Death Note

[XenopusTex]

Hmmm...

Lucifer, the name actually started out meaning something entirely different.  In translation it's "Light Bringer," one of Venus' names.  In modern science, it's the root word for luciferase, the enzyme that makes fireflies light up.

Then came christianity.  Now it's evil.

Are there godlike entities in the vastness of space?  Probably.  Does the bible describe a god?  Naw.  It's merely a collection of after-the-fact justifications, chest thumping, and probably victory agrandizement (old testament).  Doesn't saying you beat 10,000's with 300 people sound better than we beat up the local garrison?  Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent bits of wisdom to be gained from the old testament, and some of the military tactics described therein have been used with great success in those areas.

New testament is a collection of stories about a guy who thought he was a god, and discovered the hard way that no... he dies just like everybody else; along with the stories of those who believed he was a god.  Ironically, the first generation of christians seem to have believed that the return would happen in their lifetimes.  Those were tough times, people were desparate to find hope/relief.

Always amused at the "letting him think he's winning," thing.  If you have an enemy you can take care of... you take care of them... you don't let them sit around and get stronger   You don't let them destroy what you've built.  

[Meilag32]

Lucifer's name has many meanings.  You listed one.  Just know there are many others.  Some have slight differences, others more major. 

As for God "letting him win"; Let's say both God and Satan exist in exactly the way Christianity says they do.  I doubt God considers Satan an enemy.  More misguided than anything else, probably.  And Lucifer was once a loyal servant of God.  No, God would put Satan's actions to his own use because Satan poses no threat to God. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

We don't know how loyal Lucifer ever was.  He objected and rebelled when humans were going to be created and the angels - superior beings - were to be served by the angels.  Lucifer rebelled and took one third of the angels with him to overthrow God, take His place and sit on His throne. That's when Michael stepped up with "Who is like unto God?" and with HIS angels threw Lucifer and his minions out of Heaven.  That's what tradition says at any rate.  Since none of us was actually there to see it...  I'm not sure how solidly I believe that - whether it's literal truth or an explanation of what happened.  Dunno.

The devil and those fallen angels are still out there, trying to destroy what God created.  God gets blamed for a lot of what they do.  Exactly HOW they got created or why they are the way they are, nobody knows for sure.  All we have is what tradition says.  I personally don't think it's that important how it happened, but Lucifer was infected with pride and it was his downfall.  Kind of like what happened with Light.  He got proud and arrogant and wanted to be god.  He got the end that usually awaits people who try that.  Utter failure.

[XenopusTex]

There's an old term for that: Hubris.

If god is all powerful and all seeing, should he not have located satan and kicked his ass into the middle of last week?

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

He did.  Hell is not a nice place.  He still has influence.  Why that is is known only to God.  I expect we'll find out eventually, no doubt after we die.  But if you don't believe in life after death, you'll still find out. After you die.  

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

Funny thing it was when that crudified guy was walking around again three days later.  Of course you weren't there to see it so of course you're not going to believe it.  Even if you were there and saw it I doubt you'd believe it either.  

But that's entirely up to you. 

[XenopusTex]

I believe that someone (or more than one person) with a vested interest in the creation of the material wrote that ~30-100+ years *AFTER* the supposed event.

The question regarding if I were there to see it presupposes it happened.  It's not that it comes from another source that makes me doubt its veracity; lots of information comes from things you can't personally observe.  Just is, some sources are more reliable than others.  The more interest (benefit) the source has in a particular outcome, the less reliable I consider it.  There's also the old line from Winston Churchill: History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it.

At the time, who kept the disciples and their progeny alive?  Answer, the faithful.  If you can't convince them their savior isn't dead, well... there's no reason to follow you. 

Guess the Romans didn't make a record... executed guy ... failed ... must take motivational training in executions.  If the early christians were considered that problematic for the Romans and jews in the area, don't you think they would have sent out some military to disband the gatherings where the risen **noel** appeared?  And to "make sure" shall we say...

Yes, parts FL are still the South, of course it depends on the area.  Parts of FL are Cuba North.  Of course I still hear Spanish where I moved to... so...  At least where I am they haven't started giving people xmas gifts with assault rifles like they did in Ft. Myers on xmas eve, at least not yet.

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

I didn't come here to debate religion.  I'm not particularly interested in talking about it and I doubt too many here are that interested in reading it. I'm religious, I believe in life after death.  You're not and you don't. I get it.

I said it before and I'll say it again, and it's the last thing I have to say on the subject.  We'll find out when we die.  When you die, a long time from now, one of two things is going to happen.  You'll either be right, and there WILL be nothing, or you'll be wrong and possibly in for an unpleasant surprise.  Period.

[Meilag32]

Oh, but making people doubt their belief system is FUN! 

And like I already said, we don't get to find out if you're wrong and he's right.  You don't realize you don't exist just like you didn't realize it before you were born.  We only find out the answer if you're right.  Frankly, I tend to believe that there may be something God-like out there, but that it's nothing like any religion on Earth says it is.  Hell, it may not even know that Earth exists.  An afterlife is harder to believe in.  So maybe there is a God, just not one you would recognize, and no afterlife. 

Oh, and Hell isn't Hell for Satan.  Apparently only for us.  If Satan's out there, God's moving his hands just like he is yours. 

[Stmurda23]

i see my self running away from it and survivng as long as possible

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Stmurda23 wrote:

i see my self running away from it and survivng as long as possible

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Probably the most sensible reaction.

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

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Stmurda23 wrote:

i see my self running away from it and survivng as long as possible

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Probably the most sensible reaction.

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It's what I'm going for.  I'll be dragged kicking and screaming into the abyss. 

[XenopusTex]

I concur that there is something out there in the vastness of space that is god-like. 

Thing is, given all the translations and errors in the bible... assuming that the god described therein is real ... how do we know that our actions in regard to him/her/it are right?

[Meilag32]

Well, isn't God supposed to be controlling everything?  You know, fate or destiny or whatever you want to call it.  If that's the case, we don't have to worry.

And even if that's not the case, I don't worry anyway.  I know I'm not doing what's right in God's eyes.  I do what I do to benefit me, not God.  And certainly not the people I step on to get ahead. 

[InuFan05]

I'm gonna have to come back to catch up on what I missed.

[Meilag32]

You didn't miss much.  It kind of went off onto a whole religious tangent about the existence of supernatural deities. 

[MegaNaraku]

Ya know, I should really post in here more often. I didn't even notice this thread until i clicked on this folder. It seems very interesting.

[InuFan05]

I know! Same... I've been so busy and will probably return irregularly at best... It seems that I've missed a lot... And I never got the chance to go through this again, despite the fact that @Meilag said that I didn't really miss much... Unfortunately, I'm going to take another rain check on that...

[Meilag32]

Well, you didn't.  The only thing you missed was an argument regarding religion.

[MegaNaraku]

Noted