Babbling

[Saddy]

blue keeps trying to get me to move to texas or tennessee. i told him to have fun and i'll see him when the contract is over. i kinda feel bad cause he keeps turning down good job offers but i refuse to move to the south. no offense meant to anyone, it's just that every time i hear about insane stuff like this or insane stuff being done to kids by teachers, it's almost always in the south.

[Buddyroe360]

..............And just where might that Texas job offer be?

[Saddy]

i don't know. he just said texas and i was like, nooooooooooooooooope. so i dunno. same with tennessee and alabama.

[fugglesss]

Well they say its because that's the best way to make sure the baby is not in the wrong place. Is this a lie???

[Glodson]

The cost of living can be lower, and living closer to a large city isn't so bad. Okay, Dallas is corrupt as hell, but it isn't all bad.

But this state is as red as hell. However, things do get saner near civilization.

[Saddy]

they may be saying that's why, but this that is not the real purpose. they want to require doctors to show women the ultra sound, make the woman listen to the heartbeat and make the doctor describe the fetus to the woman in order for her to get an abortion.

[Saddy]

oh i know the cost of living is lower, but autism services in the south are horrible. and a lot of southern states don't have the same laws regarding guardianship of a disabled adult so i doubt we'll be moving anywhere near the south any time soon. we will be leaving jersey in five years or so, but most likely we'll be moving west or out of country.

[Glodson]

Yea, the South really fuuuuuudges up the simplest of things.

[fugglesss]

That's a lie. They do the ultra sound as part as the medical examination. No one is being forced to look at the ultrasound because of the exam. That maybe happening but its not a reason to skip that step

[MafiaFlood]

*FACEPALM*

I hate the idiots who try to make things like this into laws. If only THEY had been aborted instead of allowed to be born......

[4-HBabe]

"For ... many abortion and women’s health providers statewide, performing these sonogram-related actions is an affront — to patients who have thought long and hard about their decisions, and to doctors who believe they are not medically necessary. " [source]

In some cases an ultrasound is indicated, but not for the vast majority. This law requires everyone who gets an abortion to have one done. It also requires them to schedule an additional, unnecessary visit to the clinic before they can have their procedure. [source]

[Saddy]

---

fugglesss wrote:
That's a lie. They do the ultra sound as part as the medical examination. No one is being forced to look at the ultrasound because of the exam. That maybe happening but its not a reason to skip that step

---

as part of a regular ob visit, yes, but not before an abortion. and no, it's not a lie. in texas, they require that a woman have an ultra sound, that she see it, hear it, and have the fetus described to her.

[fugglesss]

All lies. Go watch actual people talk about it or watch a documentary...all they tell u is how far along because it affects how the aortion can be done. Also I had several sonograms while pregnant, never once did I "hear" anything. That's an entirely different procedure where thhey hook the baby up to listen its heart which is not part of the abortion exam

[Saddy]

---

fugglesss wrote:
All lies. Go watch actual people talk about it or watch a documentary...all they tell u is how far along because it affects how the aortion can be done. Also I had several sonograms while pregnant, never once did I "hear" anything. That's an entirely different procedure where thhey hook the baby up to listen its heart which is not part of the abortion exam

---

what?!?!? how is it a lie? i know what an ultrasound is and i know what it does. that isn't what we are talking about here. i just showed you a freaking news article telling you that it's part of the abortion procedure in TEXAS. did you actually read the article? it's the law in texas. it was just passed. a woman cannot get an abortion without having a vaginal ultrasound. she has to hear the heartbeat, see the ultrasound and the doctor has to describe the fetus. try reading the article, fuggs.

[Gaius_Sextus]

---

GiantMegaDoucheX wrote:

---

Gaius_Sextus wrote:

Under the new definitions of rape, or, hell, under any definition of rape, would a forced vaginal ultrasound probe be considered rape?

---

A "forced vaginal ultrasound".

When women go to get an ultrasound done, it typically isn't 'forced'.

---

Not usually, but what else are you going to call an un-needed, unwanted, lawfully mandated medical proceedure? What other medical proceedure do you know of that has been mandated?

[Gaius_Sextus]

---

4-HBabe wrote:

It looks like this is related to anti-abortion legislation requiring a woman to receive a vaginal ultrasound within one hour of a planned abortion and forced to look at the picture of the embryo before being allowed to have the abortion.

This procedure is clearly not medically necessary or wanted by the patient. Further, it counts as coercion and physical abuse all to try and bully a woman into not having a legal medical procedure. 

Opponents of the bill have appealed to the state supreme court to have this classified as medical rape and, therefore, outlawed.

[source]  [source]

"The Oklahoma Senate passed five abortion bills Monday night, which opponents have said will severely limit a woman's ability to get an abortion and would entail some of the strictest anti-abortion measures in the country.

One of the bills would force a woman to get an ultrasound at least one hour prior to an abortion and be shown the image and given a detailed explanation of it, even if she wishes otherwise. A vaginal probe would be used if it would provide a clearer image of the fetus, which no other state requires; three others do require ultrasounds, but none force the woman to listen to an explanation of it."

---

Yup, that's the one.

[Gaius_Sextus]

---

fugglesss wrote:
That's a lie. They do the ultra sound as part as the medical examination. No one is being forced to look at the ultrasound because of the exam. That maybe happening but its not a reason to skip that step

---

Fuggless, we are NOT talking about a regular ultrasound done during a pregnancy to make sure everything is going alright. DO try and keep up, okay? It helps if you read the links about it.

[fugglesss]

Actually we are. Those tests aren't just to check out the kid but whatever. I gotta work

[scoobdog]

This is a really tricky subject.  Regardless of what it is called, it is clearly a violation of the personal self, an act of dehumanizing an individual, but perhaps "rape" is the wrong word to convey it properly.  This is more of a desecration.

[Saddy]

---

fugglesss wrote:
Actually we are. Those tests aren't just to check out the kid but whatever. I gotta work

---

um, no. we aren't. at all.

[fugglesss]

So what exactly are u wanting to do? Cut out ultrasounds altogether? Because u know if that child is ectopic, an abortion could cause a lot of damage, right??

[KnightStar]

Fuggs you're making all our heads hurt.......

[Saddy]

---

fugglesss wrote:
So what exactly are u wanting to do? Cut out ultrasounds altogether? Because u know if that child is ectopic, an abortion could cause a lot of damage, right??

---

what are you talking about, fuggs? no one is saying that ultrasounds are bad. no one is saying that at all. i really don't know where you're getting that from. we are talking about women being FORCED to have a vaginal sonogram and being FORCED to listen to the heartbeat and being FORCED to see the images before she can have an abortion.

[Glodson]

---

fugglesss wrote:
So what exactly are u wanting to do? Cut out ultrasounds altogether? Because u know if that child is ectopic, an abortion could cause a lot of damage, right??

---

This: No, arguably, the closest medical cognate is a situation in which a patient lacks—can you guess?—the capacity to consent to or refuse treatment. Which is, of course, the rationale here. The idea is that someone seeking an abortion can’t possibly have considered the matter as thoroughly as she needs to, by virtue of having sought out an abortion in the first place. Therefore, she has to have treatment imposed by threat: either submit to a transvaginal ultrasound you may or may not want, or else lose your legal right to an abortion.

It is that the law REQUIRES a woman to get a transvaginal ultrasound should they wish to get an abortion, whether or not they want the transvaginal abortion. Whether or not the doctor needs to preform one. No one is suggesting that ultrasounds be cut out. We are objecting to the fact that it isn't a part of the abortion procedure, but rather tacked on so that a woman would be shamed and guilted into not aborting the pregnancy. It is about an attempt to eliminate a woman's choice with guilt and pressure. It is about invading a woman's privacy for the sake of another religious beliefs.

If a doctor needs to perform an ultrasound as a part of the abortion, that's one thing. That's not what the law is about. It is about requiring doctors to hammer home the pro-life idea that the pregnancy should not be terminated. As if women in this position haven't considered this.

[fugglesss]

So legislate verbal treatment, leave medical out of it. But I also implore that such dialogue is not happening on a large scale....