Babbling

[railroadengine]

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

One must wonder why they aren't corporations in themselves.

But to end labor unions in government and soley blame them for bankrupting it is equally if not more wrong.

Organized labor has provided us with taken for granted standards of pay and hours of work per week.

Union busting threatens to erase all that.

It boggles the mind that enough voters liked the reduced gov't spending and no tax increases as a result of union busting to balance the budget instead of asking for concessions like CT governonr Dan Malloy who got both spending reductions and union concessions and tax increase to balance our budget.

Even though it still left a sizeable yet smaller deficit from ever decreasing tax renvenue, it was significant progress compared to kicking the can down the road by continuing the political bickoring over budget balancing or lynching the few that were easy to blame in mob mentality.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

[Crapshot3]

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railroadengine wrote:

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

---

most of these people that are so anti union don't know how ####ty right to work states are. labor contractors? no, not at all.in a right to work state you are forced to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week 3 weeks a month, then you have every so many months where you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with the good ole 6 day routine right ahead to look forward too. it's really up to the employer how much they mistreat employers.

did I mention no overtime. that is a union thing and right to work states do not(and most unless it's coorperate) have it.

[railroadengine]

Really?
Right to work is sort of news to me.
I don't think they do that where I live.
My comment about unions was more directed at them asking for things that we should either pay for ourselves or have completely socialized such as health benefits.
That kind of mistreatment being allowed should require unions to reconsiders what they want and how worth it it is to get.

[Crapshot3]

ya, blue collar workers get screwed in right to work states.

[railroadengine]

Wow.
CT isn't [as far as I know] is a right to work state.
Guess I should be glad.

[Crapshot3]

nope

[Cepheus84]

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railroadengine wrote:

Organized labor has provided us government employees with taken for granted standards of pay and hours of work per week on the backs of non-government employees.

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Fixed.

[4-HBabe]

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Crapshot3 wrote:

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railroadengine wrote:

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

---

most of these people that are so anti union don't know how ####ty right to work states are. labor contractors? no, not at all.in a right to work state you are forced to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week 3 weeks a month, then you have every so many months where you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with the good ole 6 day routine right ahead to look forward too. it's really up to the employer how much they mistreat employers.

did I mention no overtime. that is a union thing and right to work states do not(and most unless it's coorperate) have it.

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Don't forget that they can fire you at any time for no reason at all.

[railroadengine]

Dude. No.
That may be true for the last 50 years, but certainly not before that.
It took unions and the Roosevelt Administration to establish these standards.
Don't tell me that unions are as useless as right wingers say they are.

[railroadengine]

That's true most of the time anyway as union labor is the first to go.

[4-HBabe]

I mean in a right to work state they can fire you without cause.

If you're part of a union they have to show cause to fire you.

[railroadengine]

Well if they want to fire you, they'd still find a reason.
I find both right to work and forced union states pretty illogical.

[Crapshot3]

even if you are not in a union, as long as you are not in a right to work state. unions are just an extra layer of protection.

in missouri my employee must have a valid reason for firing me, in arkansas... nope.

[Master-Debater131]

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Crapshot3 wrote:

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railroadengine wrote:

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

---

most of these people that are so anti union don't know how ####ty right to work states are. labor contractors? no, not at all.in a right to work state you are forced to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week 3 weeks a month, then you have every so many months where you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with the good ole 6 day routine right ahead to look forward too. it's really up to the employer how much they mistreat employers.

did I mention no overtime. that is a union thing and right to work states do not(and most unless it's coorperate) have it.

---

There is so much wrong with this statement its scary.

Have you even lived in a right to work state?  Judging by this comment either A you never have or B you have no idea how to pick a good employer.  

I mean.  You make it sound like the workers are slaves which is Sensationalism, at best.

[Astromang]

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Crapshot3 wrote:

---

railroadengine wrote:

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

---

most of these people that are so anti union don't know how ####ty right to work states are. labor contractors? no, not at all.in a right to work state you are forced to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week 3 weeks a month, then you have every so many months where you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with the good ole 6 day routine right ahead to look forward too. it's really up to the employer how much they mistreat employers.

did I mention no overtime. that is a union thing and right to work states do not(and most unless it's coorperate) have it.

---

The more and more I hear you talk about this stuff the more and more I'm convinced you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Master-Debater131]

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Cepheus84 wrote:

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railroadengine wrote:

Organized labor has provided us government employees with taken for granted standards of pay and hours of work per week on the backs of non-government employees.

---

Fixed.

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All these public unions did was #### money out of the coffers.  Its a good thing that Walker busted htem up.  SO good that today in California voters in 2 different towns voted to take on unions.

People have woken up. 

[1938_Packard]

The thing about public sector unions is that they don't bargain against the stereotype boss - the fat, cigar chomping billionaire who sits at a platinum guilded desk.  No, public sector unions bargain basically against the ordinary tax payer.  They bargain against the burger flipper, the car wash attendant, the janitor and every other tax payer.  It's true.  Where does the money for a teacher's salary and benefits originate?  Taxes, of course!  Every time a teacher demands a bigger raise or a new perk, the money to pay for it comes directly out of the tax payer's pockets.

Private sector unions bargain against the rich boss, not public.

Now, how about if the cops go on strike?  How about if the fire fighters stage a sit down?

Walker isn't anti - union.  He's anti - extortion.

[Crapshot3]

I live in a right to work state.

I can not get a job hear because all the health rules(or lack there of) will not allow it and I can't work the hours. that is one reason I have to commute to missouri to get a job.

so please, shut up, you don't have any clue of what you are talking about.

and that is not sensationolism, that is the truth. all of my friends who work in arkansas as a blue collar worker have similar horror stories. most people who are late 30's look like they are upper 50's

[Astromang]

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4-HBabe wrote:

I mean in a right to work state they can fire you without cause.

If you're part of a union they have to show cause to fire you.

---

I've lived in a right to work state my whole life. Number of times fired: 0

Do your job and you don't get fired. It's a totally radical idea I know, but trust me it works.

[Master-Debater131]

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Astromang wrote:

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4-HBabe wrote:

I mean in a right to work state they can fire you without cause.

If you're part of a union they have to show cause to fire you.

---

I've lived in a right to work state my whole life. Number of times fired: 0

Do your job and you don't get fired. It's a totally radical idea I know, but trust me it works.

---

Same here. 

If you do your job you wont get fired.  Its only the incompatent workers that get fired.  Thats why they want to have the Unions.  Incompatent people love working for Unions because it is very hard to get fired if your in a Union. 

Ive had a lot of jobs in a right to work state, never once fired.  Never once diciplined.  Its all about your attitude.  

[railroadengine]

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Master-Debater131 wrote:

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Crapshot3 wrote:

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railroadengine wrote:

That union busting #### won his recall election.

You know, as much as I like organized labor, unions do act like labor contractors.

Why is it so hard for both parties to move toward the center?

I still hope he loses his re-election.

---

most of these people that are so anti union don't know how ####ty right to work states are. labor contractors? no, not at all.in a right to work state you are forced to work 10 hours a day 6 days a week 3 weeks a month, then you have every so many months where you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with the good ole 6 day routine right ahead to look forward too. it's really up to the employer how much they mistreat employers.

did I mention no overtime. that is a union thing and right to work states do not(and most unless it's coorperate) have it.

---

There is so much wrong with this statement its scary.

Have you even lived in a right to work state?  Judging by this comment either A you never have or B you have no idea how to pick a good employer.  

I mean.  You make it sound like the workers are slaves which is Sensationalism, at best.

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Me or crapshot3?

[railroadengine]

He's anti bargain.
Don't think for a second that I don't know that ANY public employee DOESN'T get paid of tax dollars.
They all do.
To call unions extortionists is the equivalent of calling ANY gov't employee and extortionist.
The difference is that unions shoulder excessive benefits on their employers. Destroying unions won't solve the problem. It will only move it.

[railroadengine]

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Master-Debater131 wrote:

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Astromang wrote:

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4-HBabe wrote:

I mean in a right to work state they can fire you without cause.

If you're part of a union they have to show cause to fire you.

---

I've lived in a right to work state my whole life. Number of times fired: 0

Do your job and you don't get fired. It's a totally radical idea I know, but trust me it works.

---

Same here. 

If you do your job you wont get fired.  Its only the incompatent workers that get fired.  Thats why they want to have the Unions.  Incompatent people love working for Unions because it is very hard to get fired if your in a Union. 

Ive had a lot of jobs in a right to work state, never once fired.  Never once diciplined.  Its all about your attitude.  

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So when the economy collpases because of large corrupt business being run as piggy banks for thier owners only the lazy slackers get laid off for being so lazy? And NOT because the CEO is playing games with their profit margins or outsourcing to other countries?

[Master-Debater131]

You can answer to if you want  

All these horror stories are just sensationalism.  Ive worked in a right to work state my whole life and never had a problem.  Employers only fire you if they have a reason to.  Theres a very simple solution to keeping this from happening, dont give them a reason to.  Do your job well and dont cause problems.  if you make a mistake fix it right away.  These are simple things that can be done to keep your job.  

Ive got friends who have been fired from half of their jobs.  Why?  Because they don do the work.  They had their jobs and though thtey could just sit around all day instead of doing their work.  They got fired.  

Its not that hard a concept, or at least, it shouldnt be.  Do your job, do it well, and you will have it as long as you want.  

[Master-Debater131]

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railroadengine wrote:

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Master-Debater131 wrote:

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Astromang wrote:

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4-HBabe wrote:

I mean in a right to work state they can fire you without cause.

If you're part of a union they have to show cause to fire you.

---

I've lived in a right to work state my whole life. Number of times fired: 0

Do your job and you don't get fired. It's a totally radical idea I know, but trust me it works.

---

Same here. 

If you do your job you wont get fired.  Its only the incompatent workers that get fired.  Thats why they want to have the Unions.  Incompatent people love working for Unions because it is very hard to get fired if your in a Union. 

Ive had a lot of jobs in a right to work state, never once fired.  Never once diciplined.  Its all about your attitude.  

---

So when the economy collpases because of large corrupt business being run as piggy banks for thier owners only the lazy slackers get laid off for being so lazy? And NOT because the CEO is playing games with their profit margins or outsourcing to other countries?

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There is a huge difference between the economy collapsing and a person getting fired because they #### at their job.

In the case of this downturn people did a lot of #### they shouldnt have been doing and our whole system was based on lies and assurances that never came true.  

As far as outsourcing goes, that started long before our economy went to ####.  THose jobs will never come back to the states so people need to accept that and get with the program. Our economy is different now and people need to adapt to it.  The genie is out of the preverbial bottle, its time we adjust and move on.

In terms of what it has done, it has forces us to adress our issues before we might otherwise have to.  Union reform was going to have to happen.  They are simply unsustainable.  Same with Social security, Medicare, and our Military.  We cant keep spending like this.  All of these programs are going to need some pretty serious cuts now or in 10 years they are going to need draconian cuts when we run out of money.