Bleach

[robertje]

Too much reading for me rofl! anyone wanna summarize what it said lol

[Utae]

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Samurai_Champloo_Fan wrote:

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Texface-Killah wrote:

so uhh... how did Nel... get there?

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If Harribel survived, then Grimmjow better still be alive and get his Vegeta moment soon...

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Grimmjow is confirmed dead, and so is every espada except Harribel. So you'd better not expect them show up again.

[HardcoreHunter]

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Utae wrote:

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Samurai_Champloo_Fan wrote:

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Texface-Killah wrote:

so uhh... how did Nel... get there?

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If Harribel survived, then Grimmjow better still be alive and get his Vegeta moment soon...

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Grimmjow is confirmed dead, and so is every espada except Harribel. So you'd better not expect them show up again.

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Grimm is still alive Kubo did a Q&A where he said which espada are alive and the likelyness of them showing up again before this arc was made.

0. Yammy – N/A, he’s dead
1. Stark – extremely unlikely
2. Barragan – N/A, dead
3. Harribel – unlikely
4. Ulquiorra – N/A, dead
5. Nnoitra – extremely unlikely
6. Grimmjow – very likely
7. Zommari – extremely unlikely
8. Szayel – N/A dead
9. Aaroniero – N/A, dead
Previous No 3. Nel – very likely

So Stark, Harribel, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, Zommari, and Nel are all still alive.

[Blah_canbespanish]

That was done by Kubo's editor, not Kubo himself. Kubo has been incredibly vague on whether or not Grimmjow is alive or dead. Originally he WAS supposed to be dead, but due to his (in Kubo's eyes) surprising popularity he may turn up again after all.

But that chart is (sadly) complete BS, we even see Zommari disintegrate after Byakuya is done with him

[ben0119]

Aw, my posts got passed over. Maybe it was because they were at the bottom of that page, or maybe nobody had anything to add.  Ah well...

I've already read that before, but it didn't hurt to read it again.  And the part about Yammy's dog is still really sad.  After all, the dog never knew that Yammy was a massive douche bag.  He just misses his master.  Poor doggy.

And yeah, it is "good" that Sasakibe died because it showed Kubo is willing to change his ways, somewhat, but it's annoying that it happened so suddenly, and we didn't even get to see him fight.  Also, we'll be even more hard-pressed to know what he meant by "They can... Bankai".  Did he mean they can use it, or just disable/destroy/seal it?  Maybe there is hope, since from Yamamoto's expression, he seemingly knew what he meant.

And I'm not sure how Blah_canbespanish could dislike the new villain.  Like DarbyBoy said, the guy gives asbolutely no fucks, and you have to respect that!

I also don't think that just having Hallibel means that that is how they are keeping Hollows and Arrancar in line. Possibly, they might just be ruling by sheer force of power and occupation.  But, if there's any Arrancar around that respect and care for her, they'll do what the King says if they don't want anything to happen.  

Also, they're destroying tons of hollows just to cause an imbalance between the flow of souls between worlds that will destory Soul Society, and the King finds Arrancar expendable.  So, they probably also listen for fear of their lives.  And as stated, the King rules through fear.  I think just the fact that they have her at all, and took over all of Hueco Mundo already, (not to mention killing a Lieutenant, along with 106 regular squad members of the first division) shows that they are not meant to be messed with.

[samurai_omega]

Most likely they can disable/destroy it by gathering info from Ivan's encounter with Ichigo.

*vanish*

[NaClO]

So now Grimmy is Schrodinger's cat >.>

Alive and dead until we observe him <.<

[ben0119]

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samurai_omega wrote:
Most likely they can disable/destroy it by gathering info from Ivan's encounter with Ichigo.

*vanish*

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Thanks! You seem to be the only one besides me who saw it that way!

[samurai_omega]

This might be the case. Though, I do hope he's alive.

[Blah_canbespanish]

He is a painfully boring and generic villain thus far.

Admittedly some of it is also that, if these guys do end up being Quincy related, he's sort of killed most of my interest in the storyline. I was really looking forward to seeing some enemies who are potentially morally grey - with some real sympathetic/logical motivations - rather than pointlessly evil like this nonsense.

Kubo sort of touched upon this with parts of the Hueco Mundo plotline, but it was largely ignored in favor of making nearly everyone illogically cruel and evil for no reason. Ginjo fell into the same trap, given his history he had a lot of potential. I couldn't take anything he said seriously though by the end when he finally got around to making his case, by that point he had already done too many reprehensible things for no reason.

Pointless evil can be fun, but it needs more to it than that or it get stale. At least Aizen had charisma and style. This guy is about as "badass" as Yammy.

[forethought]

Ginjo takes out his mask and starts carving ichigo apart... ichigo dies..

[DarkLadyRaven]

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Blah_canbespanish wrote:
He is a painfully boring and generic villain thus far.

Admittedly some of it is also that, if these guys do end up being Quincy related, he's sort of killed most of my interest in the storyline. I was really looking forward to seeing some enemies who are potentially morally grey - with some real sympathetic/logical motivations - rather than pointlessly evil like this nonsense.

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Quincys are the definition of moral grey. They , in their eyes, were minding thier own business protecting living humans from corrupted souls. And here comes the soul reapers in the words of Bender killing and harming Quincy. Killing the same humans that according to soul reaper vows from chapter 1 are sworn to protect. Now they want revenge-- who can blame them. They are just going about it the wrong way-- why target ichigo

[HardcoreHunter]

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DarkLadyRaven wrote:

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Blah_canbespanish wrote:
He is a painfully boring and generic villain thus far.

Admittedly some of it is also that, if these guys do end up being Quincy related, he's sort of killed most of my interest in the storyline. I was really looking forward to seeing some enemies who are potentially morally grey - with some real sympathetic/logical motivations - rather than pointlessly evil like this nonsense.

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Quincys are the definition of moral grey. They , in their eyes, were minding thier own business protecting living humans from corrupted souls. And here comes the soul reapers in the words of Bender killing and harming Quincy. Killing the same humans that according to soul reaper vows from chapter 1 are sworn to protect. Now they want revenge-- who can blame them. They are just going about it the wrong way-- why target ichigo

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Because if they targeted some guy named Phil in Alaska it wouldn't be much of a story.

[Blah_canbespanish]

That's sort of my point. The Quincy actually would have valid justification. These Vandenreich guys are pretty black and white so far though.

Pointlessly killing/torturing your own comrades doesn't really factor in at all. It accomplishes nothing other than making the villain look "ruthless", which could of been done a dozen better ways without making him out to be a psychopath.

[HardcoreHunter]

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Blah_canbespanish wrote:
That's sort of my point. The Quincy actually would have valid justification. These Vandenreich guys are pretty black and white so far though.

Pointlessly killing/torturing your own comrades doesn't really factor in at all. It accomplishes nothing other than making the villain look "ruthless", which could of been done a dozen better ways without making him out to be a psychopath.

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Who knows, the japanese have always had an odd look on what makes a good leader.  Being a saint or a psychopath was a fine line it seems in japan. Much of that I think has to do with treating all nobles especially the emperor with god like worshiping admiration even when most were anything but that.

[Utae]

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HardcoreHunter wrote:

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Utae wrote:

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Samurai_Champloo_Fan wrote:

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Texface-Killah wrote:

so uhh... how did Nel... get there?

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If Harribel survived, then Grimmjow better still be alive and get his Vegeta moment soon...

---

Grimmjow is confirmed dead, and so is every espada except Harribel. So you'd better not expect them show up again.

---

Grimm is still alive Kubo did a Q&A where he said which espada are alive and the likelyness of them showing up again before this arc was made.

0. Yammy – N/A, he’s dead
1. Stark – extremely unlikely
2. Barragan – N/A, dead
3. Harribel – unlikely
4. Ulquiorra – N/A, dead
5. Nnoitra – extremely unlikely
6. Grimmjow – very likely
7. Zommari – extremely unlikely
8. Szayel – N/A dead
9. Aaroniero – N/A, dead
Previous No 3. Nel – very likely

So Stark, Harribel, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, Zommari, and Nel are all still alive.

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Nope. That's the EDITOR'S guesses. Not Kubo. Kubo himself confirmed last year in the character book UNMASKED that Harribel was the only espada to survive the war. I find it funny though people didn't even consider that this chart might be bs. It was obvious Zommari turned into dust, so it's impossible for him to be alive.

[Blah_canbespanish]

I don't...I don't know where to begin.

For one thing let's just be clear that the "Empire of Japan" is no more, and the kind of thing you're talking about hasn't been practiced since the end of WWII. Let's also mention that they haven't "always" had this kind of outlook, in fact the Emperor of Japan was often a fairly ceremonial figurehead just as he is today. The rampant cult like fanaticism/propaganda that they employed during the late 19th/early 20th centuries is not indicative of Japan's history as a whole. It's much more modern, and I can't imagine any modern day Japanese person following such beliefs.

It's also worth mentioning that while many noblemen and the like claimed divine heritage, this is something that was practiced pretty much the world over at various points in history by different governments in an attempt to control the populace. The more Western "divine right of kings" is a good example on our end, but you can find it pretty much everywhere. It is not some oddly unique aspect to Asia. Likewise traits generally attributed to good leaders are fairly universal, to all countries and time periods.

Aizen is far closer to the type of leader you are talking about, as he practically indoctrinated a large group of hollows into believing he was a messiah come to free them from the darkness of Hueco Mundo. He also knew that sheer brute force is not enough to properly lead/control.

Asides from all of the above, I'm not really sure what any of this has to do with someone's wanton cruelty to their own men. Even if these Vandenreich guys "do" end up having some sort of godlike reverence towards "King", it doesn't really change the fact he is still quite morally black thus far and rather boring because of it.

TL: DR: King needs more style if he can't be bothered to have more than a one dimensional personality.

[forethought]

ICHIGO DIED??????!11111111111111111

[HardcoreHunter]

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Blah_canbespanish wrote:
I don't...I don't know where to begin.

For one thing let's just be clear that the "Empire of Japan" is no more, and the kind of thing you're talking about hasn't been practiced since the end of WWII. Let's also mention that they haven't "always" had this kind of outlook, in fact the Emperor of Japan was often a fairly ceremonial figurehead just as he is today. The rampant cult like fanaticism/propaganda that they employed during the late 19th/early 20th centuries is not indicative of Japan's history as a whole. It's much more modern, and I can't imagine any modern day Japanese person following such beliefs.

It's also worth mentioning that while many noblemen and the like claimed divine heritage, this is something that was practiced pretty much the world over at various points in history by different governments in an attempt to control the populace. The more Western "divine right of kings" is a good example on our end, but you can find it pretty much everywhere. It is not some oddly unique aspect to Asia. Likewise traits generally attributed to good leaders are fairly universal, to all countries and time periods.

Aizen is far closer to the type of leader you are talking about, as he practically indoctrinated a large group of hollows into believing he was a messiah come to free them from the darkness of Hueco Mundo. He also knew that sheer brute force is not enough to properly lead/control.

Asides from all of the above, I'm not really sure what any of this has to do with someone's wanton cruelty to their own men. Even if these Vandenreich guys "do" end up having some sort of godlike reverence towards "King", it doesn't really change the fact he is still quite morally black thus far and rather boring because of it.

TL: DR: King needs more style if he can't be bothered to have more than a one dimensional personality.

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You are forgetting that most of this manga has a society based on old war and states era philosophy. The whole SS is based on that old structure of social class and upholding a status quo. Really what's the difference in cutting down your own guy who didn't listen to orders or say imprison people for crimes that they didn't do. Everyone seems to have a flawed system. The SS go's to such extents to prevent crime and keep order that it makes worse problems like the current one. It's sort of like batman to an extent. He tries to stop a bank robbery but accidentally knocks a guy into acid and he becomes the joker. In this case they tried to kill the quincy to keep them from messing up the soul flow, but instead it really p!ssed them off and now a psycho is their leader.

[LordJupiter]

Heck almost every filler arc happens because they try to prevent something and ends up causing the very problem they were trying to prevent!

They are lucky that Ichigo is a idiot who based his faith on something that was a lie instead of realizing that Ginjo IS right. They planned on exterminating him alongside Ginjo originally. Ichigo ended up forcing them to change and in the process they decided not to kill him afterall.

[DarkLadyRaven]

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Blah_canbespanish wrote:
He is a painfully boring and generic villain thus far.

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Has an shonen manga ever really had a villain that one would consider complex? Not knowing the complete makeup of the genre I am not certain

[udsha]

wtf is Kubo telling us now that the Squad 1 Lt. mastered his bankai before Ukitake and Kyoraku? As if even having a bankai is enough of an asspull to begin with?

[Samurai_Champloo_Fan]

To fool us into thinking Sasakibe wasn't a severely underdeveloped character, but a completely loyal, unambitious pacifist? To make the guys who took him out seem strong? Because he just doesn't give a shit anymore? I'm leaning toward the last one, myself...

He had a middle name, too! Totally relevant information...

Also, Nazis...

[udsha]

Then how did Byakuya nearly kill Ichigo minutes after Ichigo beat this dude with his bare hands? You know given Byakuya didn't even know what the word bankai meant by the time he had already mastered one.

[HardcoreHunter]

Oh look out they killed the first lieutenant.

Not like we didn't see ichigo one hit ko him with his fist in the first season. It's really the extent of killing someones pet to tell them how serious you are. I think everyone was more amazed that they were able to get in and out of the SS without one of Kukkaku's cannonball things.