Babbling

[greyshirt]

life stinks.............

[scoobdog]

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Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

I'm not saying he shouldn't be charged with assault, as he did assault a guy. I'm just pissed how people always turn this argument into an anti-Muslim sentiment where just because Mulsims don't like to see Muhammad being drawn or acted out means Sharia Law all over America and stories like this really fire up the anti-Muslim crowd and keep the wheel turning for more and more discrimination.

---

I'm with you on this one.  I don't agree with the judge's decision at all, but I think incidents like this point out how free speech can and is abused to the detriment of society as a whole.  The first amenement was was intended to provoke government, NOT fellow citizens.  It was never intended as a way of denigrating someone else's beliefs with proection.  Unfortunately, these kind of abuses need to be protected as a matter of principle - speech is such an integral part to maintaing self-determination that it can not be suppressed for any reason.  However, people like Ernie Pierce rarely think about exactly how they affect others when the express a point.

[GinaSzanboti]

Well, we used to allow duels when someone offended someone else.

[Zerstiren]

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Cepheus84 wrote:

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Zerstiren wrote:

We've trashed on Je-sus for how long, and Muslims think they deserve special treatment?

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I think this is what annoys me the most about stories like this.

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It is a spam reply, and you don't have to agree with me. And I may not know everything involved in this case: but overall, we do need to maintain a secular state.

[the_shotgun_rhetoric]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:

Well, we used to allow duels when someone offended someone else.

---

I miss that.

[Mjöllnir]

hey that's crazy. I just replied to another thread just like this one.

[Mjöllnir]

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Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

As a Muslim, I know for a fact that the main reason why other Muslims get angry when Muhammad is depicted in any way is because it is a religious thing. In Islam, it is a no-no to draw or act like Muhammad in any way, and that includes dressing up as a zombie Muhammad deliberately angering a faith for kicks and giggles. Not saying that there should be a nation-wide legalization of abuse against those who insult Muhammad, but have some #### respect, people. The Zombie Pope didn't get attacked because the pope is just a figurehead in the grand scheme of things. If he was dressed like Zombie Jebus now, that's where you'll see Catholic's flip their ####

---

Have some respect?  Oh Ok.  It should only be legal to attack people if they make fun of your religion. 

   O

   /!\

   / \            <------------stick figure Muhammad.   

(oh noez, i'm marked for death nao)

[Chappi_The_Rabbit]

---

Mjöllnir wrote:

---

Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

As a Muslim, I know for a fact that the main reason why other Muslims get angry when Muhammad is depicted in any way is because it is a religious thing. In Islam, it is a no-no to draw or act like Muhammad in any way, and that includes dressing up as a zombie Muhammad deliberately angering a faith for kicks and giggles. Not saying that there should be a nation-wide legalization of abuse against those who insult Muhammad, but have some #### respect, people. The Zombie Pope didn't get attacked because the pope is just a figurehead in the grand scheme of things. If he was dressed like Zombie Jebus now, that's where you'll see Catholic's flip their ####

---

Have some respect?  Oh Ok.  It should only be legal to attack people if they make fun of your religion. 

   O

   /!\

   / \            <------------stick figure Muhammad.   

(oh noez, i'm marked for death nao)

---

Did you even read my last reply!? I said the guy should be arrested for assault. I just wish that at the very least people would stop trying to make this a reason why Freedom of Religion should be mocked and bastardized as Islam is "the religion of terrorism" and all that sh!t. I'm not that religious so I don't care too much when people draw Muhammad (hell, I actually found International Draw Muhammad Day to be hilarious). Just don't be a fvcking d!ck about it, like you are right now by thinking that your being "lulz edgy" with the stick figure Muhammad. Grow the fvck up.

[scoobdog]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:

Well, we used to allow duels when someone offended someone else.

---

Yeah, not for very long (in our history, that is).  Interestingly enough, one of the few things feudal society gets right is that it offers a set of rules above and beyond the established legal system that serve to redress local issues in an orderly way.  Unfortunately there is no way I can think of adapting a modern day code of "Chivalry" or "Bushido" in a multethnic society.

[Pinkfrog]

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Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

---

Mjöllnir wrote:

---

Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

As a Muslim, I know for a fact that the main reason why other Muslims get angry when Muhammad is depicted in any way is because it is a religious thing. In Islam, it is a no-no to draw or act like Muhammad in any way, and that includes dressing up as a zombie Muhammad deliberately angering a faith for kicks and giggles. Not saying that there should be a nation-wide legalization of abuse against those who insult Muhammad, but have some #### respect, people. The Zombie Pope didn't get attacked because the pope is just a figurehead in the grand scheme of things. If he was dressed like Zombie Jebus now, that's where you'll see Catholic's flip their ####

---

Have some respect?  Oh Ok.  It should only be legal to attack people if they make fun of your religion. 

   O

   /!\

   / \            <------------stick figure Muhammad.   

(oh noez, i'm marked for death nao)

---

Did you even read my last reply!? I said the guy should be arrested for assault. I just wish that at the very least people would stop trying to make this a reason why Freedom of Religion should be mocked and bastardized as Islam is "the religion of terrorism" and all that sh!t. I'm not that religious so I don't care too much when people draw Muhammad (hell, I actually found International Draw Muhammad Day to be hilarious). Just don't be a fvcking d!ck about it, like you are right now by thinking that your being "lulz edgy" with the stick figure Muhammad. Grow the fvck up.

---

Yea but the thing is I dont see gay people feak out and attack westboro tards and if they do they end up in jail.

I dont see southpark

How do I put it..

Pulling its punches against christians do you? They love to have a jab a #### and good for them strangly I dont think they have ever received so many death threads from christians they had to pull a episode..

I understand you want to defend your religion but come on

When this is going on daily

Persecution Round Up: Convert Beheaded in Somalia and US Tweets for Nadarkhani

Several reports of persecution against Christians from around the globe have emerged this week, including the Church of England pressuring the U.K. government to aid religious minorities in Nigeria, Iranian authorities reportedly invading another house church, and 35 Ethiopian Christians imprisoned in Saudi Arabia reportedly being pressured to convert to Islam.

You know how angry non muslims got over the whole opening a mosque neer the 9/11 site?

Where is that same outrage from moderate muslims when hardline muslims pull #### like beheadings for converts or burning churches.. the list goes on.. where is outrage among your own religion when that stuff happens? I'm sorrey to call your out but if you are active on these boards christians get made fun of on the reg welcome to the club. If your going to admit you acknowledge religion you will get made fun of bottom line deal with it. There is no excuse for attacking someone because of the way they are dressed right? You said he should be arrested for assult bam done you understand sweet ta ta;s

[alucardsexyghost]

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Pinkfrog wrote:

---

Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

---

Mjöllnir wrote:

---

Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

As a Muslim, I know for a fact that the main reason why other Muslims get angry when Muhammad is depicted in any way is because it is a religious thing. In Islam, it is a no-no to draw or act like Muhammad in any way, and that includes dressing up as a zombie Muhammad deliberately angering a faith for kicks and giggles. Not saying that there should be a nation-wide legalization of abuse against those who insult Muhammad, but have some #### respect, people. The Zombie Pope didn't get attacked because the pope is just a figurehead in the grand scheme of things. If he was dressed like Zombie Jebus now, that's where you'll see Catholic's flip their ####

---

Have some respect?  Oh Ok.  It should only be legal to attack people if they make fun of your religion. 

   O

   /!\

   / \            <------------stick figure Muhammad.   

(oh noez, i'm marked for death nao)

---

Did you even read my last reply!? I said the guy should be arrested for assault. I just wish that at the very least people would stop trying to make this a reason why Freedom of Religion should be mocked and bastardized as Islam is "the religion of terrorism" and all that sh!t. I'm not that religious so I don't care too much when people draw Muhammad (hell, I actually found International Draw Muhammad Day to be hilarious). Just don't be a fvcking d!ck about it, like you are right now by thinking that your being "lulz edgy" with the stick figure Muhammad. Grow the fvck up.

---

Yea but the thing is I dont see gay people feak out and attack westboro tards and if they do they end up in jail.

I dont see southpark

How do I put it..

Pulling its punches against christians do you? They love to have a jab a #### and good for them strangly I dont think they have ever received so many death threads from christians they had to pull a episode..

I understand you want to defend your religion but come on

When this is going on daily

Persecution Round Up: Convert Beheaded in Somalia and US Tweets for Nadarkhani

Several reports of persecution against Christians from around the globe have emerged this week, including the Church of England pressuring the U.K. government to aid religious minorities in Nigeria, Iranian authorities reportedly invading another house church, and 35 Ethiopian Christians imprisoned in Saudi Arabia reportedly being pressured to convert to Islam.

You know how angry non muslims got over the whole opening a mosque neer the 9/11 site?

Where is that same outrage from moderate muslims when hardline muslims pull #### like beheadings for converts or burning churches.. the list goes on.. where is outrage among your own religion when that stuff happens? I'm sorrey to call your out but if you are active on these boards christians get made fun of on the reg welcome to the club. If your going to admit you acknowledge religion you will get made fun of bottom line deal with it. There is no excuse for attacking someone because of the way they are dressed right? You said he should be arrested for assult bam done you understand sweet ta ta;s

---

Actually their are whole groups of Muslims dedicated to stopping and denouncing stuff like that. I've posted links in response to animecandy before. I'm to lazy to dig them up now. Needless to say we never hear about them because well that just doesn't bring in the ratings.

Just like you hardly hear news stories about moderate mainstream Christians showing outrage and denouncing things that the extremists like westboro does. It won't get as much ratings as just reporting the things westboro does.

Take these boards for example, when was the last time you saw a thread about something a god moderate *insert religion here* did? Or the good things a politician said or did? Last thing I remember was Obama repealing the Don't ask Don't tell, and that is seen as horrible by a lot of people. Positive stuff just doesn't pull the crowds.

[Pinkfrog]

When I see things happening like this

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/12022
2/nadarkhani-sentenced-death-conver...

An Iranian court upheld the death sentence against a man who converted to Christianity, a religious group reported today.

There is no word on when Iran might execute Youcef Nadarkhani, a Christian pastor jailed since 2009, the American Center for Law and Justice told Fox News.

“The world needs to stand up and say that a man cannot be put to death because of his faith,” ACLJ executive director Jordan Sekulow said. “This one case is not just about one execution. We have been able to expose the system instead of just letting one man disappear.”

This is a law on a governments books.

They used the law in the books to behead this man.  To cut his head off why? Because he changed from the "state enforced religion" to one of his chooseing.

Please you said you have links for some old thing that happened..

Do you have any links denounceing this type of actions that happened a few days ago?

I would love to hear that this is clearly wrong from muslims websites out there.

Hell

How about a government that is admitidly run.. That their governing law is sharia law denounce this type of action

Sadly

I doubt any leaders in the community are out there fighting this kind of thing openly because open your eyes.. This isnt a retrud group like westburro.. This is a government. That used laws to behead a man because of the religion he held.

[alucardsexyghost]

I didn't say I had links about some old event, I said I had links to groups of muslims dedicated to fighting this kind of extreamism.

http://www.freemuslims.org/about/

that's the biggest group I know of.

[Pinkfrog]

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alucardsexyghost wrote:

I didn't say I had links about some old event, I said I had links to groups of muslims dedicated to fighting this kind of extreamism.

http://www.freemuslims.org/about/

that's the biggest group I know of.

---

Ok there is one small site.

The problem I references is an entire country not a few extrimists.

When you have countries of millions of people liveing by laws like ohhhhhhhh say these ones.

http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034

Dual      Legal System. Many majority Muslim countries have a dual system in which the government      is secular but Muslims can choose to bring familial and financial disputes      to sharia courts. The      exact jurisdiction of these courts varies from country to country, but      usually includes marriage, divorce, inheritance, and guardianship.      Examples can be seen in Nigeria and Kenya, which have sharia courts that rule on family law for Muslims. A variation      exists in Tanzania, where civil courts apply sharia or secular law according to the religious      backgrounds of the defendants. Several countries, including Lebanon and      Indonesia, have mixed jurisdiction courts based on residual colonial legal      systems and supplemented with sharia. Western countries are also exploring the idea of allowing Muslims to apply Islamic law in familial and financial disputes.

How can you say there arent.. How do I put this tactifully..

Many many many more muslims out there who agree with this type of handleing of laws than there are those who oppose it?

You have government schools and government groups who activly preach these types of laws to their own people.

I dont agree with this website

But the point is made

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/01/muslims-a
ttack-christian-group-at-town-hall-...

Suspected gunmen from a radical  Muslim sect attacked a town hall Friday in rural northeast Nigeria,  killing at least 20 people who had gathered for a meeting of a Christian  ethnic group, police said.

The  attack at noon targeted a town hall where Christian Igbo people were  holding a meeting, with gunmen chanting 'God is great' as they fired  Kalashnikov rifles.

The  killings come after a spokesman for the sect known as Boko Haram  threatened to begin specifically targeting Christians living in the  country's Muslim north in its increasingly bloody sectarian fight with  Nigeria's weak central government.

I could keep pulling out links and facts to back this up but meh whats the point i'm not wrong am I?

There is a large disconnect when it comes to what is accepted between muslims to the point where beheadings and stoneings still happen to this day.

Sure have christians gone crazy and done horrible things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_Early_Modern_per
iod

Absoutely but we kinda stoped beheading and stoneing ppl a few hundred years back as common church practice..

[Pinkfrog]

To take it even further

Lets that the Vatican for example

It is a sovern state run by religion right?

Pope Paul VI removed the capital punishment statute from the "fundamental law" of Vatican City in 1969, along with other adaptations, four years after closing the Second Vatican Council, announcing the change only in the August 1969 issue of the Gazette, which is published in Latin.[3] The change only came to public attention in January 1971 after reporters accused Paul VI of hypocrisy for his criticisms of planned executions in Spain and the Soviet Union

So yea..

It isnt in any way equal

[MrD1718]

How ridiculous....nobody's religion should trump the law.

[Chappi_The_Rabbit]

I'm not above making fun of Islam. I found that the South Park episode was hilarious,  I support Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gough didn't deserve to be killed, the Muslim who punched the guy should have been charged with assault, and had I been there, I would have done much worse to Bin Laden than the Seal Team did. I obviously can't speak for the Muslims overseas because they're batsh!t crazy, just like how you can't speak for the Christians that picket military funerals and want to make America a Christian nation (unless you're into that stuff), but news stories like this are only going to make it harder for moderate/liberal Muslims to be able to get respect when right wing politicians are only going to use this to punish the community and stir the pot again.

Your comparisons make no sense, as non-Muslims were pissed at the NYC mosque because of right wing "Muslims are terrorists" sentiments. Moderate/liberal Muslims do condemn hardcore radical Islamisists overseas, but the media doesn't cover outrage amongst liberal Muslims against hardcore Muslims, just as liberal Christians are barely shown condemning Westboro's existence. No, it's more entertaining for the media to show non-Muslim and Muslim culture clashes. Same thing with hate crimes: stories where Muslims are killed by non-Muslims in America because of their religion don't get nearly as much of an outcry as a non-Muslim killed by a Muslim for the same reason. Muslims are just easier to hate. I learned that the hard way throughout my youth.

[Pinkfrog]

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Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

Your comparisons make no sense, as non-Muslims were pissed at the NYC mosque because of right wing "Muslims are terrorists" sentiments. Moderate/liberal Muslims do condemn hardcore radical Islamisists overseas, but the media doesn't cover outrage amongst liberal Muslims against hardcore Muslims, just as liberal Christians are barely shown condemning Westboro's existence. No, it's more entertaining for the media to show non-Muslim and Muslim culture clashes. Same thing with hate crimes: stories where Muslims are killed by non-Muslims in America because of their religion don't get nearly as much of an outcry as a non-Muslim killed by a Muslim for the same reason. Muslims are just easier to hate. I learned that the hard way throughout my youth.

---

You misread me let me be more clear looking back I see how you can make that conclusion

My point was

That Non Muslims were outraged over it. That Non Muslims stood up for muslims and said hey.. That isnt right they just want to build a church ect.. thats their right.. And ya know what it is their right to do that. It is abit tactless to put it there but hell its their right.

That is the point

Where are muslims and non muslims standing up to a man being beheaded because he decided he liked the redux of the story better?

No no no no what westburrow is doing is retarded let me make that clear.. If you want to pull up a large group who is defending them please do i'll rip their argument to shreads.

The thing is

I dont see ANY muslims leaders denounceing this type of stuff. Yes like sht not i cant remember who ever posted above you there are small groups of liberal muslims out there who denoucne this stuff. Great..

Where are the LEADERS of your religion doing this?

They arent are they?

Many leaders encourage this type of stuff because it prooves your the bestest muslim in the land lol..

I am useing abit of literary overstatement but it isnt that far off from the truth of what is going on overseas

Its a totally differnent culture.. Where something like 99.99% of our troops over there dont even speak the language..

It is very hard to understand something that you cannot communicate to or understand their motives.

If you dont understand their motives are derived from religion and by proxy their local Shaikh, or Mufti, or Da'iyy then i'm not sure how to explain it further tbh..

tldr dont misunderstand me I was pointing out that non muslims stoof up in defense of muslims in the case of the 9/11 mosque..

Where are muslims standing up for non muslims on things like ohhh

beheadings. stoneings bombings genocide ect..

[alucardsexyghost]

eh I think we are talking about two different things, you asked where the outrage was, I said their are Muslims that are outraged and created groups to try to change things.

As far as people in those countries, yeah a lot of them agree, or at least don't care about it enough to actively try to change it. Which is a problem the group I linked to mention, that change has to come from the Islamic community and it just isn't. So anyway, I wouldn't say the majority of Muslims agree with these things, just that the majority for whatever reason isn't willing to try to actively change things. But their are groups who do try to make a difference, and that was my point.

[Gaius_Sextus]

<.<

>.>

westpark isn't here, is he?

[Glodson]

I will just post this here. That judge should be disbarred and dismissed. The one thing we should all expect is equal protection under the law. Being offended does not give anyone the legal right to assault anyone. This ruling tramples the victim's rights, and endorses the religious views of the assailant. It is ridiculous.

Our government is meant to be secular for this very reason.

[scoobdog]

You can, however, understand why actions like those these extremists take can install a sense of fear in those who are not Muslim, right? Whether or not the fear is deserved (it rarely is), the dynamics are far different. You can't blame the media for it because the fact of the matter is that the actions many extremists take are designed to be as iconic as they are unreasonable. Even they OP referred atheist attack was done in a public setting and in a manner that doesn't entirely belie its true intent. The image of a bloodied "zombie Mohammad" or a dead NATO soldier, or the hulking remains of the WTC all equally convey the intended point without any additional commentary.

[Mjöllnir]

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Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

---

Mjöllnir wrote:

---

Chappi_The_Rabbit wrote:

As a Muslim, I know for a fact that the main reason why other Muslims get angry when Muhammad is depicted in any way is because it is a religious thing. In Islam, it is a no-no to draw or act like Muhammad in any way, and that includes dressing up as a zombie Muhammad deliberately angering a faith for kicks and giggles. Not saying that there should be a nation-wide legalization of abuse against those who insult Muhammad, but have some #### respect, people. The Zombie Pope didn't get attacked because the pope is just a figurehead in the grand scheme of things. If he was dressed like Zombie Jebus now, that's where you'll see Catholic's flip their ####

---

Have some respect?  Oh Ok.  It should only be legal to attack people if they make fun of your religion. 

   O

   /!\

   / \            <------------stick figure Muhammad.   

(oh noez, i'm marked for death nao)

---

Did you even read my last reply!? I said the guy should be arrested for assault. I just wish that at the very least people would stop trying to make this a reason why Freedom of Religion should be mocked and bastardized as Islam is "the religion of terrorism" and all that sh!t. I'm not that religious so I don't care too much when people draw Muhammad (hell, I actually found International Draw Muhammad Day to be hilarious). Just don't be a fvcking d!ck about it, like you are right now by thinking that your being "lulz edgy" with the stick figure Muhammad. Grow the fvck up.

---

No. I'm not going to grow the fuk up.  Being a fucking dick isn't against tos. 

dale with it.

[Pinkfrog]

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scoobdog wrote:
You can, however, understand why actions like those these extremists take can install a sense of fear in those who are not Muslim, right? Whether or not the fear is deserved (it rarely is), the dynamics are far different. You can't blame the media for it because the fact of the matter is that the actions many extremists take are designed to be as iconic as they are unreasonable. Even they OP referred atheist attack was done in a public setting and in a manner that doesn't entirely belie its true intent. The image of a bloodied "zombie Mohammad" or a dead NATO soldier, or the hulking remains of the WTC all equally convey the intended point without any additional commentary.

---

The fear currently i guess your right isnt deserved but we still must be vigilant againt religion in laws om the books.

It just irks me alot

How many non muslim americans stood up for the mosque in NY and defended their right to build there?

Then you see all the horrible things going on against non muslims in the middle east and no leaders standing up denouncing beheadings of non muslims.

There is a very very large double standard over there alot of people over look.

Its easy to forget america is the largest and most diverse country on the planet we have learned to live with one another over the years sure there are still backwards tards but they are more and more a minority.

This isnt a problem we can solve through culture like the cold war they dont want our culture they view us as crusaders and infadels.. I have thought about the problem and i dont see a solution.

[alucardsexyghost]

The change has to come from the Islamic community themselves. Unfortunately I think the more we push and try to force them to change the more resistant to change they become. I think the most we can do is giving them gentle nudges. And help the groups of Muslims that do pop up that want to change things.