Death Note

[lupinfan83]

Got a stupid question about Death Note that you want to discuss?  I know I do!  Post it here! I thought of a 2 parter today.

1) A blind person cannot use a death note right (since they can't picture the persons face)?  If that's so, if they took the deal for shinagami eyes, would they be able to see?   

[Kharlatasznazka]

If they traded for shinigami eyes it could be possible?

Or, maybe since blind people other senses are very heightened and sensitive they could some how incorporate those senses to make it work?

I smell a fan-fiction coming.

ETA: Well, since blind people can "know" what you look like by touching your face I guess they could do that? But would it be accurate enough?

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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lupinfan83 wrote:

Got a stupid question about Death Note that you want to discuss?  I know I do!  Post it here! I thought of a 2 parter today.

1) A blind person cannot use a death note right (since they can't picture the persons face)?  If that's so, if they took the deal for shinagami eyes, would they be able to see?   

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OMG.  I doubt Ohba sensei even THOUGHT of a blind person picking up a death note!  Yeah, I doubt it would even be possible.  

If they took the deal for the eyes?  Well, the shinigami wouldn't even appear until the note was used according to the rules.  That being the case, I don't think there would be a deal to be made.  The rules say that once the notebook had been used the shinigami would appear, I don't know how that would work.  Plus the blind person wouldn't know how to use it or even that it WAS a death note unless the shinigami who dropped it anticipated a blind person happening upon it and writing the instructions in braille.

But that's not the main point of your question, is it?

I had a question - or one that was asked of me by someone who had just started watcing it - what if someone changed their name?   Which name would they write to kill them?

Ohba sensei anticipated that question - a shinigami (or someone with shinigami eyes) would see over that person's head the name needed to kill them.

I have to say, the blind person question is the best and as far as I know has not been answered.

[Kharlatasznazka]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

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lupinfan83 wrote:

Got a stupid question about Death Note that you want to discuss?  I know I do!  Post it here! I thought of a 2 parter today.

1) A blind person cannot use a death note right (since they can't picture the persons face)?  If that's so, if they took the deal for shinagami eyes, would they be able to see?   

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OMG.  I doubt Ohba sensei even THOUGHT of a blind person picking up a death note!  Yeah, I doubt it would even be possible.  

If they took the deal for the eyes?  Well, the shinigami wouldn't even appear until the note was used according to the rules.  That being the case, I don't think there would be a deal to be made.  The rules say that once the notebook had been used the shinigami would appear, I don't know how that would work.  Plus the blind person wouldn't know how to use it or even that it WAS a death note unless the shinigami who dropped it anticipated a blind person happening upon it and writing the instructions in braille.

But that's not the main point of your question, is it?

I had a question - or one that was asked of me by someone who had just started watcing it - what if someone changed their name?   Which name would they write to kill them?

Ohba sensei anticipated that question - a shinigami (or someone with shinigami eyes) would see over that person's head the name needed to kill them.

I have to say, the blind person question is the best and as far as I know has not been answered.

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I would think it would give a shinigami/death note user an advantage because they would have a choice between two names to use. Or, if there was a rule where only one and only one name could be used I guess the most recent name would be used.

[Meilag32]

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lupinfan83 wrote:

Got a stupid question about Death Note that you want to discuss?  I know I do!  Post it here! I thought of a 2 parter today.

1) A blind person cannot use a death note right (since they can't picture the persons face)?  If that's so, if they took the deal for shinagami eyes, would they be able to see?   

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That's actually a really good question.  One of the rules actually states that  "Those with the eye power of the god of death will have the eyesight of over 3.6 in the human measurement, regardless of their original eyesight."  I guess this means that if they were originally blind that they get the same eyesight as everyone else.

[lupinfan83]

Do you have to use a death note for a shinagami to appear? I don't remember that rule.

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

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lupinfan83 wrote:

Got a stupid question about Death Note that you want to discuss?  I know I do!  Post it here! I thought of a 2 parter today.

1) A blind person cannot use a death note right (since they can't picture the persons face)?  If that's so, if they took the deal for shinagami eyes, would they be able to see?   

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OMG.  I doubt Ohba sensei even THOUGHT of a blind person picking up a death note!  Yeah, I doubt it would even be possible.  

If they took the deal for the eyes?  Well, the shinigami wouldn't even appear until the note was used according to the rules.  That being the case, I don't think there would be a deal to be made.  The rules say that once the notebook had been used the shinigami would appear, I don't know how that would work.  Plus the blind person wouldn't know how to use it or even that it WAS a death note unless the shinigami who dropped it anticipated a blind person happening upon it and writing the instructions in braille.

But that's not the main point of your question, is it?

I had a question - or one that was asked of me by someone who had just started watcing it - what if someone changed their name?   Which name would they write to kill them?

Ohba sensei anticipated that question - a shinigami (or someone with shinigami eyes) would see over that person's head the name needed to kill them.

I have to say, the blind person question is the best and as far as I know has not been answered.

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One of the rules states that  "The names you see with the eye power of a god of death are the names needed to kill that person. You will be able to see their names even if they aren't listed in a family register."  I speculate that this means that the Death Note works on whatever name a person is utilizing at that time.  Example: If you were born "John Doe" but changed your identity to become "Jack Johnson" the Death Note would work for "Jack Johnson" even though our family doesn't recognize you as such.

[Meilag32]

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lupinfan83 wrote:
Do you have to use a death note for a shinagami to appear? I don't remember that rule.

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Now, this one is a quandary.  While a rule states, "If a human uses the note, a god of death usually appears in front of him/her within 39 days after he/she uses the note.", this makes it seem like a Shinigami doesn't have to.  But another rule states that, "It is prerequisite for the Death Note used in the human world that a living god of death makes sure that the humans in the human world uses it."  How else would a Shinigami make sure that a human properly uses the Death Note without revealing themselves and explaining/forcing them?

[lupinfan83]

This is kind of a weird one, but it was on my mind. A Shinagami uses their death note to take the remaining life force of a human to extend their own life. A human using a death note cannot extend their life in the same way. According to the manga, there is no heaven or hell. So I ask where does the life force of a human go when another human uses a death note?

[lupinfan83]

I was thinking, Rem must have appeared to Misa before she used hers since her death note did not have the rules written in them.

[Meilag32]

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lupinfan83 wrote:
This is kind of a weird one, but it was on my mind. A Shinagami uses their death note to take the remaining life force of a human to extend their own life. A human using a death note cannot extend their life in the same way. According to the manga, there is no heaven or hell. So I ask where does the life force of a human go when another human uses a death note?

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That's easy.  The final rules state that, "All humans, without exception, will eventually die." and "When they die they go to MU (nothingness)."  The most I can give you is that perhaps the Shinigami borrow the power of a soul or perhaps the soul itself but it's only for a limited time.  Since Shinigami have to continuously write names in their Notes to stay alive, it's probable to speculate that the names they've written don't last (i.e. their souls run out).  After that, they go to MU (nothingness).  Since a human can't utlize a soul or soul power, the soul instantly goes to MU (nothingness).

[Meilag32]

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lupinfan83 wrote:
I was thinking, Rem must have appeared to Misa before she used hers since her death note did not have the rules written in them.

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Of course.  Rem felt responsible to give Gelus' Death Note to Misa since Gelus sacrificed his life to save Misa's.  She voluntarily followed the rule that said she must appear within 39 days.  She had a personal reason to.  In practice, she probably chose a time when Misa was alone and dropped the Death Note right in front of her.  Then when Misa picked it up, Rem would have instantly been there to explain it's purpose (but not yet it's origin).

[Meilag32]

I forget.  What were the nine levels of punishment for Shinigami's who broke the rules of the Death Note?

I was just wondering because I wanted to know what punishment Rem would have gotten had she actually killed Light and his death somehow hadn't lengthened Misa's lifespan.  See, according to the rules only Ryuk was allowed to kill Light since it was Ryuk's Note that Light possessed (at least at that point in the series).  Rem could have killed Light, but would have broken a rule by doing so.

[lupinfan83]

I tried to find them, but all I found was that if it was a crime above level 3, the punishment was death. If I was Rem I would hold it over Ryuk's head that he lied to their king, which I would think would be punishable.

[Meilag32]

I thought death was only at 6 or 7 and above.  But when death is included in the punishment, I know that there is various things that happen before the Shinigami is killed.  I'm assuming different tortures. 

Your idea to blame it on Ryuk wouldn't work.  No matter how much lying Ryuk did to get that spare Death Note, it officially became Ryuk's, since Light was able to see Ryuk after touching it.  Based on that, Rem would still be held accountable, since she would obviously know that Light's Death Note was once officially Ryuk's.  . 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

I forget.  What were the nine levels of punishment for Shinigami's who broke the rules of the Death Note?

I was just wondering because I wanted to know what punishment Rem would have gotten had she actually killed Light and his death somehow hadn't lengthened Misa's lifespan.  See, according to the rules only Ryuk was allowed to kill Light since it was Ryuk's Note that Light possessed (at least at that point in the series).  Rem could have killed Light, but would have broken a rule by doing so.

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Wow, that's an awesome question.  I will have to look for that in "How To Read" to see if that was actually addressed, 'cause I don't remember if it was.

Frankly, I was wondering myself why Rem couldn't just kill Light.  I know that it's an agreement that the death note's shinigami would be the one to write the human owner's name in the book, but how hard a rule that would be if another shinigami did it, I have no clue.

I mean, really... would a shinigami looking down on the human world from the shinigami realm who was looking to kill a human to extend his or her own life even know if the human life they were planning on taking owned a death note?  Ryuk could still see Light's lifespan, another shinigami who had no idea that the human owned a death note would see it too.  Would they necessarily know?  And would they be punished for killing that person?

In this case, Rem would know that Light owned a death note.  Not sure how much of a difference that would make.

[lupinfan83]

A Shinigami can still see a human with a death notes' name, but not their reaining lifespan so another shinigami would know if a human has a death note or not. If I was Rem, I would have taken a piece of my death note and touched it to L. Give him the information about Light, let L catch him, and when he was caught Ryuk would have gotten bored and killed him.

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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lupinfan83 wrote:
A Shinigami can still see a human with a death notes' name, but not their reaining lifespan so another shinigami would know if a human has a death note or not. If I was Rem, I would have taken a piece of my death note and touched it to L. Give him the information about Light, let L catch him, and when he was caught Ryuk would have gotten bored and killed him.

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In the beginning, when Ryuk was telling Light about the differences between humans and shinigamis and the shinigami eyes, Ryuk could see Light's remaining life span over his head.  At least they showed the numbers floating underneath his name and at that time, Light owned the notebook.

Then in the end, Ryuk tells Light "I don't know when you're going to die if you go to jail."

Rem could see Misa's remaining life span cut in half again when she made the eye deal with Ryuk (and Misa had regained ownership of the notebook).  Or is it only the shinigami attached to the human who can see the life spans?

[Meilag32]

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lupinfan83 wrote:
A Shinigami can still see a human with a death notes' name, but not their reaining lifespan so another shinigami would know if a human has a death note or not. If I was Rem, I would have taken a piece of my death note and touched it to L. Give him the information about Light, let L catch him, and when he was caught Ryuk would have gotten bored and killed him.

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By doing that Rem would still have lengthened Misa's lifespan, so she would have died.

[Meilag32]

It's possible that only the Shinigami who's attached to the human can see the lifespan.  It's also possible that this was just a mistake by the creators.

Also, human lifespans aren't set in stone.  Simply by using the Death Note and following his plan, Light changed his lifespan. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

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lupinfan83 wrote:
A Shinigami can still see a human with a death notes' name, but not their reaining lifespan so another shinigami would know if a human has a death note or not. If I was Rem, I would have taken a piece of my death note and touched it to L. Give him the information about Light, let L catch him, and when he was caught Ryuk would have gotten bored and killed him.

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By doing that Rem would still have lengthened Misa's lifespan, so she would have died.

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I'm not so sure about that. It seems to be a grey area to me.  Light was planning on killing Misa and Rem didn't react as if there was a change in her life span. In fact, she only stepped in when Light told Misa he would kill her.  She said she knew her life span and if she died before that time, Rem would hold him responsible and write his name in her notebook.

The fact that she was the second Kira didn't affect her life span (beyond trading half of it away for the eyes), so it really didn't affect anything with Light in the picture.  Rem only took action when L was going to test out the notebook, knowing that he'd prove the 13 day rule false and that Light having her punishing criminals would absolutely draw suspicion onto her. She'd have been arrested, most likely found with the notebook pages with names on them, then executed.  THAT would have affected Misa's life span.  Not so much Light being in the picture, per se.

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

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Meilag32 wrote:

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lupinfan83 wrote:
A Shinigami can still see a human with a death notes' name, but not their reaining lifespan so another shinigami would know if a human has a death note or not. If I was Rem, I would have taken a piece of my death note and touched it to L. Give him the information about Light, let L catch him, and when he was caught Ryuk would have gotten bored and killed him.

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By doing that Rem would still have lengthened Misa's lifespan, so she would have died.

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I'm not so sure about that. It seems to be a grey area to me.  Light was planning on killing Misa and Rem didn't react as if there was a change in her life span. In fact, she only stepped in when Light told Misa he would kill her.  She said she knew her life span and if she died before that time, Rem would hold him responsible and write his name in her notebook.

The fact that she was the second Kira didn't affect her life span (beyond trading half of it away for the eyes), so it really didn't affect anything with Light in the picture.  Rem only took action when L was going to test out the notebook, knowing that he'd prove the 13 day rule false and that Light having her punishing criminals would absolutely draw suspicion onto her. She'd have been arrested, most likely found with the notebook pages with names on them, then executed.  THAT would have affected Misa's life span.  Not so much Light being in the picture, per se.

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Light planned on killing Misa very soon after they met.  Even if Rem went the whole "give L info" route, that would still save Misa from Light, thereby lengthening her lifespan. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to be a grey area to me.  Light was planning on killing Misa and Rem didn't react as if there was a change in her life span. In fact, she only stepped in when Light told Misa he would kill her.  She said she knew her life span and if she died before that time, Rem would hold him responsible and write his name in her notebook.

The fact that she was the second Kira didn't affect her life span (beyond trading half of it away for the eyes), so it really didn't affect anything with Light in the picture.  Rem only took action when L was going to test out the notebook, knowing that he'd prove the 13 day rule false and that Light having her punishing criminals would absolutely draw suspicion onto her. She'd have been arrested, most likely found with the notebook pages with names on them, then executed.  THAT would have affected Misa's life span.  Not so much Light being in the picture, per se.

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Light planned on killing Misa very soon after they met.  Even if Rem went the whole "give L info" route, that would still save Misa from Light, thereby lengthening her lifespan. 

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Rem saved Misa from Light the moment she told him she'd kill him if he killed Misa.  She said "I know her lifespan, if she dies before the end of her life span, I will blame you and kill you."

I don't think it was so much lenghening her lifespan, it was just keeping her from dying before her time was up.

But... I don't remember seeing that addressed in volume 13, How to Read, so that could be something that's open to interpretation.  Mr Ohba may not have even considered this particular question, so there is very likely no definitive answer.

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

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Meilag32 wrote:

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to be a grey area to me.  Light was planning on killing Misa and Rem didn't react as if there was a change in her life span. In fact, she only stepped in when Light told Misa he would kill her.  She said she knew her life span and if she died before that time, Rem would hold him responsible and write his name in her notebook.

The fact that she was the second Kira didn't affect her life span (beyond trading half of it away for the eyes), so it really didn't affect anything with Light in the picture.  Rem only took action when L was going to test out the notebook, knowing that he'd prove the 13 day rule false and that Light having her punishing criminals would absolutely draw suspicion onto her. She'd have been arrested, most likely found with the notebook pages with names on them, then executed.  THAT would have affected Misa's life span.  Not so much Light being in the picture, per se.

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Light planned on killing Misa very soon after they met.  Even if Rem went the whole "give L info" route, that would still save Misa from Light, thereby lengthening her lifespan. 

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Rem saved Misa from Light the moment she told him she'd kill him if he killed Misa.  She said "I know her lifespan, if she dies before the end of her life span, I will blame you and kill you."

I don't think it was so much lenghening her lifespan, it was just keeping her from dying before her time was up.

But... I don't remember seeing that addressed in volume 13, How to Read, so that could be something that's open to interpretation.  Mr Ohba may not have even considered this particular question, so there is very likely no definitive answer.

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Apparently Rem didn't save Misa from Light since Rem would have died.  I think this means that Light would never have killed Misa.  Or at least succeed in doing so. 

[lupinfan83]

If he was going to kill her, he could have done it at any time after L was killed. Misa was an important accet of his (at least the eyes were). Now I can't remember what the rules said with this question, so I'll ask you guys. When Rem sacrificed herself, her remaining lifespan went to Misa and Light. With that, could they live longer than they originally would have?