Babbling

[Gaius_Sextus]

Under the new definitions of rape, or, hell, under any definition of rape, would a forced vaginal ultrasound probe be considered rape?

[Glodson]

While I wouldn't go as far to call it rape, it certainly is an invasion and a perversion of what an ultrasound is meant for. It isn't meant to be a weapon wielded against women who already have a tough choice to make. It isn't meant to make a hard decision even harder because some have an objection to the procedure, the LEGAL procedure.

Maybe I would be more sympathetic to these morons if I didn't think they were morally and intellectually bankrupt, and if I thought they had a sensible solution, like increased funding for contraception and an intelligent look at sex education that included honest talks about safe sex, and the place of sex in relationships. Forget that, let's just make our angry sky wizard happy by forcing women to bow to our morality handed down from the heavens when no one was looking.

[Glodson]

Oh, I almost forgot about this: if you want boner meds, an amendment to a bill that did the same sort of thing in VA would have required men to get rectal exams.

If it had been attached, I would have made a thread about it. Sadly, it wasn't passed.

[Gaius_Sextus]

---

Glodson wrote:

Oh, I almost forgot about this: if you want boner meds, an amendment to a bill that did the same sort of thing in VA would have required men to get rectal exams.

If it had been attached, I would have made a thread about it. Sadly, it wasn't passed.

---

Ha! I was planning on posting that here next. I wonder if the same people who are for forced vaginal probes will think that is an infirngment on their privacy?

[Glodson]

They probably worry that the probing would make them gay as well.

[fugglesss]

huh? how is the vaginal sonogram being forced??

i was told it has to be used during early pregnancy to see the wee little bugger hiding waaay up in there?

w-w-was i lied to??

*begins to have peter griffin moment*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSWOpUcYTo

[Buddyroe360]

Hmmmmmm, this may turn out very well *sits backwards in chair, and smiles*

[GiantMegaDoucheX]

---

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Under the new definitions of rape, or, hell, under any definition of rape, would a forced vaginal ultrasound probe be considered rape?

---

A "forced vaginal ultrasound".

When women go to get an ultrasound done, it typically isn't 'forced'.

[4-HBabe]

It looks like this is related to anti-abortion legislation requiring a woman to receive a vaginal ultrasound within one hour of a planned abortion and forced to look at the picture of the embryo before being allowed to have the abortion.

This procedure is clearly not medically necessary or wanted by the patient. Further, it counts as coercion and physical abuse all to try and bully a woman into not having a legal medical procedure. 

Opponents of the bill have appealed to the state supreme court to have this classified as medical rape and, therefore, outlawed.

[source]  [source]

"The Oklahoma Senate passed five abortion bills Monday night, which opponents have said will severely limit a woman's ability to get an abortion and would entail some of the strictest anti-abortion measures in the country.

One of the bills would force a woman to get an ultrasound at least one hour prior to an abortion and be shown the image and given a detailed explanation of it, even if she wishes otherwise. A vaginal probe would be used if it would provide a clearer image of the fetus, which no other state requires; three others do require ultrasounds, but none force the woman to listen to an explanation of it."

[TahoeDenver]

I think if its an absolute life or death thing, or if the doctor feels the absolute medical need for the test -- as in the patient might be mentally ill & resistant -- then like they do on House -- let them get a court order/Social Services to authorize it.

Otherwise I agree, its a violation of one's personal rights. I don't understand Republicans. They **noel** **noel** **noel** about having to pay social services to care for unwanted & abandoned children. Then they're offered a way for both the mother & the potential child to not have to worry about the issue & they strike it down.

I don't get it.

On the one hand they don't want you to have the kid & on the other they want u to have the child & then they don't want to pay for it.

I mean its this kinda clusterfuuuuuudge oxymoronic logic that's destroying that party. They don't even understand their own **noel** concepts any more.

[DoseOfLaughter]

I wouldn't call it rape......more like an extreme invasion of personal self....but, still...if a woman who was raped had to get that done to her to get rid of something that reminded her of the rape....I wouldn't feel sorry for the law makers if they spontaneously burst into flames.

[TahoeDenver]

---

DoseOfLaughter wrote:
I wouldn't call it rape......more like an extreme invasion of personal self....but, still...if a woman who was raped had to get that done to her to get rid of something that reminded her of the rape....I wouldn't feel sorry for the law makers if they spontaneously burst into flames.

---

I don't know why it would be a case of life or death as I'm not a doctor but I agree. Unless its absolutely vital to the health of the mother & they can get Social Services to verify it -- there's really no need for this law.

[4-HBabe]

It helps if you read the article. This is only being done to women who want an abortion. There is no medical relevance.

[GinaSzanboti]

---

GiantMegaDoucheX wrote:

---

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Under the new definitions of rape, or, hell, under any definition of rape, would a forced vaginal ultrasound probe be considered rape?

---

A "forced vaginal ultrasound".

When women go to get an ultrasound done, it typically isn't 'forced'.

---

It is when they're going in for an abortion and not an ultrasound.

It's especially heinous when the woman has been a rape victim, ever, whether the abortion she's seeking was a result of that or not.

There have been some challenges to these idiotic and misogynistic laws on the basis of the new rape definitions and first amendment rights (forcing doctors to give medical advice they don't believe).  Ironically, conscience laws don't seem to protect doctors from having to do this (and it's disheartening that most of these challenges and laws are more concerned with protecting the rights of health care workers than women seeking medical services).

I found this on a related site:

Just as an example, a Catholic doctor in the ER of a community hospital not affiliated with any religion and owned by the local taxpayers is protected by a law that says he cannot be fired for refusing to tell a woman with an ectopic pregnancy that she needs an abortion to remove it, while a Jewish doctor in the ER of a Catholic hospital can be fired if he tells a woman in the same circumstances that if she remains there she will have to sacrifice a tube, but if she transfers to a different hospital she can save her fertility AND her life.

Funny how 'conscience' only is important if it contributes to tricking women into becoming pregnant, cutting off their options to prevent pregnancy, forcing them to continue a pregnancy, mutilating them because their pregnancy has complications, or just outright letting them die, but a doctor wanting to follow his conscience to save their lives can be told to shut up and do what he's told.

[TahoeDenver]

---

4-HBabe wrote:

It helps if you read the article. This is only being done to women who want an abortion. There is no medical relevance.

---

i did read most of it.

I have little medical experience so I assumed they had a **noel** good reason for it.

Guess not. Thought it was a medical procedure. Then re-read parts of it & realized its a glorified way to give 'life counseling.'

[GinaSzanboti]

To answer the original question, yes, I think it's rape.

If you went to your doctor to set a broken leg (and if this doctor was the only one within 100 miles who could do this, so it's not like you can just go down the street to another one (and even if you could, they would tell you the same thing)), and doc says, "sure, but first, let me shove this up your **noel**/rectum and waggle it around a bit, and then and only then will I set your leg," would you not feel violated?  Would you not feel you had been raped?

Another excellent quote:  There is nothing more furiously insulting that someone who has no responsibility for the outcome of a decision trying to MAKE that decision for someone else.

[fugglesss]

I watched a couple of "my abortion" stories on youtube.

This really intelligent lady with an accent said that they didnt show her her ultrasound so i dont believe anyone is being forced. Altho she had to have one. They test to make sure the pregnancy is actually a pregnancy and that the baby isnt ectopic.. that means, outside the womb. Which would obviously be a huge problem if the child is going to be aborted.. well.. embryo.

I mean, if they started just giving anyone abortions and not checking them out first.. women will die, they thend be calling  FOR a law to demand ultrasounds. This is just more b.s.... i'd ignore it. wait, i will. starting now.

[fugglesss]

---

Buddyroe360 wrote:

Hmmmmmm, this may turn out very well *sits backwards in chair, and smiles*

---

!!!!!!!!!!!!

*tells self he is just gonna add it into doctor roleplaying games with the wife.. yes.. yes ..thats it*

[Buddyroe360]

I don't know or care what goes on behind that door..........If she's paying the doc to flick her bean, then more power to her.

[KnightStar]

It's like Glodson said, I wouldn't go as far as to call it rape, but an invasion and perversion is what a forced vaginal ultrasound probe is.

Something else that should be considered an invasion and perversion is having two burly male nurses shove a 12in Phallus shaped device into your colon ripping a small fissure in your anus.

I know of the second one first hand, had it done to me in March of last year. This may sound um very unmanly, but I till this day feel ashamed when I think of what they did to me during a medical procedure.

[Tempty_McHotstuff]

this is pretty disturbing in a way. i don't understand how a ultrasound can be forced on any woman, but it can't really be defined as rape. i'm quite sure the person giving the said ultrasound isn't getting pleasure from it and i'm pretty sure in most cases of abortion in any state an ultrasound is kind of mandatory. It's not only for the clinic's saftey, but yours. some clinics can only give abortions up to a certain week in pregnancy because of the many different types of abortion. they have to determine if it is a first, second, or third trimester abortion.  there's probably forms of consent that have to be signed in order to get your procedure in the first place. 

i don't think highly of abortion, but i don't think any woman should be subjected to hearing a heartbeat of a baby she doesn't even want.  it's pretty much a slap in the face to morals and ethics. 

[Saddy]

wow. texas is just so full of awesome i can't stand it.

[Saddy]

---

fugglesss wrote:

huh? how is the vaginal sonogram being forced??

i was told it has to be used during early pregnancy to see the wee little bugger hiding waaay up in there?

w-w-was i lied to??

*begins to have peter griffin moment*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSWOpUcYTo

---

it's forced because they're trying to prevent abortions being performed without the vaginal sonogram first being performed. it's absurd.

[Glodson]

---

Saddy wrote:
wow. texas is just so full of awesome i can't stand it.

---

Don't get me started...

It is like we purposefully elect the dumbest white people we can find to state government.

[Saddy]

---

Tempty_McHotstuff wrote:

this is pretty disturbing in a way. i don't understand how a ultrasound can be forced on any woman, but it can't really be defined as rape. i'm quite sure the person giving the said ultrasound isn't getting pleasure from it and i'm pretty sure in most cases of abortion in any state an ultrasound is kind of mandatory. It's not only for the clinic's saftey, but yours. some clinics can only give abortions up to a certain week in pregnancy because of the many different types of abortion. they have to determine if it is a first, second, or third trimester abortion.  there's probably forms of consent that have to be signed in order to get your procedure in the first place. 

i don't think highly of abortion, but i don't think any woman should be subjected to hearing a heartbeat of a baby she doesn't even want.  it's pretty much a slap in the face to morals and ethics. 

---

they do lmp calculations.