Reply
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

The Jet Black Fan Club

It appears that the "A little love for Mr. Black..." thead got deleted, so I'm going to start it again. After all, we all need a place to discuss our underappreciated captain of the BeBop.

So, who wants to show a little love?
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
Still Gold
R.I.P.vegeta2005
Posts: 22
Registered: 01-20-2004
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

Jet rules!!!!
ADULT SWIM RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moltar Loyalist
R.I.P.The_Muffin_Man
Posts: 183
Registered: 01-30-2004
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to R.I.P.vegeta2005 - Message ID#: 1190700

Jet is, by far, the best character on the show. He pwns.
******************************************************
I bet I can think of three reasons right off the top of my head why I'm ten times better than you'll ever be.
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

Why in the world did they delete it?? I don't recall anything offensive or chatty or off topic about it, certainly no more so than any other threads here.

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
Still Gold
R.I.P.bebopgirl89
Posts: 86
Registered: 10-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1195423

Jet's cool!:smileyhappy:
****************Obnoxious little frog**************
????????I dont know and have no opinion?????????
Still Gold
R.I.P.UsingmyFoot
Posts: 12
Registered: 01-30-2004
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

I agree that Jet is a very under rated character and without him the Bebop would not even exist. Jet keeps the crew together can you imagine the Bebop without him Spike would have killed Faye and Ed. Ein would have been grilled the day Spike got him.         Give it up for the Black Dog. 
Ryo-Ohki's Carrot
R.I.P.Legato311
Posts: 2,067
Registered: 01-06-2004
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

Jet is the man...Bebop wouldn't be the same without him
"We spend our lives learning. If you like learning, life is large."
311
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1195423

That's a good question. The mods were going around deleting duplicate threads, and this one was near the "Is Jet Black...black?" thread. Maybe they thought it was a duplicate?
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
Moltar Loyalist
R.I.P.MzValentine
Posts: 112
Registered: 10-28-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

I'm gonna show some love for Jet.  I was always a huge fan of his, and he is underappreciated.  It's great to have threads like this.  :smileyhappy:
Faye-- [about Ed]...Hey! You're a Girl!...
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1199694



scoobdog wrote:
That's a good question. The mods were going around deleting duplicate threads, and this one was near the "Is Jet Black...black?" thread. Maybe they thought it was a duplicate?



Is there any recourse to get them to put it back or is it gone for good once it's gone?

Ah well, here's a question for the masses that I've never seen discussed before, nor is it ever noted at all in the series: What's the purpose of that little strip of metal on Jet's face? Wouldn't a skin graft have been more effective than rivets at holding his face together? Do you think he got it and the scar across his eye in the same ambush as the one that cost him his arm, or something else? How did he avoid losing his eye when he got the scar?

Discuss. Compare and contrast, single spaced typed, one page or less, with references footnoted. No copying, you're on your honor.

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
Ryo-Ohki's Carrot
Zenbetta
Posts: 1,291
Registered: 11-01-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1203859

Much love and respect for Jet. It's hard being the sensible one in a group of spontaneous people (Faye,Spike,Ed).

Besides, as my dearly departed great uncle used to say when asked why he didn't get a toupee,

"A bald head is a solar panel for a sex machine"

You go Space Bald Boy.
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

[ Edited ]

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1203859

I was always under the impression that the strip under his eye was in fact that control to his arm. I think it was mentioned in the Bebop Guru thread from way back, but that doesn't mean that is what it actually is.

Do you have any ideas on what it means? Since Jet never refers to his own sight, I assume that he doesn't have any issues with hallucinations or dream-state visions. Actually, the one time he does hallucinate, in Mushroom Samba, he is talking to the bonzai tree: there isn't any evidence that he sees the plant talking to him. At any rate, I don't know what that plate would fix; it seems a bit small for any structural repairs to his skull and any nerves for his eye would not be located below it. Maybe it was simply a matter of character design on the part of the art director. He does look bad@ss with it.

I don't think you can bring back those old threads, but maybe it wouldn't hurt for me to ask a mod about it.

Message Edited by scoobdog on 02-06-2004 12:23 AM

How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1204027



scoobdog wrote:
I was always under the impression that the strip under his eye was in fact that control to his arm. I think it was mentioned in the Bebop Guru thread from way back, but that doesn't mean that is what it actually is.

Do you have any ideas on what it means? ... He does look bad@ss with it.

Not a clue and indeed he does!

How could he control his arm from his face?

 

Oh, and zenbetta, I'm still chuckling over the solar panel quote. :smileyvery-happy:

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
Still Gold
R.I.P.Lpfayekool
Posts: 5
Registered: 10-03-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1190630

I think Jet is the man remember that episode when he went to see his old girlfriend and at the end the reason why she broke up with him because he was a good  man and he knows what's right and what she was doing was wrong.  That makes me mad because she never deserved him in the first place.:smileymad:
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1209159


GinaSzanboti wrote:
How could he control his arm from his face?



I thought it was connected to his brain at that point. The right hemisphere of the brain does control the left side's motor functions.

On a completley different topic, just a random musing...

[SPOILERS]

I was just thinking about Jet's Tamatebako story from Speak Like A Child. Its one of the few instances in Cowboy Bebop that Jet actually gets to play the father, but it is also one of the many times where you can see that he is not in sync with Spike. Ed is enraptures with the story and asks all kinds of questions, but Spike is too easily distracted by the mention of halibut and bream and, of course, treasure. At the same time, neither of them seems to get the story at all: Ed seems to be hung up on the word "tamatebako" and loses track of what the name refers to almost immediately, and Spike is his usual self. As a matter of fact, the story get buried immediately, since, before we can find out what Tamatebako really is, a courier drops out of the sky and the episode begins.

Just the fact that Jet is being a story teller is remarkable in itself. Jet seems to be generally unwilling to talk much about himself or his past. When Fad asks Jet how his arm will feel if Udai is allowed to escape, Jet responds that it is "old news" (the subs say "old story") that doesn't interest him anymore. Earlier, in Ballad of Fallen Angels, Jet comes clean with Spike about the Udai incident not by telling him how he lost his arm, but simply be describing the loss as a result of headstrong behavior. Jet has no problem recognizing what happened and what the results are, but he doesn't make any attempt to put a narrative and, therefore, a context to the arm.

By comparison, Spike is a natural storyteller, even if it isn't readily apparent. There's been much discussion in the "Spike's Eye..." thread about what he actually means when he tells Julia that he sees the past in his left eye, but there's a good chance that he is being figurative when he says it, especially when you take into account the heart wrenching striped cat story in RFB2. Everyone knows the cat fable is a fictionalized retelling of Spike and Julia's tragedy, but it is so typical of Spike to find a way to tell a story about a cat who's heart breaks rather than just saying that his heart is broken. It would be in character for Spike to describe himself as looking backward with one eye rather than simply saying the eye is a reminder of what he once was.

Of course, Jet's way of revealing his past is no less inclusive; its just different. Jet literally collects his life story. He collects a handful of former ISSP colleagues who he alternately swaps good natured hellos with and plies for bounty information. He collects informants, such as the doctor who leaks info on Hakim and then later patches him up. He has Fad; he has Alysa. Most importantly, he has "treasures" he's collected from his adventures, such as his arm and the broken watch. We piece Jet's story together from the people and things around him.

In the same way, the fairly tale Jet recounts is all about collection. Tamatebako itself is an item to be collected; it is given to the man by the dragons of Ryuuguujou, an extension of the turtle's reward. But, the chest only contains the final memento which Jet reveals to Spike as they are searching on Earth for the Beta cassette player: the old age that results from a life full of "beautiful women" and " scrumptious feasts," or in Spike and Jet's case, tramping through a flooded hallway to find an antique videotape deck. The thing is, its left up to us, the viewers, to decide whether content of the chest is good or bad.

Perhaps this foreshadows the moment where Jet is staring off into space as Spike takes off from the BeBop for the last time? Maybe this is the moment where Jet realizes that he is all that remains from their time together; Jet himself becomes the collection of memories of Spike.
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
Ryo-Ohki's Carrot
Zenbetta
Posts: 1,291
Registered: 11-01-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1212088

If I was still in school, I'd print that one out and turn it in for English Comp class. Wow.
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to Zenbetta - Message ID#: 1212320

Thanks!

I kinda used too many words to say too little. I guess it isn't a good thing I'm getting graded.
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1212088


scoobdog wrote:
[SPOILERS]

I was just thinking about Jet's Tamatebako story from Speak Like A Child. Its one of the few instances in Cowboy Bebop that Jet actually gets to play the father, but it is also one of the many times where you can see that he is not in sync with Spike. Ed is enraptures with the story and asks all kinds of questions, but Spike is too easily distracted by the mention of halibut and bream and, of course, treasure. At the same time, neither of them seems to get the story at all: Ed seems to be hung up on the word "tamatebako" and loses track of what the name refers to almost immediately...

...Tamatebako itself is an item to be collected; it is given to the man by the dragons of Ryuuguujou, an extension of the turtle's reward. But, the chest only contains the final memento which Jet reveals to Spike as they are searching on Earth for the Beta cassette player: the old age that results from a life full of "beautiful women" and " scrumptious feasts," or in Spike and Jet's case, tramping through a flooded hallway to find an antique videotape deck. The thing is, its left up to us, the viewers, to decide whether content of the chest is good or bad.



I love the story of the Tamatebako and Jet's telling of it! I love that they're doing laundry while he tells it and Ed's rapt fascination with it. But I'm afraid I have to disagree that Ed lost track of what it referred to. I think she was making a rather clever joke when she asked if it was a turtle. The fact that she pointed to the turtle-shaped delivery craft suggests to me that she totally got that it was a treasure box, just like the arriving craft bearing "gifts."

I also got a different message from the tale than you did. I don't know the whole story (you very well may), only the parts told in CB, but the Tamatebako struck me as sort of a Pandora's box, to be treasured but never opened (i.e., "curiosity: bad."). It didn't sound to me like he got to live that life of women and feasts because his curiosity made him open the box so the box stole his lifetime, making him instantly old. Maybe it would help me see the meaning of the story if I knew why the turtle had rewarded him in the first place. At any rate, it bears some more scrutiny when I'm more awake. :smileyhappy:

For some reason, this is one episode I've never thought too much about, despite the parts of it I adore, and its pivotal role in the storyline. Maybe I took Jet's assessment of it in the previews too seriously. :smileywink:

Great post, Scoob. Thanks for making me look a little deeper at it.

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

[ Edited ]

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1214339

I'm not sure if this is even a real fairy tale; everything I know about it is what I was able to decipher from Jet in Speak Like A Child. It probably is worth a shot to look up the names and see if there's a story attached.

You're right about Ed; she certainly isn't clueless and the joke is very clever (the writers were particularly clever to segue the fairy tale into the tortise and hare delivery services). At the same time, her attention does wander far enough that she sees the courier service coming before Jet hears the ships engines.

As you said, the ending could be validly interpreted as being a "pandora's box" on the strong parallels it evokes from that Greek myth alone. But, in this case I chose to take a different tack because it fit better with what I was saying about Jet as a collector. In addition, fairy tales do tend equate old age with wisdom, so I was taking a cue from that. Also, Jet is drawn fairly aged for his 38 years (without knowing, I would have guessed that he was in his late 40's or early 50's) and he also tends to be the "wisest" member of the BeBop crew.

That, of course, depends on if we consider being the voice of warning and reason by itself wise; Jet's cluelessness on women (intentional or otherwise) would not be in line with being wise. Then again, Faye is not an ordinary woman (and I mean that in the worst possible way).

Did you still want to start a thread on Faye? I personally don't find her to be attractive, but she would be a psychiatrist's dream case study. No doubt there is a lot of things that can be said about her that don't involve her anatomy.

Message Edited by scoobdog on 02-07-2004 03:41 PM

How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1218287


scoobdog wrote:
At the same time, her attention does wander far enough that she sees the courier service coming before Jet hears the ships engines.



::grins:: That's because she was facing it while Jet had his back to it while storytelling and working! But that whole sequence is wonderfully entertaining, with Jet in full father mode, and especially all the ways Ed finds to use that laundry basket. It also seems to be yet one more instance where Jet is feeling unappreciated (and with good reason - he's doing all the work while Spike just lays about and Faye is off at the races).

I get the feeling that the Tamatebako story is real. If not, they did a great job of creating a useful fairy tale. After watching the ep again today, I noticed that the story is alluded to three times even before the commercial break and at least a couple more after that.

Unfortunately, all of this still left me wondering what they were trying to say about Faye and the tape. The episode seems to be about hidden treasure, but the fairy tale seems to be saying that treasures are best left in the box unopened. There must be something more to the story than I'm seeing. Maybe you're right about the story considering old age to be a treasure... :/

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1224370

Don't look too hard, that might ruin the Bebop experience.

I just get the feeling that the story isn't real because we hear so little of it. What little Jet gets to say before he is interrupted is just enough to be easily faked by the writers; a more elaborate story might be more obvious.
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
S.A.R.A.
BigBlue1378
Posts: 13,371
Registered: 01-25-2004
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1224594

Jet is definetly the man.  The show wouldn't be the same without him.  Although, sometimes it seems that he is more of a babysitter than a bountyhunter.  After all he has to take care of Ed, Ein, Faye , and Spike.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth.
T.O.M. v3
scoobdog
Posts: 19,616
Registered: 09-13-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to BigBlue1378 - Message ID#: 1224643

I think Faye needs a shrink, so Jet is way overmatched for that.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that we DO need a Faye thread, even if it is to shred her to bits.
How does it feel to be a monster?!

The Luuv Links
S.A.R.A.
GinaSzanboti
Posts: 15,663
Registered: 09-17-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

Reply to scoobdog - Message ID#: 1224594


scoobdog wrote:
Don't look too hard, that might ruin the Bebop experience.

I just get the feeling that the story isn't real because we hear so little of it. What little Jet gets to say before he is interrupted is just enough to be easily faked by the writers; a more elaborate story might be more obvious.



(First of all, to the Mods: If you think this is getting too far off topic, please just delete this post (or move it) and I'll repost in the Underlying Bebop thread. Please don't delete the whole thread again.)

::laughs:: Scoob, you're one to talk! :smileyvery-happy: Nah, no chance of it ruining my Bebop experience - as Spike says, "Now this is the kind of stuff I like!" For those who prefer to keep it superficial, well, you can always change the channel.

A little research has shown that the Tamatebako story is real, a folk tale called "Urashima Taro." I'm pretty jazzed about finding this, because I see now why it is so appropriate for "Speak Like a Child." Here's the story:

------------------------------
"Urashima Taro is a young fisherman who lives on an island where everyone fishes. He lives by himself, with no parents, no wife and no children. Walking along the beach one day, Taro spots some young boys teasing a sea turtle they had captured, poking and beating it with sticks. He buys the turtle from them and sets it free.

"The next morning, Taro is out fishing and encounters the turtle again. The turtle is grateful to Taro and asks him to ride on his back to see Otohime, a princess at the undersea Dragon Palace Ryugujoh (alt. spelling). He finally agrees and is taken to a place of riches and wonders beyond his imagination. After three months of feasting and being attended by beautiful maidens, and enjoying the company of Otohime, he feels homesick and asks to go home. Otohime wants him to stay, but gives him the Tamatebako with the admonition to keep it to remember her and never open it (in some versions she tells him to open it in times of trouble or despair, which seems to be the version relevent to Bebop), and sends him back home on the turtle.

"When he arrives home, everything is different, everything he remembers is gone, and none of the people he meets remember him. One old woman recalls his name from her grandparents and says the man went into the sea 300 years ago and never returned.

"With nothing and no one left that is familiar to him, Taro feels lonely and lost. Then he remembers the Tamatebako and opens it. There is nothing inside but a white mist, which rises slowly into the air. He breathes it in and smells the mat in his hut, the salty wind of storms he had escaped, the fish he had cleaned, the wine he had offered at the shrines -- the box holds the 300 years Urashima Taro had lost, and as he breaths them in, he becomes a very old man."
----------------------------------

Tamatebako seems to just mean "box" or "casket." Since there is a bud-like camelia named Tamatebako, I suspect the fairy tale lends it the meaning of "treasure chest." In some versions there is also a crane feather, and Taro turns into a crane. Some versions include a tree in the Dragon Palace that rapidly grows leaves, which turn red and drop off, followed by new bud sprouts each day. A long version of it is here:
http://home.clara.co.uk/wabei/xlation/quilt/urashima.htm
A Google search on "Urashima Taro" will turn up lots more.

But the connections between the story and Faye's circumstances are obvious to anyone who knows it (and most Japanese probably do). The cryogenic box is Faye's Ryugujoh (minus the feasts and maidens), and the tape, her Tamatebako full of the old life she once knew (except it doesn't make her old). I wonder if Jet and Spike saw the connection as well, having been talking about that story on and off all day. :smileywink:

Madness is not a place one goes, it’s a spider waiting to feel the tremble of the web. -- GuiltyRed
We're all mad here. - The Cheshire Cat
Moltar Loyalist
R.I.P.WatcherUatu
Posts: 401
Registered: 08-25-2003
0

Re: The Jet Black Fan Club

[ Edited ]

Reply to GinaSzanboti - Message ID#: 1229109



GinaSzanboti wrote:


But the connections between the story and Faye's circumstances are obvious to anyone who knows it (and most Japanese probably do). The cryogenic box is Faye's Ryugujoh (minus the feasts and maidens), and the tape, her Tamatebako full of the old life she once knew (except it doesn't make her old). I wonder if Jet and Spike saw the connection as well, having been talking about that story on and off all day. :smileywink:


Well, in a sense it does (make her old). Remember that she lost the better part of her life when waking up from cryosleep. I'm not up on the ages of the characters, but I'd say she was at least eighteen or so upon revival. Let's call it twenty just to make it a rounder number. Consider that she essentially, then, has only lived as long as she has been floating around since coming out of cryo. Call it what you will. Five years? I don't know. So from her perspective she is five years old--she only has five years of memories. Not that it all comes flooding back to her upon viewing the Beta cassette, but it serves as proof--just as does the smell of "the mat in his hut, the salty wind of storms he had escaped, the fish he had cleaned, the wine he had offered at the shrines" to the boy in the fable--that she had a life, that she existed.  Faye gains at that instant at least some part of twenty years of memories making her not physically older, but in some abstract sense, emotionally and mentally older as well. The moral of both stories is that the treasure changes you for better or for worse, but nothing is the same afterwards.

Message Edited by WatcherUatu on 02-08-2004 08:15 PM