4-HBabe wrote:
Jingai wrote:
A few things to point out here: President Obama could have easily stated that he wants to have a discourse
envirnment where everyone is free to express their views and opinions without having to worry about becoming the
subject of a vicious attack. It would have been the same message, a better one in fact as it is more inclusive, and
accomplished the same goals without involving a pair of young children. Involving children in something like this
is tacky, it is completely unnecessary as pointed out, and finally, I am not the GOP.
Except the reason the president brought his children up in the first place is because he was asked why he called Ms. Fluke. Not why he thought what Rush said was wrong, or why we need to change the way we do things, but why he felt the need to call her.
And he gave an honest answer. That the situation made him think of his own children, who happen to be daughters, so he reacted not just as a father, but as a father of daughters. And just like any father of daughters, when they see women abused by men in the world they imagine how they would feel if that had been their daughters. And he opined for a day when they would be allowed to stand up and speak their minds without fear of being dismissed for so irrelevant a reason. That they would be recognized for what they had to say and who they were as individuals instead of glossed over and reduced to simply their sex. So, it was this feeling that prompted him to call Ms. Fluke and tell her he though her parents should be proud of her.
How, then, could he not name them individually; with pride?
It seems odd that this is the issue you are choosing to focus on when it is so peripheral to the issue that prompted this debate. Is it really so offensive to you that a father would talk about this children with pride and imagine a better tomorrow for them? Looking forward, with a glint in his eye, to possible success and happiness they might share? That sounds like every father I've ever met when he talks about his kids.
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On a tangential note regarding Bill Maher. I was not very familiar with his statements, as he only appears on HBO(which I do not have) for approximately 30 episodes per year, and an approximate viewership which is generously rounded up to 2 million. V.S. Rush's self proclaimed 15 million loyal listeners who can hear him 5 times a week on free radio all over the country. Part of the lack of outrage may have to do with the fact that he just isn't that popular. He hardly stands as a well known spokesman for the Democratic Party or Liberals in general.
That being said, after some research, it is clear that he does have a history of making sexist, misogynistic statements that are not only in bad taste, but just not funny. I mean, with all there is to make fun of Sarah Palin about the best he can do is call her a tw*t? really? But seriously, the statements I saw were disgusting, he should be ashamed of himself, and his supporters and viewers should demand not only that he apologize, but that he change. I have no idea why a superpac that supports the president has invited him to speak. I don't particularly find him funny. He is a comedian, you understand, not a news anchor or "the leader of the moral code," as Rush claims to be.
The difference between Rush Limbaugh and Bill Maher that is pertinent to this debate is that no one on the Left is standing up and defending Bill. No one is accusing his attackers of belonging to some shadowy government/liberal media conspiracy. Not a single person has come out in support of his remarks or said that they were taken out of context or that the complaint is overblown. I don't support Bill Maher, I won't defend the comments he made, and I agree that he should be held accountable for them. But that does not excuse what Rush Limbaugh said or that fact that he has a history of similar behavior or that he continues to behave in the same manner with no indication of changing at all.
>.<
Why do all my replies to your posts turn into a wall of text?
The issue here is that the President shouldn't be involving his family, it is tacky. He could have easily said that
he felt that Ms. Fluke was being treated unfairly, something I agree with, and that he felt a need to call her to help
bolster her spirits during a troubling time. (Where his calls to Laura Ingrahm and Sarah Palin are I don't know, but that is
another topic entirely.)
I don't find any fault with his desire to make a better future for his children. He could even go out and say something to
the effect of wanting to make a better future for all children, which would be a better message than simply using his
own daughters. It is tacky, because his daughters do not need to be dragged into this kind of debate. They should be
left out of politics entirely, allowed to grow up as normally as possible given the security considerations they will have
to live with. If, as adults, they choose to enter politics, that is their decision, and one they can make as adults, and accept
the consequences of.
I fail to see how audience size has anything to do with the standard of acceptability of speech. Be it ten or ten million,
a comment that is unacceptable is a comment that is unacceptable. Mr. Maher is apparently well known enough to
sell out a Democratic fund raising event in Alabama, so I think he certainly qualifies as a figure for progressive liberals,
or whatever he wants to pass himself off as.
The defense of being a comedian is completely fraudulent. The comments were not made in jest, and even if they
were they were not appropriate at all. People can claim all manner of things, but at the end of the day, they should still
be held to the same standard as everyone else, vocation excluded. If you make comments in the public arena on public
policy, then you should be held to the same standard, and that standard clearly does not include offensive language
regarding women, particularly the "C" word or "T" word.
No one on the left is calling for Maher to apologize or for HBO to suspend his show, nor are they boycotting any
advertisers that Time/Warner might have. They are simply ignoring his hateful slurs and letting them slide by.
That is the clear double standard involved.
The reason why they turn into walls of text is that you want to actually discuss the issue beyond using ad hominems,
like an adult.
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