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Adult Swim :
[adult swim] action :
General Action Discussion :
Big Fans of Big O!
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Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 1 of 519
Viewed 9,868 times
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Like you,I haven't seen any episodes in advance. I have, however, gotten the impression from a few others out there that they have. In fact whatever it was that I read was a very veiled, but very definite spoiler for me. It really depressed me and I'm afraid to repeat it, because I think they are right. If you want me to tell you what they implied I will.
Given all that, I have this opinion. A good writer can fix any problem, can change, improve, redirect, or CONTINUE any story. Even a bad writer can, it just won't be very good. And, YES, I, too, want more. However, as has elsewhere been pointed out, even if Cartoon Network finances more and the animation studio agrees, there's going to be a looong turnaround time. Unless, the third season has actually been completed, which doesn't seem possible. Everybody in the know (which I am not)talks like Season 2 is all there is. Let's cross our fingers and toes!
Edited 10/1/2003 8:51:44 AM ET by vtanne
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10-01-2003 03:46 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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Praedo
SwimFan
Posts: 651
Registered: 08-12-2003
Message 2 of 519
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62933
Well people, I havent seen episodes n advance, but I will tell you what I saw when I examined the memories. I saw wars between the hordes of Big O's and the huge electric snake things. And remember it was a paradime city scientist who had part of the memories on how to crete these behemoths. I think (Possible Spoiler) that Rodger was in the war and realized it would never end and if it did the winning side would be just as decimated. The world would end. So then he and paradime city lone scientists got together and released a memory erasing drug into the air. He put imself into a position to pilot Big O when he lost his memories by obviously being near it. He knew that eventualy some ppl would get memories back and attack the city. Big O was there to defend the last bastion of advanced civilization on the world. I think in the end he will either give everyone back their memories or take them all away again.
Life Know what you want. Decide what you want most. Then go get it. -Praedo
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10-01-2003 04:15 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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Zopwx2
SwimWarrior
Posts: 3230
Registered: 07-16-2003
Message 9 of 519
Viewed 9,860 times
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Reply to R.I.P.brakman
- Message ID#: 62939
#### you, if you dont like big o why do you go out of your way to be a jack ####.
Edited 10/1/2003 7:17:44 PM ET by Zopwx2
I've been to the surface and nothing is there.
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10-02-2003 02:16 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 13 of 519
Viewed 9,860 times
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Reply to R.I.P.Invoker27
- Message ID#: 62940
Well, just on a generational or age basis, it seems more likely that Alex's father, Gordon, would be a better candidate: he was in his prime 40 years ago. . .but I think it's too obvious to be him, although he is involved. Gordon Rosewater seems to retain enough (I think he has all)his memories to keep Roger on a tight leash. His "tomatoes" keep torturing Roger. He never gives Roger a straight answer (kinda like the show) but, instead, keeps stirring things up. For instance, he mocked Roger about not even remembering the contract that he was supposed to be negotiating for him. Maybe it is Gordon, but, like I said, that seems way too obvious. There could be a Monk yet to make an appearnce.
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10-02-2003 02:45 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 14 of 519
Viewed 9,860 times
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Reply to R.I.P.Anlushac11
- Message ID#: 62938
Oohh. It's very interesting and appropriate that you used the word "Soul", considering how much religious symbolisim there is in this show. That's what led me to call the war that decimated the world as we know it a Holy War.
Think about it? A character called "Angel"; satellites that fall to earth being thought of as angels; the monk that trains the "striped" children (does anyone else feel that this little club looks exclusively male?); an episode about a holiday that was a twisted version of Xmas; a title for the pilot of the Megadueces', Dominus, that reeks of religion; and, the clincher, "Cast in the Name of God, Ye Not Guilty." Did I miss any?
That brings up another question. When Alex Rosewater thought that Big O had shutdown on Roger, he said, "So, does that make you another rotten Tomato, Roger Smith?"
So does that make Alex a rotten tomato? His message in Big Fau read only "Cast in the Name of God Ye Not."?
Is a rotten tomato someone who isn't "striped", barcoded, trained, to pilot a Big O? Or is it someone on the "wrong" side in the holy war?
Edited 10/2/2003 8:13:16 AM ET by vtanne
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10-02-2003 03:04 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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Zopwx2
SwimWarrior
Posts: 3230
Registered: 07-16-2003
Message 17 of 519
Viewed 9,860 times
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Reply to R.I.P.EricSeyz
- Message ID#: 62948
that dragon was a genetically engineered creature created with the remains of the one killed in episode 3. They were using it to create energy to ressurect fau. Vera from the union set off a bomb and set it free. It electricuted roger and bigo, then he had some more flashbacks and unknowingly activated some new attack.
I've been to the surface and nothing is there.
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10-03-2003 02:11 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.Eji
SwimWeakling
Posts: 147
Registered: 06-17-2003
Message 18 of 519
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62944
LOL, no they're not brother and sister. That would be awful. I'm just saying that I think people are hoping to see more than they're actually going to see.
I dunno if CN would try to push its ideas onto the production of a third season. They might ask if some things are going to happen, but it seems more likely that they'll just oversee the results without too much interference.
As to why Big O's more popular here, I'm not sure. Sometimes I wonder if it's the same with Bebop... I mean, that show is CRAZY popular over here, and I'm curious if it's nearly as fan-crazed over there.
It probably has something to do with the overall design. I know it's a despised comparison for some people, but you can't deny the Batman-esque tones... at least in the first season, anyway. It seems a bit more westernized than some anime series, and makes a very smooth transition to english-speaking viewers. There's no japanese cultural elements (like Inuyasha or Kenshin) that have to be explained, and the setting itself seems like, as many have stated already, a New York style city. No japanese on signs (from what I can remember), and American-looking environments and mentalities abound. I think the whole design just lends itself to be more readily accepted over here.
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10-03-2003 05:58 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 19 of 519
Viewed 9,860 times
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Reply to R.I.P.Eji
- Message ID#: 62950
I think you're partially right--for the most part, the animes that get so popular over here just seem 'less Japanese', in animation, in style, in subject material, etc. There's just not much about Big O, Trigun, or Cowboy Bebop that seems inherently foreign to us, except the occasional Japanese sign, and the characters don't look or act Japanese at all.
They also seem to be less 'cute'. Japanese (esp. Japanese girls, which make up a substantial portion of anime viewers in Japan) seem to love everything small and cute; even their Cokes are smaller over there. InuYasha's very cute, not to mention the little juvenile romances thrown in there (another thing they love), thus it's extremely popular in Japan. Now, if you could combine cute and mecha, that would slay the whole d*mn country. =D
...man, it's already Friday?? *drool* Big Oooooo....
[FYI, I used to be nonattanutta. Changed my name cause I found out I was spelling it wrong...heh...]
Edited 10/3/2003 12:13:11 PM ET by hydrophilic
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-03-2003 07:12 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 21 of 519
Viewed 9,859 times
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Reply to R.I.P.Eji
- Message ID#: 62950
Bingo! I think that has a lot to do with it. I'm not well versed in Manga, but I think that Big O does have nothing but a western slant.
I just wonder, however, if American demand for a third season (if we would be fortunate enough to get it), would eventually draw the Japanese audience to reconsider? Ya' know, kinda like a write-in tv campaign here that saves a show which, in turn, becomes a cultural icon. That's the way it happened for original Star Trek. Look how long it it took for a broader audience to catch on.
No, I agree that CN wouldn't dictate story to the animator's. I just was going on and on and on, ad nasuem, about my hope that Dorothy and Roger get together. It would be a crying shame if they don't.
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10-03-2003 07:55 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 23 of 519
Viewed 9,859 times
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Reply to Swordfish_II
- Message ID#: 62952
Really??
I watched a few episodes on the Late Night Run when it was on, and it didn't seem cute at all...kinda dry, actually. Or, I donno, maybe that was Gundam something else. Anyway, how did it do in Japan?
vtanne: I feel exactly the same. They've just done way too much to make their relationship an issue for it not to be one. That's what I don't get about a lot of anime--the creators know exactly what the fans want, because they're the ones who set it up to make us anticipate it, and yet it seems like the majority of the time they don't give it to them. I can see the logic in that as a hook to keep people watching, but at the end of the series I say why not make the fans happy?? Maybe then they'll be more inclined to buy the DVDs, you know? For example, I might would have bought Berserk if it hadn't ended the way it did. I think I'll buy Big O either way, but dammit, I'm still going to b*tch about it...
Edited 10/3/2003 2:53:14 PM ET by hydrophilic
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-03-2003 09:51 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 27 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.guitargirl
- Message ID#: 62958
Yes, you are entitled to your own opinion. But, have you watched the show from episode one? It is intiguing, complex, romantic,(artistically) well-rendered and FUNNY. The thing is you ABSOLUTELY have to watch in order from the beginning. That's what bothers me about CN saying to bring friends on board to hike the ratings to get a third season.
To do so is a disservice to the show and the new viewer, because without having seen each and every previous show, it would be impossible to like, appreciate, follow, or understand anything.
So, I ask again, have you given the show a fair chance? If you watched episode #1 and #2 and still weren't hooked, then, I would say it just wasn't your cup of tea.
Why do you call it crap?
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10-04-2003 11:21 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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Zopwx2
SwimWarrior
Posts: 3230
Registered: 07-16-2003
Message 29 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.guitargirl
- Message ID#: 62958
how come big o is the only show that has random people saying it ####?
I've been to the surface and nothing is there.
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10-04-2003 11:47 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 33 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62959
Ah, I'm not sure about that...
while it's definitely preferable to have seen it from the beginning, I know for a fact it isn't a necessary prerequisite for enjoying the show--one, because I missed like the first 6 or 7 episodes when I first watched Season 1, but a single episode got me hooked and I watched religiously from there, and two, because I convinced a co-worker to tune in last Sunday and he loved it, never having even heard of it before.
I think maybe you just have to have a peculiar combination of traits to appreciate Big O...you gotta enjoy a mystery, and you gotta be down with the dark element, and the robots, and it helps if you're a little bit of a romantic too. Or, you could just have mad luv for the eyebrows...oooh, those eyebrows. ; )
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-05-2003 03:47 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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DavidLucas
SwimMoonlighter
Posts: 14616
Registered: 07-10-2003
Message 34 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.hydrophilic
- Message ID#: 62965
Dastun and Angel are brother/sister. That girl he shot in Ep. 8 was his other sister.
DavidLucas
"I used to be a god. But then a committee organized me into an expensive computer program, and that surely did me in."
Hi
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10-05-2003 04:02 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 35 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to DavidLucas
- Message ID#: 62966
whaaaat? where do you get that from?
(you're not spoiling, are you?!?)
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-05-2003 04:04 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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DavidLucas
SwimMoonlighter
Posts: 14616
Registered: 07-10-2003
Message 36 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.hydrophilic
- Message ID#: 62967
Not spoiling in the least, this was actually discussed awhile ago, and I'm just getting my info from that (it makes sense, their mother was that old movie actor, and that's why the chick he killed looked like her, and he was very sad).
DavidLucas
"All your base are belong to us."
Hi
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10-05-2003 04:05 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 38 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to Flutter
- Message ID#: 62964
I agree that there's definitely a connection between Dastun and Angel. However, I just quickly read over some of the later postings on this topic and they are boggling my mind. I need to re-read, digest, and answer them because they are proposing that Dastun and Angel are brother and sister?
I think where I'm getting lost is in the memory flashbacks. Because each person THEN (40 years ago) is portrayed by today's counterpart, I keep thinking of them as who they are today and not who they were then. . .Now, I really am confused?!! I interpreted of all of Dastun's memories in the epidode where he shot the Union spy, who I thought resembled Angel, to be "flashfowards", more like premonitions, than memories. This event happened NOW; not then. So how could he remember what hadn't yet happened?
SOMEBODY HELP ME REMEMBER: DIDN'T ALEX ROSEWATER MAKE A COMMENT THAT "THINGS OF THE PAST ALWAYS AFFECT THE FUTURE" WHEN HE KNEW ABOUT THE FALLING SATELLITE BECASUE OF THE ANDROID SENATOR'S DISK OF MEMORIES? I'M NOT EVEN SURE OF WHAT I'M TRYING TO TIE TOGETHER. . .Please, hellllp mmeee!!!
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10-05-2003 10:40 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 39 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to R.I.P.hydrophilic
- Message ID#: 62965
Yeah, Roger has nice brows, but the rest of him ain't bad either. Too bad he's taken. By R. Dorothy!
Which episode did you initially catch? Was it the "cat created from the kid" episode 'cause that one really was outstanding. (Gee, that phrase sounded awfully cold hearted).
I guess, having been fortunate enough to catch the recent repeat of Season One that directly led into this original airing of Season Two, I have real sympathy for anyone who doesn't get to experience the entire Series unfold from the beginning. Because it is so VERRYY complex there is no way to recap the story, say like they do in Inuyasha to bring new viewers up to speed on the Kikiyo/Naruku/Shikon Jewel saga. I'm glad your friend likes the show, and proves to me that you can come on board late and still LOVE it!
I know I'll catch flak for saying this, but could the most important trait for enjoying the show be intelligence? Or, maybe, it's that peculiar mix of traits that you listed? I have most of them, emphsis on the peculiar. (I just insulted my own self.)
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10-05-2003 11:00 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 40 of 519
Viewed 9,858 times
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Reply to DavidLucas
- Message ID#: 62966
I really wish I had a copy of Season One to review, instead I have to rely on my spotty memories (Pun intended?). Seriously, I interpreted that semi-bizarre episode differently. The bizarre aspect is: when Dastun sat in the movie theatre watching a "foriegn" film, which symbolized the "foriegness" of the lady in the front row with the red balloon --- which we have come to learn is one way the Union signals between members --- whom I thought looked-like/was Angel(?), it seemed to me more like he witnessed the events of tracking down and shooting the assassin beforehand?! But that shoots down my theory of Dastun being connected, possibly romantically, with Angel because, if you carry my line of thinking to it's conclusion, then Dastun shot Angel on the bridge and she is very much alive.
Unless you bring up the issue of people/androids having twins? Because R.D. was R. Dorothy's evil counterpart, wasn't she? And was the Dorothy MD, then, their virtual triplet?
There is also the entire issue of WHO is behind the plot to murder all the 20 something's who had the implanted 40 year-old memories? I guess this same plot extended to destroying all of the higher-order androids like R. Dorothy. The question is why, why, why???
I'm now experiencing a psychotic breakdown. Somebody, give me some pills.
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10-05-2003 11:25 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 42 of 519
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62971
I wouldn't say intelligence is necessarily a prerequisite, as I've seen the occasional dingbat on paradigm-city.com's forums, but there's definitely a strong correlation.
To be honest, I don't remember what episode it was that I saw first...I know it wasn't the cat one; it might have been the one immediately after that. I still haven't seen that one, actually, but I've read the script of it.
Has anyone read the manga? I just wonder why Roger's so much skinnier in it. Which came first?
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-05-2003 10:22 PM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.vtanne
SwimWeakling
Posts: 315
Registered: 09-09-2003
Message 46 of 519
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62976
Well, "Twisted Memories" certainly was a wild ride! Few answers, only more questions...not in order of importance.
#1 The apparent patricide of Gordon Rosewater by Alex: I once posed the color scheme of the Big's, Roger/Big O in black, and Alex/Fau in white, yet, now, in this episode, there was indisputably a physical resemblence between Gordon/Alex/&Fau. So does that same arguement (of physical resemblance) carry over to Roger/BigO? Also, wasn't Michael Zabach, alias Schwarvald, (nearly) murdered by fire?
#2 Dorothy spake so, "I am not like the robots or Roger. I will have this body, this heart forever." Meaning. . .What? That she will age/die like a mortal, while he (his memories) will get incarnated into another him, again and again? 3# The duel between Alan Gabriel and Vera of the Union. (Apparently)she won. Afterwards, Alex had a red stain on his white face, like a bloodstain; she lived to taunt Roger. Only, after the one bullet exploded, they cut to the red balloon. Now I'm not so sure that this is a Union signal. Vera used a rocket to contact her "hitherto unseen" compatriots. (To be continued. . .) as time allows. Angel! Angel!
Edited 10/9/2003 6:52:16 PM ET by vtanne
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10-07-2003 03:56 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.hydrophilic
SwimRookie
Posts: 523
Registered: 10-03-2003
Message 48 of 519
Viewed 9,857 times
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62978
I like this thread...it's reassuring to know that other intelligent people sit around and puzzle over a cartoon. XD
OK, I'm mad confused about the burning farm. Who did it? Why? And how do you know??? I felt like I was doing pretty good up until that point...*sigh*
As for Dorothy's statement, I don't know what she meant by saying she wasn't like the robots (what robots? the megadeuses?), but when she said she would have the same body/heart forever, wow--that could be interpreted in so many ways, in the context of what was going on. It could be her way of saying her existing as a human was pointless and if this (what Rosewater needs her for) is her role then she's resigned to it...or she could be subtly saying "don't love me/care so much for me Roger, we're too different"...I also think it was significant that she referred to herself as having a heart (=emotions), which to me is pretty much the nail in the coffin for any ambiguity over her being in love with Roger...gah!! my head hurts. No matter what the nuances, I think it was meant to call attention to the innate contrast between her and Roger, and to the fact that she's also unique among machines. The point? *shrugs* good question.
~~~Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because, what IS that thing?~~~
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10-07-2003 04:44 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.shorteynick
SwimMonkey
Posts: 1347
Registered: 09-24-2003
Message 49 of 519
Viewed 9,857 times
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62933
I sadly can't answer any of your questions,but I do agree with you Big O is a great show.
AIM:shorteynick
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10-07-2003 04:48 AM
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Re: Big Fans of Big O!
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R.I.P.NotAsleep
SwimWeakling
Posts: 50
Registered: 08-11-2003
Message 50 of 519
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Reply to R.I.P.vtanne
- Message ID#: 62978
Riddles, riddles, and more riddles. Gotta love this show.
#1: Wasn't Vera wounded and bleeding from an abdominal wound after the duel? It looked like she was clutching her stomach the way Annie did in Bebop, and I thought I saw a bloodstain. But it was in a dark tunnel, so I'm not sure. Anybody else see it? That could be where Alan's bloodstain came from, too.
#2: Time scale. Exactly how old are each of the major characters? Roger and Angel look like they can't be much older than 35, tops. Roger looks to be in his 20s when he was in the MP, and Angel looks younger than Roger. Dastun has that scar, and looks to be in about his 40s. Rosewater the Younger has the gray hair and facial lines of a man in his late 40s/early 50s. I'd bet that he might be the tall kid in the Tomatoes Class Reunion, if we're limited to the major heavies already shown. I honestly wonder who may have been old enough to have lost *any* of their own memories, and who may be just getting memories from someone else.
#3: Out of curiosity, is there anyone who's read any alternate history? Or perhaps Stephen King's The Dark Tower books? We have, as previously pointed out, a city that has a lot of geography and place-names in common with our New York City (Could that central dome have been held up by the Empire State Building, that got cut down by Big Fau?). But the flashback looked like a stylized NYC from the late 1950s or early 60s. Could this "incident" from "40 years ago" have been in our equivalent of the 70s or 80s, where instead of Stealth Bombers and ICBMs, humanity develops Deus-es? Now to tie into TDT: Instead of a Captain Trips superflu in one of the infinite possibilities going out and killing everybody, this one has "the incident" and time kinda stands still for a while while we rebuild in one of the last bastions of civilization? If you read the
*Spoilers*
CN provided, where can Rosewater go after leaving Paradigm? Except back to that time, or an unaffected timeline? Did he and/or Roger maybe cause The Incident?
*End Spoiler*
I really hope that they eventually answer that question, whether Paradigm is a renamed NYC or if it's like Metropolis or Gotham.
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10-07-2003 09:35 AM
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