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Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62946566


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Josey wrote:

It was always kind of funny that Hitchens would always invoke the ghost of Orwell when he was trying to spread fear of Muslims. Considering most are now the surveillance states that actively seek endless wars (the War on Terror provides that), it sounds like he was getting things backwards. The hundreds of thousands of deaths due to the agenda he cheerleaded against brown people of a different religion were apparently acceptable losses since he barely mentioned their plight.

 

His character assassination of Mother Teresa who actually helped people seemed pretty pointless as well. Most of it was speculation that she was only helping people for sainthood ... though, as long as she alieved suffering, I don't see as to even why that would matter.


What did he say about her that was so bad?


His book "The Missionary Position" was pretty much a long attack on Mother Teresa ... basically, for practicing Catholic teaching and holding Catholic belief. That and his whole argument is that her life was just one big campaign for sainthood ... which is apparently something that negates all the good she did.

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Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
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Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62947714


Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Josey wrote:

It was always kind of funny that Hitchens would always invoke the ghost of Orwell when he was trying to spread fear of Muslims. Considering most are now the surveillance states that actively seek endless wars (the War on Terror provides that), it sounds like he was getting things backwards. The hundreds of thousands of deaths due to the agenda he cheerleaded against brown people of a different religion were apparently acceptable losses since he barely mentioned their plight.

 

His character assassination of Mother Teresa who actually helped people seemed pretty pointless as well. Most of it was speculation that she was only helping people for sainthood ... though, as long as she alieved suffering, I don't see as to even why that would matter.


What did he say about her that was so bad?


His book "The Missionary Position" was pretty much a long attack on Mother Teresa ... basically, for practicing Catholic teaching and holding Catholic belief. That and his whole argument is that her life was just one big campaign for sainthood ... which is apparently something that negates all the good she did.


oh how horrible

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Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62947848


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

oh how horrible


What does Hitchens leave behind that rivals the impact that Zinn, Teresa, Chomsky or even PJ O'Rourke made on humanitarian or intellectual grounds then?

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Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62948298


Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

oh how horrible


What does Hitchens leave behind that rivals the impact that Zinn, Teresa, Chomsky or even PJ O'Rourke made on humanitarian or intellectual grounds then?


Wow, I really need a cup of coffee before I start posting. Sorry GS, I believe my point was that most of Hitchens' output was character attacks on people who disagreed with him. Now that he's dead, it's kind of silly to me to say he shouldn't bring on the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But really, I just like seeing the OP get angry and go into long diatribes.

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Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62948298


Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

oh how horrible


What does Hitchens leave behind that rivals the impact that Zinn, Teresa, Chomsky or even PJ O'Rourke made on humanitarian or intellectual grounds then?


Did I say anything?

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
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Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62948392


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Did I say anything?


Yes, you just didn't type it. But I'm an excellent reader of what you didn't type but were even if you didn't know you were going to.

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railroadengine
Posts: 42,508
Registered: ‎07-10-2006
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Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 62927690

True.

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Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62948462


Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Did I say anything?


Yes, you just didn't type it. But I'm an excellent reader of what you didn't type but were even if you didn't know you were going to.


Wow, impressive! What did I mean?

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
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Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003
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Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62923416


Josey wrote:

Christopher Hitchens did have the right opinion of Pinochet and Kissinger, who he called a war criminal, which kind of made his full-hearted support of the Bush Administration kind head-scratching, especially after the framework for an Oceania-type state was set.

 

He did at least change his opinion on waterboarding in the end, so maybe he would've changed some of his other opinions as well. No telling.


I'll say he did take the right view mostly in the Israel-Palestine conflict, but still his cheerleading for the Iraq War essentially made me lose any sort of desire to read anything he wrote.

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Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003
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Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62948508


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Did I say anything?


Yes, you just didn't type it. But I'm an excellent reader of what you didn't type but were even if you didn't know you were going to.


Wow, impressive! What did I mean?


That you want eggs over easy, even though it's lunch time.

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Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
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Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62948552


Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Josey wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Did I say anything?


Yes, you just didn't type it. But I'm an excellent reader of what you didn't type but were even if you didn't know you were going to.


Wow, impressive! What did I mean?


That you want eggs over easy, even though it's lunch time.


Ewww, no! I hate eggs over-easy. Make mine scrambled!

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62948298

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of **beast**. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Hell's Minions
ShowUsYourTaint
Posts: 13,671
Registered: ‎11-07-2005
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

[ Edited ]

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62948656

There's one reason why I didn't care much for Hitchens, he misread that quote and basically acted little better than the pundits on tv in ascribing a false meaning to it.

Cast off this taint, and become taintless
Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to ShowUsYourTaint - Message ID#: 62948688


ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

There's one reason why I didn't care much for Hitchens, he misread that quote and basically acted little better than the pundits on tv in ascribing a false meaning to it.


How did he misread that? It's a basic tenant of Catholicism.

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Hell's Minions
ShowUsYourTaint
Posts: 13,671
Registered: ‎11-07-2005
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

[ Edited ]

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62948832


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

There's one reason why I didn't care much for Hitchens, he misread that quote and basically acted little better than the pundits on tv in ascribing a false meaning to it.


How did he misread that? It's a basic tenant of Catholicism.


It doesn't mean what he thought it meant, she was basically saying that the poor make the world a better place by their perserverance in the face of hardship.  Hitchens interpreted it as her saying she basically likes that the poor are poor and secretly wants them to stay that way.  It's clearly misread.  Then he wrote a book about it.

Cast off this taint, and become taintless
Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to ShowUsYourTaint - Message ID#: 62949032


ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

There's one reason why I didn't care much for Hitchens, he misread that quote and basically acted little better than the pundits on tv in ascribing a false meaning to it.


How did he misread that? It's a basic tenant of Catholicism.


It doesn't mean what he thought it meant, she was basically saying that the poor make the world a better place by their perserverance in the face of hardship.  Hitchens interpreted it as her saying she basically likes that the poor are poor and secretly wants them to stay that way.  It's clearly misread.  Then he wrote a book about it.


No, he got it right.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=catholics+suffering+is+good&ie=ut
f-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:e...:smileysurprised:

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Hell's Minions
ShowUsYourTaint
Posts: 13,671
Registered: ‎11-07-2005

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

[ Edited ]

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 62949306

No, that's still not right.  I know that catholics believe suffering is redemptive, but it is redemptive for the reason I just outlined.  It's not because they just want people to suffer as Hitchens tried to paint it, it's basically saying that suffering builds character.   Because suffering does build character.  People who have everything handed to them on a silver platter tend to not be very good people because they were never challenged.

Cast off this taint, and become taintless
Laughing Clown
Josey
Posts: 7,570
Registered: ‎08-31-2003

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to westpark - Message ID#: 62923334

This is actually pretty spot on about Hitchens, his disregard for actual human beings and his facist outlook:

 

Part of this is explained by the fact that Hitchens — like other long-time media figures, such as Tim Russert — had personal interactions with huge numbers of media figures who are shaping how he is remembered in death. That’s understandable: it’s difficult for any human being to ignore personal feelings, and it’s even more difficult in the face of the tragic death of a vibrant person at a much younger age than is normal.

But for the public at large, at least those who knew of him, Hitchens was an extremely controversial, polarizing figure. And particularly over the last decade, he expressed views — not ancillary to his writings but central to them — that were nothing short of repellent.

 

Corey Robin wrote that “on the announcement of his death, I think it’s fair to allow Christopher Hitchens to do the things he loved to do most: speak for himself,” and then assembled two representative passages from Hitchens’ post-9/11 writings. In the first, Hitchens celebrated the ability of cluster bombs to penetrate through a Koran that a Muslim may be carrying in his coat pocket  (“those steel pellets will go straight through somebody and out the other side and through somebody else. So they won’t be able to say, ‘Ah, I was bearing a Koran over my heart and guess what, the missile stopped halfway through.’ No way, ’cause it’ll go straight through that as well. They’ll be dead, in other words”), and in the second, Hitchens explained that his reaction to the 9/11 attack was “exhilaration” because it would unleash an exciting, sustained war against what he came addictively to call “Islamofascism”: “I realized that if the battle went on until the last day of my life, I would never get bored in prosecuting it to the utmost.”

 

***

 

Hitchens was obviously more urbane and well-written than the average neocon faux-warrior, but he was also often more vindictive and barbaric about his war cheerleading. One of the only writers with the courage to provide the full picture of Hitchens upon his death was Gawker‘s John Cook, who — in an extremely well-written and poignant obituary – detailed Hitchens’ vehement, unapologetic passion for the attack on Iraq and his dismissive indifference to the mass human suffering it caused, accompanied by petty contempt for those who objected (he denounced the Dixie Chicks as being “**beast**” and “**beast** fat slags” for the crime of mildly disparaging the Commander-in-Chief). As Cook put it: “it must not be forgotten in mourning him that he got the single most consequential decision in his life horrifically, petulantly wrong”; indeed: “People make mistakes. What’s horrible about Hitchens’ ardor for the invasion of Iraq is that he clung to it long after it became clear that a grotesque error had been made.”

 

***

 

That’s precisely true. The blood on his hands — and on the hands of those who played an even greater, more direct role in all of this totally unjustified killing of innocents — is supposed to be ignored because he was an accomplished member in good standing of our media and political class. It’s a way the political and media class protects and celebrates itself: our elite members are to be heralded and their victims forgotten.

 

Read the whole thing here: http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/christohper_hitchens_and_the_prot
ocol_for_public_figure_deaths/singl...

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Candy Thief
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 25,406
Registered: ‎09-17-2003
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62956860

That was an excellent article.

 

Why do I keep hearing this every time I see this thread title?


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We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
Scaredy Cat
Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 62917554

The ghouls’ new game

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
Creepy Doll
westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

[ Edited ]

Reply to ShowUsYourTaint - Message ID#: 62949032


ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

ShowUsYourTaint wrote:

There's one reason why I didn't care much for Hitchens, he misread that quote and basically acted little better than the pundits on tv in ascribing a false meaning to it.


How did he misread that? It's a basic tenant of Catholicism.


It doesn't mean what he thought it meant, she was basically saying that the poor make the world a better place by their perserverance in the face of hardship.  Hitchens interpreted it as her saying she basically likes that the poor are poor and secretly wants them to stay that way.  It's clearly misread.  Then he wrote a book about it.


Well, yeah, that's what you do when you're a faux-intellectual self-righteous **noel** who doesn't want to work an honest job with his hands. You go around babbling about stupid **noel** & blasting people who do good for humanity. I remember hearing something about Mother Theresa -- that she wouldn't even take in the sick. You had to be the sick of the sick. Even if you don't believe in a higher power -- you gotta admit the woman was a walking saint. He attacked her mainly for shock value, he wanted to sell books, because he didn't want to work an honest job. But anybody who can go out of their way to character-assassinate a woman who gave up what could have been quite a nice life in Rome or in some European or American Catholic college chose instead to live in semi-squalor in the middle of disease-ridden Indian slums, feeding & caring for the starving & dying. I mean after doing that -- had she requested it I'm sure Rome would have moved her to a city somewhere, Rome, Berlin, Paris, New York. Probably anywhere to live in a nice church-owned condo like most priests here do....but no, she chose instead to live among lepers & cripples.

 

I saw him sitting around drinking pricey aged-scotch & eating lobster dinners in London & NYC -- sitting atop his pompous pedestal, preaching about how the most selfless & humble of people are really the moral equivalent to Hitler or Stalin.

 

To me the man wasn't even a blowhard, that's being too nice. He was a professional troll, who wrote 500 page diatribes against selfless people who help the poor, ill, & decrepit, while living the high-life in the west, instead of slogging thru the trenches like the true good people do. The guy wasn't even a troll, he was pure vermin. He was pure vermin who got a pass because some atheists liked the way he made fun of organized religion or how he made generalized attacks on asswipes like Kim Jong Il or Saddam or talked nonsensically about how freedom was good or other common sense/commonly-held positions.

 

He was a complete & total dumbfuuuuuudge who called out the best in humanity because he professionally smeared the worst of humanity & ran out of targets. And being the opportunist p.o.s. he was -- began to see villains where there were none. He had to create boogeymen out of nothing -- or else hey -- his racket would have been over no?

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

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Creepy Doll
westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
0

Re: Christopher Hitchens is dead

Reply to Josey - Message ID#: 62956860


Josey wrote:

This is actually pretty spot on about Hitchens, his disregard for actual human beings and his facist outlook:

 

Part of this is explained by the fact that Hitchens — like other long-time media figures, such as Tim Russert — had personal interactions with huge numbers of media figures who are shaping how he is remembered in death. That’s understandable: it’s difficult for any human being to ignore personal feelings, and it’s even more difficult in the face of the tragic death of a vibrant person at a much younger age than is normal.

But for the public at large, at least those who knew of him, Hitchens was an extremely controversial, polarizing figure. And particularly over the last decade, he expressed views — not ancillary to his writings but central to them — that were nothing short of repellent.

 

Corey Robin wrote that “on the announcement of his death, I think it’s fair to allow Christopher Hitchens to do the things he loved to do most: speak for himself,” and then assembled two representative passages from Hitchens’ post-9/11 writings. In the first, Hitchens celebrated the ability of cluster bombs to penetrate through a Koran that a Muslim may be carrying in his coat pocket  (“those steel pellets will go straight through somebody and out the other side and through somebody else. So they won’t be able to say, ‘Ah, I was bearing a Koran over my heart and guess what, the missile stopped halfway through.’ No way, ’cause it’ll go straight through that as well. They’ll be dead, in other words”), and in the second, Hitchens explained that his reaction to the 9/11 attack was “exhilaration” because it would unleash an exciting, sustained war against what he came addictively to call “Islamofascism”: “I realized that if the battle went on until the last day of my life, I would never get bored in prosecuting it to the utmost.”

 

***

 

Hitchens was obviously more urbane and well-written than the average neocon faux-warrior, but he was also often more vindictive and barbaric about his war cheerleading. One of the only writers with the courage to provide the full picture of Hitchens upon his death was Gawker‘s John Cook, who — in an extremely well-written and poignant obituary – detailed Hitchens’ vehement, unapologetic passion for the attack on Iraq and his dismissive indifference to the mass human suffering it caused, accompanied by petty contempt for those who objected (he denounced the Dixie Chicks as being “**beast**” and “**beast** fat slags” for the crime of mildly disparaging the Commander-in-Chief). As Cook put it: “it must not be forgotten in mourning him that he got the single most consequential decision in his life horrifically, petulantly wrong”; indeed: “People make mistakes. What’s horrible about Hitchens’ ardor for the invasion of Iraq is that he clung to it long after it became clear that a grotesque error had been made.”

 

***

 

That’s precisely true. The blood on his hands — and on the hands of those who played an even greater, more direct role in all of this totally unjustified killing of innocents — is supposed to be ignored because he was an accomplished member in good standing of our media and political class. It’s a way the political and media class protects and celebrates itself: our elite members are to be heralded and their victims forgotten.

 

Read the whole thing here: http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/christohper_hitchens_and_the_prot
ocol_for_public_figure_deaths/singl...


I stand by my assessment of him. I think he was just a sad old fart & opportunist who ran out of targets to write books on & make a living on. When the Soviet Union fell -- who was left? You can only criticize so many international boogeymen like the Chicoms or Saddam or bin Laden or Muslim nutjobs or the far-right wackos so many times before you run out of topics of books or articles. He was a lazy bum & scum of the earth who was too cowardly to fight in the wars he promoted & too lazy & selfish to go help the poor who were cared for by the walking saints(in the secular ethical sense, not any religious concept) of our day who selflessly give up the good life in the west to help those who most people wouldn't even spit on.

 

And with somebody with an ego like that -- they attract smaller 'ego flies' like taverna. But srsly -- with an ego like that -- he couldn't stand not being different. It was chic by the 70s/80s/90s to attack communist dictators, human rights violators, civil rights violators/right-wing kooks/blah blah. He had run out of people to smear & so instead of going like other liberals did -- he branched off into nutjob land & started advocating for the forcible removal of dictators & other crap like that.

 

So instead of going to Africa or India & helping out the poor like Mother Theresa did -- he sits back in his condo, smokes cigars & romances hookers, while a frail old arthritic feeds soup to peasants dying of TB & AIDS.

 

I'm not trying to be cute or cheeky when I say this but I really truly don't think the word 'scum' even can cover it. This is beyond that. The guy died in the lap of luxury with millions in the bank & a  thousand dollar bottle of scotch @ the table side. I'm sure the hookers & fangirls were around til the very end as well.

 

And he has the nerve not to make comments -- not even to write a stupid  column -- but a whole fuuuuuudgein book? Vermin comes to mind but I"m sure there are worse words out there. I wouldn't put him in the same category as Kim Jong Il as he never actually killed anybody but this guy was pure vile vermin.

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery