Cowboy Bebop

[BrocksGirl]

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YUQ49120 wrote:
You haven't watched the series thro?! Better get on it! o.0 How about the movie?

From Episode 1

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no not yet, only seen thru ep 8 or 9 i think. sweet gifs!

[VicodinEs]

Nifty thread.

A good reason to dust off my dvds and watch them and then discussing.

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

That's why I love doing these discussions because I can get a different perspective reading other people's posts that I may have not thought about before.

[Jingai]

   The Reviews. I am purposely going to merely offer a few ideas for discussion, and not

actually write a complete synopsis of the episode. I feel that this is a better way to

spark discussion with these episodes, the themes they present and what we all noticed.

   Session 1 : Asteroid Blues.

                     Spike and Jet, and a bit of their personalities. Spike seems far more care-free than Jet,

       and both seem to be able to handle themselves.

                     Did anyone else find it odd the way Spike answered the old shaman, by saying he was already

      killed by a woman.

                     The ending seemed distinctly opposite of what I was expecting, given the over all mood of the

    episode, and the way the characters all were introduced. I dis find it a bit sad in a way myself.

                     One thing that strikes me about this episode more than anything else, is how it sets the tone

   of the series thus far, with regards to women and men. It is distinctly opposite the usual roles assumed by both sexes,

   and definitely not something like Death Note.

   Session 2 : Stray Dog Strut.

                      Ein, the Welsh Corgi, and data dog. It isn't really spelled out what that is, beyond being

         illegal, and apparently worth money to collectors. It does appear to have improved Ein's intelligence.

                      I do like the way Spike complains about hating kids and pets, yet he grudgingly accepts Ein.

         He even goes out of his way to save Ein, eventually, so it does reveal a bit of Spike's character. 

                      Did anyone else get a Miyazaki vibe from this episode? The way the truck was rolling through town

         with the dogs following, or the pet store owner, and her outlandish dress. I kept on being reminded of Howl's

         Moving Castle with this episode.

  Alright, we have a few points to discuss now about the first two episodes, but I and others want to hear

your points as well. We are all in this together, so feel free to ask and bring up points I have left out.

Next Friday, I will put up the points on Sessions 3 and 4, but we can always talk about one and two.

Until then.

              See you later Space Cowboy.

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

I'm liking your reviews and your (potential) discussion topics. Even though I've seen these episodes like a gazillion times I'm still gonna pull out my DVDs and watch them more closely and keep your topics in mind while doing so. I'll try and get my opinions up sometime this weekend.

[scoobdog]

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Jingai wrote:

   One thing that strikes me about this episode more than anything else, is how it sets the tone

   of the series thus far, with regards to women and men. It is distinctly opposite the usual roles assumed by both sexes,

   and definitely not something like Death Note.

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A rather broad statment- what do you mean?

[Jingai]

   Without getting ahead of ourselves, I will say that in comparison to say, Death Note, where

women are portrayed as weak willed, ignorant, or emotionally unstable, what we have seen

so far is that women are every bit the equal of their male counter-parts, in that there are no

inexplicable acts of emotional instability, nor are they portrayed as being inherently weak.

At this point, we only really have two examples of women, both of which are certainly

strong willed, and every bit as capable as any man portrayed thus far.  

[scoobdog]

Yes, that is certainly true.  Oddly enough, I don't think Misa (Death Note)and Katerina are all that different:  they both are essentially weak willed women who enable a partner who is on a self-destruct cycle.  The difference obviously is partially in the presentation: Death Note is a pot boiler and one would hardly expect the supporting characters to act in a way that detracts from the main protagonist. This kind of expectation is exactly what CB introduces us to with scenery and characters that seem cut right out of spaghetti western, but then those same characters refuse to blend in. Katerina's limited dialog gives her less space to develop, so part of our read on her is based on her physical actions which do not match her own words or our expectations of her. Compared to Misa, she acts and moves more like a real woman, weak as she is, would.

Interstingly, she is often held up as an example of foreshadowing, but, as the series progresses, her perceived role changes retrospectively.

[cidthekittyisfun]

huh coincdently me bf and i just wateched the first dvd today... he wanted to watch it..

oh yay! i can totally talk about the first 2 ep..

ep 1 - its good, i havent seen it in a little while but its still fresh in my mind.. for soem reason ep. 1 doesnt play in me bfs dvd but thats ok... i like this one.. it gives us an idea of how spike and jet work together, and introed us a bit into spikes past.. so thats good.

ep. 2 - ZOMFG EIIINNN!!!!!!! that doggy is sooo cuuteeee!! and yea i soo want a welch corgie everytime i watch that ep. anyways, yeah i noticed that even tho spike says he hates pets.. he still saved the dog.. sooo we all know he secretly likes the doggy.. spike jsut dusoent wanna admit it and what else? omg the kids were hallerious!

ah well sorry i dont gots much to say, later on i will

Message Edited by cidthekittyisfun on 06-14-2008 12:01 AM

[KobraFang4721]

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Jingai wrote:

                    Did anyone else find it odd the way Spike answered the old shaman, by saying he was already

      killed by a woman.

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Yes.... the first time I saw this session I wuz very confused. 

It wasn't until the end of the series that I finally figured out what he was talking about.

[u_been_bleached]

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KobraFang4721 wrote:

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Jingai wrote:

                    Did anyone else find it odd the way Spike answered the old shaman, by saying he was already

      killed by a woman.

---

Yes.... the first time I saw this session I wuz very confused. 

It wasn't until the end of the series that I finally figured out what he was talking about.

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That's kind of the point, actually, and why it's good to rewatch shows like this, ones with a lot of depth to them.

[Jingai]

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u_been_bleached wrote:

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KobraFang4721 wrote:

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Jingai wrote:

                    Did anyone else find it odd the way Spike answered the old shaman, by saying he was already

      killed by a woman.

---

Yes.... the first time I saw this session I wuz very confused. 

It wasn't until the end of the series that I finally figured out what he was talking about.

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That's kind of the point, actually, and why it's good to rewatch shows like this, ones with a lot of depth to them.

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I mention that point because it is something that will make more sense as the show progresses,

one of those things that your teachers used to say "Make sure you write this down, you will see it again."

That being said, let us remember that not everyone here has seen the entire series. Maybe we should sit

on this topic for a bit, at least for a while.  

[scoobdog]

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Jingai wrote:

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u_been_bleached wrote:

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KobraFang4721 wrote:

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Jingai wrote:

                    Did anyone else find it odd the way Spike answered the old shaman, by saying he was already

      killed by a woman.

---

Yes.... the first time I saw this session I wuz very confused. 

It wasn't until the end of the series that I finally figured out what he was talking about.

---

That's kind of the point, actually, and why it's good to rewatch shows like this, ones with a lot of depth to them.

---

I mention that point because it is something that will make more sense as the show progresses,

one of those things that your teachers used to say "Make sure you write this down, you will see it again."

That being said, let us remember that not everyone here has seen the entire series. Maybe we should sit

on this topic for a bit, at least for a while.  

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That comment isn't just an example of long term foreshadowing though.  It does establish Spike's general attitude toward women and it gives something of an explanation as to why Spike is so cavalier toward Katerina.

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on your opinion regarding the gender role theory as compared to Death Note. Both women in the series are very true to the way women behave, but you have to take into account personality as well. We don't fit into one set mold. Even though both women (Misa and Katerina) have had some trying times, their personalites are what sets them apart and and it relates to how they will handle their given situations. However, both women are a bit naive, to say the least, when it comes to the men that they love (and I can say from experience that that is quite common among women, and I'm sure the same can be said for men). I don't think Katerina's role is opposite from what we usually see. She just handles things in a different light, but she is very typical when it comes to women doing what they think will make them happy. She is convinced that she will be happier on Mars, but she doesn't take into account that Asimov will still be the same man on Mars as he is on Earth. She comes to this realization a bit too late and thus you get the ending we are presented with. If you follow her personality and how it relates to her feelings towards Asimov, IMO, that was the only way the episode could end.
Now, I'm off to watch episode 2 and see if I can discover a topic that attracts my interest.

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

I think one reason Spike doesn't like pets and kids is because he is very similar to them. All 3 need looking after to some degree otherwise they cause a whole mess of trouble. I also noticed that the liscence plate on the van that was following Hakim is the serial number for the USS Enterprise from Star Trek. Just a little something I picked up for the first time.

[Alchemistress]

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iloveyuyuhakusho wrote:
I think one reason Spike doesn't like pets and kids is because he is very similar to them. All 3 need looking after to some degree otherwise they cause a whole mess of trouble. I also noticed that the liscence plate on the van that was following Hakim is the serial number for the USS Enterprise from Star Trek. Just a little something I picked up for the first time.

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I think he doesn't like be responsible for anything but himself...

...and that kids and pets are dirty and noisy and annoying

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

I was thinking about the responsibility point as well. I think it also has to do a little bit with control. Spike likes to be in control of any given situation and that just isn't going to happen with kids and pets.

[GypsyWoman72]

great first 2 episodes! i love the Jet/Spike interaction - bell peppers & beef with no beef had me cracking up!
i think i'll wait to comment on the portrayal of women in the series until i've seen more episodes. i hope we get some stronger/smarter women than Death Note has.

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

Yeah, that scene always manages to put a smile on my face.

[Jingai]

  I just don't get the same feeling of blatant misogyny from Cowboy Bebop

that I get from Death Note. Yes, Katerina was in some ways similar to Misa, in

that she was clinging desperately to something that she could never have, but

in Bebop, she comes to that realization, and ultimately does what she thinks 

is her only option, albeit with some poignancy, producing an emotionally moving moment.

In Death Note, I don't see anything like that happening with Misa, although I have yet to

see the series completely, or read it, I'd suspect a rather ignominious fate to befall Misa.

@Gypsy : I love the bell pepper scene myself. That is why rule number 6 in the OP is there.  

[iloveyuyuhakusho]

I guess I misunderstood your original post then. I was thinking that you were trying to say that Katernia doesn't fit the mold of how a female is supposed to act, wheras Misa does. Sorry for the confusion.

[Jingai]

 Don't apologize, I was purposely a bit vague in order to get people to share their thoughts.

[GypsyWoman72]

Are we on eps 3 & 4 now? (needs to watch those tonight then)

[mahala_la_la]

I think 3 and 4 will be the episodes discussed on Friday.

[GypsyWoman72]

ah, cool, thanks! i'll watch tonight anyway