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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
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Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

How much is the Universe worth to you?

 

Spoiler
I submit we should quadruple Nasa's budget and push for lunar colonization, mars exploration, and research for orbital elevators. Note if you think I sound like Gingrich, that idiot's grand plan is to eliminate Nasa and let the market do this. Note, that is also how another idiot, plans to deal with the shuttle program, that idiot, is the president. Yes I called Obama an idiot, he is on this issue, deal with it. 
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

I think both the government and the market should explore space. Anyone who doesn't support NASA does not know how many technical advances started because of space exploration.

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
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Pero8P
Posts: 4,201
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
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Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 64014925


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

I think both the government and the market should explore space. Anyone who doesn't support NASA does not know how many technical advances started because of space exploration.


in that sense, nasa is a blue sky project. no sane company would invest.

"Fear me - Pero8P
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SwimHELPeR
4-HBabe
Posts: 22,915
Registered: ‎02-23-2005

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

[ Edited ]

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

"Epic space adventures plant seeds of economic growth because doing what's never been done before is intellectually seductive whether or not we deem it practical, and when you conduct those exercises innovation follows just as day follows night. And when you innovate you lead the world,  you keep your jobs, and concerns over tariffs and trade regulations evaporate.

 

The call for this adventure would echo loudly across society and down the educational pipeline. At what cost? The spending portfolio of the United States currently allocates 50 times as much money to social programs and education than it does NASA. So, to the old argument, 'why are we spending money up there and not down here,' we are spending money down here, to the credit of the law makers understanding where priorities need to land. Consider, however, that the half a penny budget NASA receives, if you double it, twice that, as unthinkable as that is to so many. I assert that we can transform the country from sullen dispirited nation, weary of economic struggle, to one where it has reclaimed its 20th century birthright to dream of tomorrow. And I ask you, how much would you pay to launch our economy?...How much would you pay for the universe?"

 

 

I think I just came. 

"It doesn't matter how black you think you are." - SwimMod_Bast smack down of the week

also, boobs, lesbians, undergarments

Swimuminati
stilgar
Posts: 118,211
Registered: ‎07-19-2003

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

BIG HARD THRUSTING ROCKETS!

 

 

 

it had to be done


Just f*ck already! ~ Tristan Taylor


If someone wants to stick stuff in your poop hole and then gets mad when said poop comes out, well they're just silly...

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Often I must speak other than I think. That is called diplomacy.


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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 64014925

I agree but it seems support for Nasa is the last thing on the minds of people in Washington. The market is never going to get us to mars, but if the government creates a way for people to get there, then they will in the same way that early exploration by Europeans to the new world opened up the trading companies that created the modern world. Except of course for the fact that there are no natives on the moon or mars.
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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Elle_Eccentric
Posts: 64,325
Registered: ‎05-21-2009
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Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

I second that.
How could they stop when we are so close.
Love is patient.Love is kind.
Order of the Owl
Icarus27k
Posts: 28,291
Registered: ‎01-17-2005

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

I thought it was going to be Mike Tyson.

 

Bummer.

;
Order of the Owl
Icarus27k
Posts: 28,291
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Icarus27k - Message ID#: 64016813

I killed another thread.

 

 

 

Mission accomplished.

;
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westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

[ Edited ]

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

Dr. Tyson is correct -- NASA's budget should be expanded. But last year when Obama & congress(including many Democrats) started cutting NASA's budget -- robo started #### to us. Calling Obama evil for harming NASA blah blah. And I'll tell you now what i told him last year. The problem is that the Afghan war this year will cost over 100 BILLION dollars. Libya cost somewhere between 1-3 billion. Well ####. There's your NASA budget right there neocon. The 2-4 trillion we've spent on the neocon illusory 'War on Terror' since 2002 is the equivalent to several decades of NASA's total budget. There's your money for NASA, expansion of student Pell Grants, welfare money, etc.

 

All down the neocon rabbit hole, where it went, nobody knows.

 

Combined with the effect of the Bush real estate downturn on our ability to budget -- a real estate downturn that was funded by the Bush Fed as a backdoor method to further fund their psychotic wars & yeah you're starting to get my point. Not sure what they're doing in Massachusetts but in my home state(not Texas) the state budget since 2007 has been cut between 9-15% a year since 2007. Meaning the state budget in my old state is now 50% what it was when I first started posting on here....& that's not accounting in inflation....& its actually higher than 50%, about 55%...

 

And if you realize that with our generation, only 54% are employed:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/only-54-young-adults-america-have-j
ob

 

Probably a little higher for late 20s people but still I imagine only 60% in my age bracket have a job. For young adults without a college degree the median wage has fallen to ten dollars an hour:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702042763045772655100
46126438.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

....& mind you thats before taxes. We're about to have 77 million Baby Boomers either retire & live solely off Section 8, SS, & medicare, or live partially off of those programs.

 

It takes years to build up job skills. And if kids are waiting til their 30s to even get employed its gonna take them that much longer to their peak earning period. And with that high unemployment -- how are we gonna replace those workers retiring? And if we do -- if they make 25 an hour -- how is making ten an hour going to replace the same tax income? Its not.

 

And we're running a trillion dollar deficit this year & from what I've read in the news, for as far 'as the eye can see.' Meaning @ least thru 2020 under current CBO projections.

 

Where the hell is that money gonna come from? And then you wanna get involved in both Syria & Iran? Where's the money gonna come from brother? We're defunding social programs & kicking ppl off of welfare rolls just to keep the military spending going.

 

Do you not understand the concept of a budget?

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery
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westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
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Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64015153


GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:
I agree but it seems support for Nasa is the last thing on the minds of people in Washington. The market is never going to get us to mars, but if the government creates a way for people to get there, then they will in the same way that early exploration by Europeans to the new world opened up the trading companies that created the modern world. Except of course for the fact that there are no natives on the moon or mars.

We can't even pass a budget without gutting welfare & where the Republicans act that a reduction to early 2000s levels of defense spending(which we aren't even @ yet) is akin to the apocalypse. With this kinda deadlock -- how in the hell can you get anything passed? Its all we can to avoid a govt default & shutdown with you Weekly Standard kooks calling the shots for the opposition....

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery
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Gaius_Sextus
Posts: 8,817
Registered: ‎07-16-2009
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to westpark - Message ID#: 64017287

I hope this isn't going to turn into yet another pissing match between you two . . . . .

http://www.visembryo.com/

Good men don't need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.

"Holy Sh!t, Hellhounds!"
"Harry, you know I don't like it when you swear."
"Oh, sorry. I forgot. Holy Sh!t, Heckhounds!"
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crapshot2
Posts: 9,561
Registered: ‎04-14-2011
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

[ Edited ]

Reply to Icarus27k - Message ID#: 64016813

ya, I thought this would be about pigeons or how good ears taste

all hail the crimson king
Swimperfect
Posts: 6,225
Registered: ‎03-01-2009
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

*Pushes all fiscality to the side*
I've had a #### for space ever since I heard Tyson speak on Jon Stewart last week!


I HEARD THE MARTIANS HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!
and they hate America...and they have gasoline...and they're trying to force contraception coverage onto Martian Church insurance plans...and I hear they support Communism!

DOWN WITH THE MARTIANS!
*enlists*

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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to westpark - Message ID#: 64017279

Can you go a single thread without beating that dead horse? Seriously... This is about space, not Iraq, get your head out from under there and pay attention. 

"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 64017311

Probably, his neocon Tourette's hasn't gotten any better.
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Snowy1 - Message ID#: 64017543

The hell are you talking about?
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
Swimperfect
Posts: 6,225
Registered: ‎03-01-2009
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64017595


GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:
The hell are you talking about?

Space

 

Space

 

Space

 

Space

 

Space

 

Space

 

 

 



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westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to Gaius_Sextus - Message ID#: 64017311


Gaius_Sextus wrote:

I hope this isn't going to turn into yet another pissing match between you two . . . . .


It won't. I'm going to stay on topic, if I reply @ all.

 

For every day I say RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH though....the longer it takes...the more cynical I become & the more I realize its either a) not gonna happen @ all. or b) it'll be far far too late in the game to change anything & keep our creditworthiness and c) if they do do it, they won't raise them high enough citing 'business leaving our shores(they're leaving whether we have high taxes or not)' & #### like that.

 

What's gonna happen is in order to fund SS the rich will pay off enough moderate Dems & the GOP in order to stop the kind of tax rates we need to fund it via their taxes & instead they'll get a 'Fair Tax'/999/flat tax/VAT/national sales tax on the poor & middle class. They have a VAT in most of Western Europe & Japan so its not an alien concept, even in social countries.

 

As soon as the bond market does a run on US Treasury bonds in probably ~5-13 years we'll be like most of Europe. That 46% unemployment rate is actually about what they have in most parts of Europe. Spain I think has a 40% young ppl unemployment rate. Structurally, we're fuuuuuudgeed. And with Republicans more than likely retaining the House & maybe even getting the senate this time(even though Obama will win in a landslide over Romney) -- how is Obama gonna get anything of substance passed with this level of GOP obstruction? Every pathetic mild tax hike he proposes gets him called a 'cultural Marxist' or some bizarre #### like that by the libertarians & tax protesters who currently run the GOP fiscal agenda.

 

When, not only do we need MUCH higher tax hikes -- we need massive employment New Deal type programs to put young ppl to work & to teach them trades.

 

And I just don't see it happening. There's too much racism. Black males under 30 have an unemployment rate of 50%, their incarceration rate I think is 10% -- many a tenth of all black males are in prison. Because like what Bill Maher said one time 'because the Republicans imposed strict sentencing laws for the drug of choice of black men.' We incarcerate more ppl than #### communist China & North Korea combined. I mean how is this the land of the free?

 

Its a decaying, crumbling oligarchal empire who's about 5-10 years past its peak & who's entering a period of fiscal insolvency & introspective navel-gazing about what we are as a nation.

 

I mean fuuuuuudge, when Republicans are attacking public worker unions who often have workers who barely average mid-5 figures for their salaries with a really pathetic pension/health benefit package....& they view that as demonic? :smileyvery-happy:

 

How are we gonna get money to even fund SS when the military sector is gobbling up close to 40% of our total federal budget & we have an aging population? I just don't see it. When the hedge funds & big money funds get tired of picking on Europe in a few years there's gonna be a massive bond market shorting of US T-Bonds. Why? Because they profit from it & because we're next in line to be picked on.

 

Frankly I'm beginning to see a lot of our budgetary projections are even rosy @ best. And that's assuming we print away a good portion of our debt. NASA is in terminal decline. The military is consuming every other minor program in sight in its lust to start fights with peanuckle tinpot dictators in the ME.....I mean wtf is this? :smileyvery-happy: 

 

The Republicans are acting worse than obstructionists -- they're literally trying to shut the govt down in a suicidal cynical attempt to gain power. When you have to basically blackmail the opposition it shows your level of vicious desperation. Its getting scary. The Republicans are getting scared. Their golden defense calf is getting slaughtered @ the moment piece by piece & they're acitng like rabid badgers being poked in a corner....& Obama's far too civil & nice to get anything done. He'll be like Clinton, only far more to the right & far more free market. The federal govt is gonna shrink severely over the coming decade, save certain defense sectors & entitlement spending on Baby Boomers. Those 2 things are gonna cannibalize everything else in the federal budget.

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery
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westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

[ Edited ]

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64017577


GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:

Can you go a single thread without beating that dead horse? Seriously... This is about space, not Iraq, get your head out from under there and pay attention. 


Do you not understand the concept of why we can't formulate a budget? You can't just sweep the last 8 years under the rug man. The wars bankrupted us:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/project_syndicate/2011/09/
the_true_cost_of_911.html

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/A
R2010090302200.html

 

=====

The global financial crisis was due, at least in part, to the war. Higher oil prices meant that money spent buying oil abroad was money not being spent at home. Meanwhile, war spending provided less of an economic boost than other forms of spending would have. Paying foreign contractors working in Iraq was neither an effective short-term stimulus (not compared with spending on education, infrastructure or technology) nor a basis for long-term growth.

 

Instead, loose monetary policy and lax regulations kept the economy going -- right up until the housing bubble burst, bringing on the economic freefall.

Saying what might have been is always difficult, especially with something as complex as the global financial crisis, which had many contributing factors.

 

Perhaps the crisis would have happened in any case. But almost surely, with more spending at home, and without the need for such low interest rates and such soft regulation to keep the economy going in its absence, the bubble would have been smaller, and the consequences of its breaking therefore less severe. To put it more bluntly: The war contributed indirectly to disastrous monetary policy and regulations.

====

 

..& something tells me expenditures from the 2 wars will go up even from those nightmarish projections.

 

We can't double NASA's budget. My home state just did a 15% slash to state education spending. And they're relying on federal help to plug other budget holes. :smileyvery-happy:

 

We're fuuuuuudgeed dude. NASA is gonna be a bare-bones agency in another few years. The wars you supported broke the bank brother. That's where NASA's budget money is. Gone, into the pocket of defense contractors & whoever else collected on the massive waste of public resources....

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery
RRRRRR!!
The_Pirate-King
Posts: 66,236
Registered: ‎01-31-2006
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64014679

But space exploration is just a political tool to one up the commies!

Since Al-Qaeda doesn't do anything like that, we don't have to either!
ZOUNDS!
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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
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Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to westpark - Message ID#: 64017737

It was never my view that we shouldn't pay for the war with a tax increase, and I never suggested we should cut Nasa. 

 

Save your bullsh1t for actual conservatives.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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GaiusIuliusCesar
Posts: 18,042
Registered: ‎10-25-2007
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to The_Pirate-King - Message ID#: 64018079

And this is why my feelings toward the government and politics and general verge on schizophrenic. I actually had this conversation with my father the other day, we were discussing the corrupt ineffectual nature of the city government, and the idiocy of people who think we can survive with out government.

Yes its absurd and stupid, but its a hell of a lot better than anarchy.

Its a sad day when the only politician talking about the moon is Newt Gingrich.
"What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens ; if you don't like Hitchens you can take a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.
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westpark
Posts: 59,269
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
0

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to GaiusIuliusCesar - Message ID#: 64018147


GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:

It was never my view that we shouldn't pay for the war with a tax increase, and I never suggested we should cut Nasa. 

 

Save your bullsh1t for actual conservatives.


That's basically saying "don't reply to me."

 

Fine. If that's what you want.

WESTPARK THE KING OF ASMB

"westpark ran a train on this thread" - Stilgar

"Every woman needs a good slap now & again." - Sir Sean Connery
RRRRRR!!
The_Pirate-King
Posts: 66,236
Registered: ‎01-31-2006

Re: Mr. Tyson goes to Washington.

Reply to westpark - Message ID#: 64018499


westpark wrote:

GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:

It was never my view that we shouldn't pay for the war with a tax increase, and I never suggested we should cut Nasa. 

 

Save your bullsh1t for actual conservatives.


That's basically saying "don't reply to me."

 

Fine. If that's what you want.


Is that you admitting you're full of sh!t?

'bout time.
ZOUNDS!