Babbling

[westpark]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/adam-davidson-china-th
reat.html

Right now its projected that China will pass us up in R&D funding by the year 2022. I think it'll be sooner as I'm not too hot on our economy but you never know. Anyway -- R&D goes with manufacturing. Our logic is -- we're a high-tech economy -- but the money flows where the factories are -- & if they have our freaking factories -- how in the world do we not expect r&d dollars to follow?

[GhostOfAnneUgligurl]

Batman will just go to Hong Kong and kidnap the R&D department.

[westpark]

Lol I loved Nolan's whole 'we can export American justice even to you commie Chinese'

Then Bale went over there last month & got his mouth smacked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-NGweWIQqc

[GhostOfAnneUgligurl]

wrong batman

[westpark]

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GhostOfAnneUgligurl wrote:

wrong batman

---

fuuuuuudgein love that series.

[GhostOfAnneUgligurl]

Kevin Conroy autographed a picture..

It looks like this..
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/DJPORKCHOP/batmanautograph
.jpg

[desantoos]

First of all, China has more people than the US. So expect them to dump more money into things in the future... they have more mouths to feed.

Secondly, and more importantly, China isn't outsmarting us now and I doubt they will later. Look at average impact factor for China vs. US and it's last-ish place vs. second or third place (**noel** you Swedes!). Yeah they do a lot of research but it all kind of **noel**. I don't see how this will differ.

Thirdly, there is a lot of talk about how people move to the US to compete for our jobs when it comes to high-paying positions. Now they will have their own jobs in their own country. Which means that there's less competition for high-paying educated jobs in the US. That's a good thing.

Fourthly, it also means that instead of all the smart people moving away from China, they will go back there, which means there will be more of a reasoned government. 

China alarmist stuff is silly. The country's going to age fast and that shifting demographic is precisely why they are no long-term harm to the US if the US can keep afloat for the next fifteen or so years.

[neverkeepchangin11]

who gives a crap as long as our cocks are bigger

[Cepheus84]

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desantoos wrote:

if the US can keep afloat for the next fifteen or so years.i

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That seems like a big if these days.

[Jingai]

 I don't know about that, it really depends on a great deal of things. First, will the United States

begin to see private sector R&D budget increases commensurate with a real recovery growth period

or not. Most of the Chinese R&D is actually devoted to reverse engineering (ripping off) products

from Japan and the United States, as opposed to the actual development of new domestic technologies.

  Will the United States see an uptick in students pursuing degrees in science and technology,

or will they continue to pursue degrees in liberal arts fields. That makes a large difference, if the shift

is back towards science, engineering and technology, the U.S. could see a large boost to R&D staff,

simply because there is larger pool of resources available, and thus those resources are cheaper

to acquire and maintain.

[westpark]

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desantoos wrote:

First of all, China has more people than the US. So expect them to dump more money into things in the future... they have more mouths to feed.

Secondly, and more importantly, China isn't outsmarting us now and I doubt they will later. Look at average impact factor for China vs. US and it's last-ish place vs. second or third place (**noel** you Swedes!). Yeah they do a lot of research but it all kind of **noel**. I don't see how this will differ.

Thirdly, there is a lot of talk about how people move to the US to compete for our jobs when it comes to high-paying positions. Now they will have their own jobs in their own country. Which means that there's less competition for high-paying educated jobs in the US. That's a good thing.

Fourthly, it also means that instead of all the smart people moving away from China, they will go back there, which means there will be more of a reasoned government. 

China alarmist stuff is silly. The country's going to age fast and that shifting demographic is precisely why they are no long-term harm to the US if the US can keep afloat for the next fifteen or so years.

---

Er....have you seen our demographic profile? Especially for young Americans, who are largely not white, & their educational attainment? They're not even getting out of fricken high school bro -- how in the fuuuuuudge are they gonna get thru grad school in the 'technical economy' that economists predict we'll have to build to stay on top? Also, its not that simple -- as they grow -- so does the strength of the currency there. You've seen the news articles & the photos of the shuttered factories that sit in Michigan & Indiana dude. You see how they're now homes for vagrants & metal scrappers, that's about it.

With close to half of all young black men out of work, & with the section of the population pyramid of young people going to be more black & brown I'm just not seeing it. We should be doubling, maybe even tripling the education dollars we allocate to educate minorities, many of whom are ESL & who need expensive ass tutors to even understand basic concepts that you need to function in a bonehead service-sector job. You never know, we could have a upsurge in young minority workers who attain engineering degrees, medical degrees, computer certs, etc. -- but lemme ask you -- if Chinese grad students are going back now -- & if they're filling a sizable chunk of our technological/intellectual workforce now BECAUSE there's a shortage of educated technical American young people -- what's gonna happen when the economy picks up in Asia & they return home? Right now 50% of all physics grad students are Asian exchange students. Another 20% or so are other foreign exchange students.

Sometimes I'm contrarian for contrarian's sake but not this time. I really do think we're fuuuuuudgeed. The Baby Boomers are going to consume every spare asset & tax dollar they can find like a band of locusts. Its happening now, I've been reading news stories where minorities will move into a community, increase the expenditures due to ESL tutors, special ESL books, etc. -- & also by just adding more children & when the school tries to raise millage rates on the property taxes THE VOTERS HAVE A REFERENDUM OR A RECALL OR THEY CALL THE SCHOOL BOARD UP & THREATEN TO VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENT IF THEY VOTE YES AND THEN VOTE THE FREAKING PROPERTY TAX HIKES DOWN!! A 30 FREAKIN CENT TAX HIKE IS 'TOO MUCH' FOR THESE PEOPLE:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8396667

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/18/3162711/keller-school-vot
ers-defeat-tax.html

They're going to fund their social security & medicare by defunding education, among other things....& these poor, increasinly mainly minority kids, will be the main ones who suffer, as will our future workforce.

[westpark]

---

Jingai wrote:

 I don't know about that, it really depends on a great deal of things. First, will the United States

begin to see private sector R&D budget increases commensurate with a real recovery growth period

or not. Most of the Chinese R&D is actually devoted to reverse engineering (ripping off) products

from Japan and the United States, as opposed to the actual development of new domestic technologies.

  Will the United States see an uptick in students pursuing degrees in science and technology,

or will they continue to pursue degrees in liberal arts fields. That makes a large difference, if the shift

is back towards science, engineering and technology, the U.S. could see a large boost to R&D staff,

simply because there is larger pool of resources available, and thus those resources are cheaper

to acquire and maintain.

---

Well, that's the ideal. But do you really see it? The kids coming up can't even get out of high school. You constantly hear about 'high school grads read & do math @ a 5th grade level' -- so idk. You put 2 & 2 together & see what comes out.

I think, if we're lucky we'll get more liberal arts types. I think what we'll get instead is a new class of welfare dependents & would-be unskilled laborers with no real future in any viable, established trade as the service sector already has a glut of unskilled labor they don't need. And as some argue -- automation is cleaning out the need for other trades so idk -- the future doesn't look bright.

[crapshot2]

I love people that rip on BA's. I don't think they know how much of a stepping stone they really are. most of the math and science majors I know came from a BA simply cause they didn't know what to do. most CC offer streamlined BA degree's for easy transfer

but whatever. take nothing into account.

[TheGreatUrameshi13]

China's economic bubble is probably going to burst before then.  I'm not too worried about it.

[capt_taco]

Nope. As soon as China gets into something that makes them anything other than a cheap labor source, their whole economy collapses. Then they're faced with the stark reality that they're nowhere in hell near as competent as the rest of the developed world technologically, just cheap. Or used-to-be cheap. That's the one thing all these "omg china is going to take over" people just completely miss, over and over again.

[Master-Debater131]

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TheGreatUrameshi13 wrote:

China's economic bubble is probably going to burst before then.  I'm not too worried about it.

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If you look at everything coming out of CHina these days it already looks like it is bursting. 

They are having some disastrous problems right now and if they don't get hold of it they are in deep-deep **noel**.

Oh and cant forget, theres a higher possibility of Democratic revolution in China the worse their economy gets.

[Jingai]

Where exactly was I "ripping on" a B.A. degree?

[GiantMegaDoucheX]

With how **noel** hard it is to get an education in the United States I wouldn't be surprised.

[alucardsexyghost]

It doesn't matter because Japan will have gundums soon. Then we are all fuuuuuudgeed.

[desantoos]

We spend far more money per student than any of the Asian countries do on education. Even on the minorities. The reason minorities, or heck, even the majority do not succeed is not merely a monetary thing--these days there are an exceeding amount of grants (albeit, we need a hell of a lot more for younger kids) but a cultural stigma that comes with learning math and sciences. In the US, unlike practically anywhere else in the world, you are supposed to do **noel**ty in math and you are supposed to hate science and if you don't something's off with you. We have this stigma about wanting to know lots of things or achieve lots of things.

Now, I gave you the inside-science R&D answer that the big smarts aren't going to move anywhere because it's far more comfortable to be in the states, and if they DO move then it is a benefit to us since it will stabilize the world. But let's be clear: nobody in this country is entitled to anything. American exceptionalism is bull**noel** and we both know it, so let's shift the conversation from "oh my God why aren't we the best" to "how can we move the culture of the US from lazy and afraid of learning to hard working and knowledgable." Yes, there are plenty of social and racial disadvantaged people in the US. They should not be discredited. But if you are talking about the problem with our education, it is much larger than that.

[cobrasks]

At the current rate China will surpass us in a LOT of things in the next few years .

The current tech level they are at came at a rediculously low R&D cost so far .

Why ?

Most tech was R&Ded in the US for decades .

When manufacturing started to be sent to China by US companies the processes used

were simply stolen by the Chinese .  They got night vision technology and a lot of

laser tech for free .

You can blame corporate greed all you want but it's a combo of greed and over regulation pushing

them out .

[TRONOLOLolol]

Lol, all their top scientists come over here to work.

[GaiusIuliusCesar]

That's a joke china is an unstable nation that will have its ruling regime overthrown within the next two decades. You can bookmark this for when that happens, since I'm going to say I told you so.

The fact is their demographics, economic situation, and political status make for a revolutionary situation under the Leninist definition.

[Cepheus84]

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GaiusIuliusCesar wrote:
That's a joke china is an unstable nation that will have its ruling regime overthrown within the next two decades. You can bookmark this for when that happens, since I'm going to say I told you so.

The fact is their demographics, economic situation, and political status make for a revolutionary situation under the Leninist definition.

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Not going to happen.  Despotic authoritarianism (whether its driving ideology is Confucianism or Communism) has been China's default governmental state for virtually all of its history.  It's much more likely it will continue in this mode indefinitely than suddenly become a Western style democracy overnight.

[crapshot2]

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Jingai wrote:

Where exactly was I "ripping on" a B.A. degree?

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"Will the United States see an uptick in students pursuing degrees in science and technology,

or will they continue to pursue degrees in liberal arts fields."

that lineand everything you have ever said about B.A. you really don't know what they are and how people get them and how they are transfered.. most community *colleges* offer up to a b.a for transfer/work purposes. most of them are streamlined 2/3year

my sister is going into teaching with her B.A degree.