Cowboy Bebop

[R.I.P.CrossPunisher_II]

Not really tryna clown, but Jet looks like a space age garbage man.  His rugged looks and close are jus....I don't know.  we know what Faye looks like.  And Spike looks like a bible salesman wit black Ronald McDonalds shoes.  Ed and Ein look like who they actually are.

[scoobdog]

That's cool. Jet does look like a garbage man. Give him a bad mustache and a famous actor father and he could be in "Men at Work."

[R.I.P.Big_Un1]

You could even say, in a way, he is a garbage man. Cleaning up the trash of humanity.

[R.I.P.WatcherUatu]

ha! A garbage man. I like that.

I've honestly never had a problem with Jet's outfit, for at least two reasons. First, he's the guy who fixes stuff on the Bebop, and his outfit immediately calls to mind: mechanic. Second, he also flies the ship, and his jumpsuit looks something like a tattered, loosely-worn version of the sort of thing Captain Archer and crew wear over on "Enterprise". It looks milataristic to me, what with the shoulder pads, the gold bands on the collar, and the metal-reinforced combat boots. They're working-man's clothes for the line of business he's in. Sort of the Bounty Hunter's uniform.

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:

Jet/Maifa/Boogie Woogie Feng Shui: discuss. Typed, single spaced. Counts for 1/26th of your grade.

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Thanks for the excuse to whip out the Bebop dvds this afternoon, Gina!

As to Jet and the mafia, well, we know he has contacts in various syndicates from his years with the ISSP, as was shown when he confronted the gate syndicate about their coverup in that episode who's name I can't remember right now. You know, the one with the old chess master. It's obvious that Jet doesn't like the syndicates much, even if they are quasi-legal organizations. It's hinted that, in the past, the syndicates were much worse than they are at the time of the series, and we know from Black Dog Serenade [SPOLIER] that the syndicates had infiltrated the ISSP and corrupted many cops, including  Jet's old partner. I think that's one of the reasons Jet didn't seem to think twice or even blink when he broke that one thug's neck with his bionic arm in Boogie Woogie.

I like this episode a lot. Love Jet's voice over throughout the session, reminds me again of the old hard-boiled detective movies. This is another session that shows Jet's caretaker tendencies clearly, despite Spike and Faye's ribbing about having a thing for young girls. The girl captures Jet's heart, but as an older brother. This session is important because it specifically places Jet in the position of older brother or uncle, a role that in ubiquitous throughout the show in his relations with the rest of the Bebop crew.

I also like the fact that he made Spike and Faye smoke outside.

[R.I.P.EveryonesFavorite]

i think he ment maifa, the girl not mafia

but u might know that

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

oops. yeah I misread that. *LOL* Still I'll leave it.

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

Okay, Jet and Maifa (the girl). Again, I think the relationship there really points out Jet's major character trait as a caretaker/uncle/big brother type. Also, how often has anyone ever really sat down and talked with Jet about anything really important like Maifa does in this episode? Jet and Spike communicate in a very typical male way, with jokes and unstated but understood points and feelings, Jet and Faye don't talk, they argue (very older brother and younger sister there), then there's Ed and Ein, and well... you can't really talk to either one. I think Maifa really touches something in Jet by opening up to him, something that he needs. Maybe it's just that she's honest enough to show him she does need him.

I really don't think there's any romantic attraction between them, but I do think Maifa does press all of Jet's big brother/protective instinct buttons, all at once.

This session strongly reinforces most of Jet's character traits. His paitence as first he, then he and Maifa, investigate her father and the sunstone. His soft heart under a rough exterior, and his willingness to help someone when there's really nothing in it for him.

I still say Jet is drawn rough and very big and mean looking as a purposeful contrast to his rather gentle nature.

Message Edited by SolomonMao on 03-16-2004 07:12 PM

[GinaSzanboti]

::still laughing:: Yes, I meant the girl, but I liked both your posts, so maybe it's good you misread it!

I don't think there was anything "romantic" between Jet and Maifa, but there's no question he was checking her out in that scene where they are walking down the street before they eat ice cream in the park. And she catches him at it, and it seems like he's embarrassed that a) she caught him and b) he was doing it. And then there's that Freudian slip about being young enough to be her boyfriend. Plus, there is definitely admiration for her in his voice in Jet's narration, and maybe a little regret that she's not a few years older, or he a few years younger?

It doesn't make him a dirty old man - just a man, and it doesn't seem like many single females come within shouting distance of him (Faye is clearly not available, at least not to Jet). He resisted the temptation and remained a perfect gentleman. But what strikes me as the most interesting part of it is that it didn't seem to even cross his mind until Spike and Faye put the idea in his head via Ed. Up until that moment, he's sitting there in his skivvies (and a white tee!), and she's in that little shift, and they're both completely at ease about it. He's still seeing her as the little girl he knew more than ten years ago. And he doesn't really get a chance to readjust his view until that reflective stroll down the street.

That makes me think that Jet has pretty much resigned himself to being single since Alysa left him. I wonder if that tonsured head of his is symbolic of more than his age?

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:
I don't think there was anything "romantic" between Jet and Maifa, but there's no question he was checking her out in that scene where they are walking down the street before they eat ice cream in the park. And she catches him at it, and it seems like he's embarrassed that a) she caught him and b) he was doing it. And then there's that Freudian slip about being young enough to be her boyfriend. Plus, there is definitely admiration for her in his voice in Jet's narration, and maybe a little regret that she's not a few years older, or he a few years younger?

It doesn't make him a dirty old man - just a man, and it doesn't seem like many single females come within shouting distance of him (Faye is clearly not available, at least not to Jet). He resisted the temptation and remained a perfect gentleman. But what strikes me as the most interesting part of it is that it didn't seem to even cross his mind until Spike and Faye put the idea in his head via Ed. Up until that moment, he's sitting there in his skivvies (and a white tee!), and she's in that little shift, and they're both completely at ease about it. He's still seeing her as the little girl he knew more than ten years ago. And he doesn't really get a chance to readjust his view until that reflective stroll down the street.

That makes me think that Jet has pretty much resigned himself to being single since Alysa left him. I wonder if that tonsured head of his is symbolic of more than his age?

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Yeah, upon further consideration, you are right about him checking her out. That whole line about her energy and her gypsy scarf. And about the idea being planted in his head by Faye and Spike via Ed. Really, what man wouldn't have a second's thought for a pretty, smart 16 year old (or so) girl walking at his side? I caught myself wondering if maybe, after the series ended, a few years down the road, Jet might not look her up again.

[R.I.P.Big_Un1]

altought he did some checking her out, I think he also came to terms with him being too old and nothing would ever happen, hence his not saying anything (other than the one slip) but remained the gentleman

[scoobdog]

I can't be so sure that Jet really does snap that guys neck, but he looks like he wants to real bad.

Anyway, this is my take:

Jet, when he's exacting punishment on the two syndicate goons chasing Maifa, shows a violent side that we are not accustomed to seeing. Jet's tenacity is legendary, but there should be a psychological barrier that stops him from taking the final step, that should stop him from taking the final step. What triggers this barrier, and, more importantly, what would make Jet cross the line?

The pure savageness with which Jet strikes at the goons is something we don't see from Jet until this point. One aspect of this is that Jet would have a natural aversion to all things dishonorable, such as the syndicates, and there is no doubt that the underworld directly led to his loss of limb and self-confidence. At the same time, Jet initially refuses to chase after Udai when he is approached by Fad. Wouldn't he want to go after Udai solely on principle? Yet, that isn't how it happened. For that matter, when Jet lashes out at the goons there appears to be at least a moment where Jet is out of control: something completely out of character for a man known as the "black dog."

Perhaps, Jet's paternal instincts (or maybe that little bit of "mother" bear in him) are taking over. Sense of honor would dictate that Jet take Maifa under his protection. But, Jet isn't in the driver's seat of this adventure; he spends most of his time about a step and a half behind her and the awkward sexual chemistry that is exacerbated by Spike, Faye and Ed makes Jet uneasy. That means there is a conflict between what Jet needs to do and what he can do. It becomes that much harder for Jet to protect her if he can't even control what they are doing or where they are going.

Would he kill to protect her? Killing is the domain of the syndicates and their assassins. He doesn't make much of an attempt to kill Udai in Black Dog Serenade, a hesitancy that might be attributed to distaste. Of course, that's a different situation since there Jet is still in control of the moment: Udai's gun maybe aimed at him, but his response to whatever Udai does is already mapped out in his head. When Maifa finds the stone, she loses track of the goons but Jet does not. Still, he is on a street with limited avenues of escape, and a confrontation with the goons is unavoidable: this is the moment where he has to face his limitations.

If he really does break that guys neck, then there's a whole new set of questions.

[scoobdog]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:
I don't think there was anything "romantic" between Jet and Maifa, but there's no question he was checking her out in that scene where they are walking down the street before they eat ice cream in the park. ... He's still seeing her as the little girl he knew more than ten years ago. And he doesn't really get a chance to readjust his view until that reflective stroll down the street.

That makes me think that Jet has pretty much resigned himself to being single since Alysa left him. I wonder if that tonsured head of his is symbolic of more than his age?

---

I also have a hard time believing that Jet really has any romantic inclinations toward Maifa. No matter what, Jet is off-balance throughout the episode, so the Freudian slip could be attributed to the fact that Spike and Faye's practical joke catches up with him just as he is trying to assert that he isn't so old.

But, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's resigned himself to being single. Jet needs people around him, and in the absence of Alysa, Spike, Faye, Ed and Ein have stepped into the void. More specifically, Jet needs a family, and you could take Alysa's comments as a sign that she didn't fit into the family role Jet needed her to fit into. It doesn't seem like Jet's goals have ever changed, its just that the love interest, or "wife," role as never really been Jet's primary need. If anything, Jet could never truly be single since he would always need someone to protect, love interest or otherwise. Throughout the series, Jet seems to center his life, worries and celebrations, around those who are under his "command" (and I use that term loosely) on the BeBop, just as he was when he smothered Alysa.

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

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scoobdog wrote:

If he really does break that guys neck, then there's a whole new set of questions.

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I think he did break the goon's neck. There was that horrible cracking crunch and the shot was a closeup of Jet's face, absolutely pitiless.

Jet does have a violent side, a killer side. It's usually contained by the gentler aspects of his nature, but it is definately there. I think in this case, it came out as a result of a direct threat against Maifa, who had become someone very important to Jet, a member of his "family" as it were. The most vulnerable member of his family, in fact. In Jet's eye Maifa represented all that was alive and vibrant in life, and all that is honorable (a daughter risking all to find her father). You really don't want to threaten something like that when it's self-appointed protector is someone like Jet.

[GinaSzanboti]

I never thought he broke his neck, despite that hideous crack. It doesn't make sense to kill the one goon and leave the other alive (unless you think Maifa beat her guy to death ). If he's dead, it seems just a bit too ghoulish for the kids to come up and kick the body and rob it without even seeming to notice the man is dead. Jet is well trained in sleeper holds and such to subdue him, and if you've ever been to a chiropractor, you know that hearing your neck crack doesn't mean your neck is broken.

But the biggest reason I just can't believe he killed him is that I don't think he'd kill a man right in front of Maifa and two children.


And well done, everybody! You all pass the assignment!

Message Edited by GinaSzanboti on 03-17-2004 08:15 PM

[scoobdog]

For all the reasons Gina gave, I don't think that Jet would kill them. Beyond that, I still don't think Jet could kill them: his eyes may say pitiless, but he is far from it.

Unfortunately, I was trying to think up examples of what Jet's code of honor says about killing another man. I don't have anything concrete, but, at the same time, a man with Jet's rigid sense of order would have to have a set of rules pertaining to when and how a man can be killed. Jet has the guy in a headlock; there should be no need to further incapacitate a man that is already subdued. It would be unefficent after the fact it would be de facto murder.

[R.I.P.rucksack]

whether he is a killer or not he sure does get violent sometimes. but hes also caring like in the "chessmaster hex" episode when he exposes the guys intention of wrong doing and the  guy asks jet "what do you want " "money?" and he just wants the guy to leave chessmaster alone because hes gotten senile over the years.   see thats cool, but at the same time jet gets mad over c.o.d charges  that he covers for faye and what not, like on tonights episode..its hard to say..  i think he just does what he feels is right.

[scoobdog]

I would just like to thank everyone for their contributions in making this a 200+ post thread. I may have said it somewhere before, but Jet deserves to be the center of attention every once and a while too.

Think we'll ever catch gfish's Inuyasha FAQ thread?

Message Edited by scoobdog on 03-18-2004 12:35 AM

[R.I.P.SolomonMao]

Catch gfish's thread? Nah, I doubt it. Not with all those new episodes of Inuyasha coming in April.

[scoobdog]

No kidding. I'm actually kind of dreading going in there since everyone seems to be uptight these last five or so pages, amd its going to get a lot worse when all the new swimmers jump in for the latest episodes and start asking the same questions about the old ones. Still, gfish, OrGoN3 and Maven do know their InuYasha.

I don't think there's enough on Jet Black to fill (nearly) seventy pages of posts anyway.

[belle_mort]

not to mention there's only 26 episodes and 1 movie of CB compared to nearly 150 episodes and 3 movies or inuyasha... it's a bit much to expect this thread to catch up with that thread...

btw, i'm new to CB and i've been following this thread quite religiously... only have nothing much to say since i haven't seen all of CB... keep up the great work. this is a pretty amazing thread.

Message Edited by belle_mort on 03-18-2004 07:40 PM

[scoobdog]

Thanks.

I was kidding about the Inu FAQ thread. Honestly, poring over 70 pages of posts is just grueling. If the experts weren't so knowledgeable, there would be no point to going in there.

[R.I.P.KuraiSeion]

Yay Jet!

[R.I.P.Big_Un1]

Here's something I was thinking about the other day, and couldn't help but notice the similarities.

Truckers have a superstition about The Black Dog. If you get greedy, or start cheating to get what you want, then The Black Dog will come for you and take it all away.

Most criminals are greedy by nature, and all have cheated the system (broken the law) one way or another. And so Jet (aka The Black Dog) comes for them to take them to jail, thus taking away all their freedom and all they were trying to cheat to get in the first place.

Any thoughts on this?

[scoobdog]

Without being familiar with the specific story behind "the Black Dog," it sounds alot like many of the folk legends that evolved with the early colonists: part old-world superstition, part colonial isolation. Many of those stories derive their morbid sensibilities from the colonists heightened sense of being "alone," separated from the home country and relative security.

In that sense, Jet Black is a creature from one of these stories. He is a product of isolation or, rather, of having to be the fittest in the survival race. But beyond that, he has also had to develop his strong sense honor in a vacuum. These stories are about how one man can survive with the limited resources provided him, and Jet has not had the kind of support that even Spike enjoyed from his days in the Syndicate.

As settlers moved West, this particular storytelling tradition also somewhat adapted to its new environment. The supernatural forest monsters of the earlier stories were replaced by a newer divine creatures derived from the Native American storytelling tradition. These creatures were not simply out to destroy, but to also enact some form of karmic balance: a shift in the antagonist's "color" from purely oppositional black to a more ambiguous grey.

As your comparison shows, Jet is more like the ambiguous "grey" villain and less like the "white" protagonist. Being in the ISSP, he was the blind arm of justice, the "black" antagonist to many people that could have been victims of the police corruption that he eventually succumbed to. However, after he left the force he started associating with Spike and Faye, people he would have formerly "come for" and the same kind of people that populate the ranks of the bounty hunters. Furthermore, Spike and Faye are Jet's only means of support: without them, he would not be able to live this kind of life.

So, he can not act with the same impunity that he could before: the Black Dog name he constantly has replaced on him is one that, in his heart, he no longer truly identifies with.