Death Note

[Meilag32]

...how do you see yourself greeting Death?  I don't mean the specific circumstances (whether a calm or violent death) but your attitude towards it.  When you imagine your death, however it happens, what do you imagine your last emotion would be?  Would you actually greet Death with a smile on your face?  I just...want to hear opinions on it.  What you go through when you die is very personal and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. It's just that...other perspectives may help me sort out some things. 

[lupinfan83]

Hopefully, when I die I go with a feeling of accomplishment. I'm sure there would also be a mix fear of the unknown, but also of excitement. If Death is there waiting to take me to the next world, I'd take one more look at my family and say "Let's go".

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

...how do you see yourself greeting Death?  I don't mean the specific circumstances (whether a calm or violent death) but your attitude towards it.  When you imagine your death, however it happens, what do you imagine your last emotion would be?  Would you actually greet Death with a smile on your face?  I just...want to hear opinions on it.  What you go through when you die is very personal and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. It's just that...other perspectives may help me sort out some things. 

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That's a very interesting question.  I'm a Christian and I've been very interested in accounts from people who have had 'near death' experiences.  Much of what they relate I believe.  Being a spiritual person, I do believe in life after death - that when we leave this life we're born into another.  This life on Earth is merely our spiritual development for the life we are going to be born into when we leave this one, much like our development in the womb is development for our life here (you know, eyes, lungs, ears, etc).

I'm pretty attached to a number of things in this life, so part of me thinks I'll have regret for leaving them, 'cause, you know, you can't take it with you.  Right?  But part of me can't wait to see what's over there. And it's eternal, whatever you have on the Other Side is there forever.  

But, I have to say, not having ever had a near death experience, it's almost impossible for me to say, right now, how i will feel.  I don't fear death at all.  I do want to put it off for as long as possible, but once it's inevitable, I think I would embrace it. With hope.

Not sure this answers your question at all.

[jackiemarie90]

Huh I want to be grateful and smile, but I can't say for sure, one thing I might be sure though is acceptance, idk, just hope I go out a good way ha ha

[robertje]

I wanna go out fighting a bear or lion or something, possibly something heroic like i just saved my family from armed robbers i took them out but i was mortally wounded doing so hahaha

[Meilag32]

How do...how do you and Lupin and Jackie and I'm assuming others, just...just accept it?  It's...It's just...I don't have words to convey what I think.  Foolish comes to mind, but...it's not enough, or not fully right.  It's just...but it's...how can...?????????????

I don't understand.  I truly don't understand it.  I try and see it from your view or analyze with you in mind, but it's just always blank.  I don't even understand a hint of your side of it.  This has always been one of the most confounding conundrums I've come across and I have yet to get to Step 1 to finish it. 

[Meilag32]

Long time no see, Jackie.  I see you've been busy. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

How do...how do you and Lupin and Jackie and I'm assuming others, just...just accept it?  It's...It's just...I don't have words to convey what I think.  Foolish comes to mind, but...it's not enough, or not fully right.  It's just...but it's...how can...?????????????

I don't understand.  I truly don't understand it.  I try and see it from your view or analyze with you in mind, but it's just always blank.  I don't even understand a hint of your side of it.  This has always been one of the most confounding conundrums I've come across and I have yet to get to Step 1 to finish it. 

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I can't speak for Lupin or Jackie, but I want to say I don't want to die.  I want to live as long as I can, and I'm always sad when someone leaves this life.  Maybe not so much for THEM, but for the people they leave behind.  I'm sometimes a worrier, and I think of my family and friends and how my dying is going to affect them.  I think about the things I love to do now that I won't be able to do any more and hope I would be able to let them go to get on to the real business of eternal life. 

But we have existance after we're done here.  I mean, the baby in the womb knows nothing about what's going on outside other than what it can hear or maybe feel if people touch mama's belly to feel him kicking, all the while developing eyes and ears and brain that it can't use while it's in the womb, but will be needed once it's born.  The way I see it, we're embryonic spiritual lives, here to develop our capacity to function in the next life. Sort of, that's very simplistic, but it kind of fits.  Our soul or spirit is eternal, unlike this crude matter we inhabit.

We're not bodies that have a soul, we're souls that for a period of time have a body.  

 MY perspective at least.

I have hope that there will be plenty of interest and an eternity of learning and understanding 'over there.'  I'm just wired that way.

If one is NOT wired that way, I understand why it would be difficult if not impossible for them to grasp those concepts.  I don't know, could it be wiring?  Or maybe lack of experience?  I'm not sure learning would be of that much use - one can read all the books ever written about a subject and maybe know things intellectually, but some things just need to be experienced.  Belief is a big factor too and whether someone is willing or able to consider possibilities.

My rambling probably didn't shed any light on the subject. Sorry about that.  

[MafiaFlood]

I honestly have no freaking clue how I'll feel at the time of my death. Depends on the circumstances, really.

[BUU8800]

Very morbid question, but how do I see my emotions at the time of my death? I want to feel at peace with it as I know it must come, but I'll probably still have at least some level of sadness and fear, but moreso sadness, when the time comes.

[Meilag32]

I'm not saying you people want to die.  I'm just saying that each of you seems to be somewhat OK with it if it happens. 

In your case, how do you know that something comes later?  Have you seen it?  Any credible evidence?  I've never understood how your kind embraces 2000 year old fairy tales as a concrete truth yet dismisses science as quickly as possible.  What would happen if someone discovered that there is no afterlife?  Would that change the way you think if it?

I have plenty of experience with death and dying.  Far more than a normal person my age should have.  You want to know the exact second a person dies?  Look in their eyes as they die.  You'll always see it.  They're looking up at you, then they just look through you, staring but not seeing.  It's like the black in their eyes just swallowed them up. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

I'm not saying you people want to die.  I'm just saying that each of you seems to be somewhat OK with it if it happens. 

In your case, how do you know that something comes later?  Have you seen it?  Any credible evidence?  I've never understood how your kind embraces 2000 year old fairy tales as a concrete truth yet dismisses science as quickly as possible.  What would happen if someone discovered that there is no afterlife?  Would that change the way you think if it?

I have plenty of experience with death and dying.  Far more than a normal person my age should have.  You want to know the exact second a person dies?  Look in their eyes as they die.  You'll always see it.  They're looking up at you, then they just look through you, staring but not seeing.  It's like the black in their eyes just swallowed them up. 

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Oh I know you're not.  I said that because I didn't want to give the impression that I did, or that I was 'ok' with it if it was to come soon. That's all.

How do YOU know something DOESN'T come after?  Just because you haven't seen it yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist.   

If someone discovered there is no afterlife?  That would be interesting, especially how they would plan on proving it.  I'm reminded of a conversation in 'Contact' - that book by Carl Sagan that was made into a movie.  Arroway was talking to Palmer Joss, the former 'man of the cloth' and she said she didn't believe in those fairy tales either.  Joss asks her, "Do you love your father?"  She says "Of course!"  He said, "Prove it."  Actions can be written off by the unbeliever as being attributed to other motives.  Description of the emotion can be written off by that same unbeliever as hormones.  It's a question of faith and something that a believer would accept as a sign of the reality of what they believe in would be written off as something else by those who don't (want to) believe.

Besides the fact that I have on occasion been touched by the supernatural, I have read too many accounts of those who have 'died' as it were, who could describe exactly what they saw in the room from above the heads of those who were working on them and were able to relate conversations had by family members at the time who weren't even there.  Most of them saw family members who had been deceased for years and maybe never met.  Were able to describe them to have them confirmed by an older living relative.  Even blind people have done this.  Their accounts of what followed in these experiences have been fairly consistent. Maybe this doesn't count as 'proof.'  I am pretty satisfied with it, at least it's closer to 'proof' than the assertion that there's nothing there.

And no, I'm not going to post a link storm into this posting, there is a ton of links on google that can be found easily with a quick search.

Anyway, you seem amazed that some of us sound like we're ok with it.  Well, everybody dies.  Every human without exception will die.  What, if anything, comes after nobody really knows for sure and can prove to those who don't or won't believe.  All I can say with certainty that even YOU would agree with is that we'll all find out when we get there.

[Meilag32]

How do I know that a Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?  Simply because I haven't seen it? 

It doesn't matter how the person would prove it.  It's hypothetical.  If it was proven that an Afterlife didn't exist, would you change your thinking on death?

What, have you conversed with ghosts or something?  Or has God himself graced you with his presence?  I've heard those stories by people.  Science says it's just the brain working in overdrive and synapses are firing and connections are being energized that normally aren't.  And the light people see is often the light of the operating room since our brains still detect light even if we aren't conscious.

Yes, I can't comprehend how people can be okay with Death.  Those clearly aren't my feelings on the matter.  Death is the worst possible thing that can happen to you.    There is nothing worse than death.  To be okay with it is to accept defeat.  And the idea that all humans will die isn't necessarily true anymore.  Within 30 years, we'll be able to reverse aging by 30-45 years.  Stopping aging itself isn't an impossibility.  And other avenues like uploading oneself into a computer isn't fiction either.  There are real scientists and institutes spending millions and millions making these things into reality.  All that's needed is time.  And then I'd be able to escape that inevitability that has wrought destruction on everyone else.  What would your God say to that?

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

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Meilag32 wrote:

How do I know that a Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?  Simply because I haven't seen it? 

It doesn't matter how the person would prove it.  It's hypothetical.  If it was proven that an Afterlife didn't exist, would you change your thinking on death?

What, have you conversed with ghosts or something?  Or has God himself graced you with his presence?  I've heard those stories by people.  Science says it's just the brain working in overdrive and synapses are firing and connections are being energized that normally aren't.  And the light people see is often the light of the operating room since our brains still detect light even if we aren't conscious.

Yes, I can't comprehend how people can be okay with Death.  Those clearly aren't my feelings on the matter.  Death is the worst possible thing that can happen to you.    There is nothing worse than death.  To be okay with it is to accept defeat.  And the idea that all humans will die isn't necessarily true anymore.  Within 30 years, we'll be able to reverse aging by 30-45 years.  Stopping aging itself isn't an impossibility.  And other avenues like uploading oneself into a computer isn't fiction either.  There are real scientists and institutes spending millions and millions making these things into reality.  All that's needed is time.  And then I'd be able to escape that inevitability that has wrought destruction on everyone else.  What would your God say to that?

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Flying spaghetti monster?  Pfft.  Who the hell knows?  It doesn't affect me at all, so I don't care.

And you proved my point - people can write off people's experiences as whatever they want if the possibility of what they experienced terrifies them or is incomprehensible to them.  That's one way to stay comfy in one's belief system, isn't it?

Looks like you have your own attitudes towards death, which I think is futile, but so what, right?  If you live long enough for those scientific advances and if you can afford it, go for it.  See how long they can make you last.  What would God say to that?  He'd probably find it amusing, I don't know.  

[Meilag32]

The Spaghetti Monster argument is somewhat known way to argue the idea of "prove there isn't a God".  It simply means that by that logic every stupid thing imaginable must also be true.  So if I can't prove that God doesn't exist and you can't prove that a Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, then both must be true. 

And you proved my point.  People too scared to admit that not existing is all that happens when you die, create stories and fables to appease themselves and their loved ones.  Even if those stories go against all rational thinking.  So who's trying to stay comfy in one's belief system?  It's you, not me.  Frankly, I'd love to find out that God exists.  That would mean...a chance for me to do something important.  Something I can't do now.

So any attitude towards death that doesn't match your own is futile?  Such arrogance, but then all religious types are. 

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

Sounds like there is plenty of arrogance to go around.

Like I said, we'll all find out for sure when we die.  Maybe you'll live long enough for science to extend your life, and maybe you'll be able to afford it.  I wouldn't bet any money on it, but you never know, right?

[Meilag32]

So you don't disagree?  Anyways, it's expected from my kind.  You may have heard of the story of the Scorpion and the Frog?  Or the Farmer and the Viper from Aesop's Fables?  But your kind...your kind is supposed to be the kind, altruistic type.  Yet the legacy of organized religion is one of hatred, racism, and murder. 

Or not.  If we stop existing, we don't get to find out.  We just die and then that's it.  Nothing after that.  It's really almost like a sucker punch.

I think I'll do alright by science.  To say this is unfamiliar territory would be a lie.    And it's not like I'd just apply or something.  Once they perfected it, I'd simply steal it or use it or whatever, kill them so no one else can be immortal, and etc., etc.

Anyways, religious arguments aside, your input was appreciated.  Perhaps one day I'll figure out this puzzle I've been dealing with.

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

Oh I disagree, yes I do, but that's ok.  Things would be so boring if everyone thought alike.

You asked a question, a bunch of us answered.  You said you were having trouble understanding, so I tried to explain a little better.  It's something that's hard to explain to someone who thinks so completely different.  I hope one of these days you'll at least understand even if you still don't agree.

I hope some day you do get it figured out.  At least it's something to ponder when you don't have anything else to do, no?

[RPD]

i hope i have emptied my bladder and bowels beforehand just for spite...

[jackiemarie90]

Well I tend to lurk in IB cause it's seems like a comfortable place for me. Death Note still is special to me in a way, I just lost the feeling of constant long discussions and thought, I feel repetitive in a way cause you can only argue ethics so far.

Hows you guys been?

[SpikesMrsSpooky]

Ok, here is one link to show to skeptics.

This is the account of a neuroscientist of his experience: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/science/near-death-experiences-30
-years-of-research-part-5-62649.htm....

You don't have to read this too closely to see that religion is not even involved.

I provide this only as food for thought.

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

Oh I disagree, yes I do, but that's ok.  Things would be so boring if everyone thought alike.

You asked a question, a bunch of us answered.  You said you were having trouble understanding, so I tried to explain a little better.  It's something that's hard to explain to someone who thinks so completely different.  I hope one of these days you'll at least understand even if you still don't agree.

I hope some day you do get it figured out.  At least it's something to ponder when you don't have anything else to do, no?

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Well, you explained your reasons for thinking like that.  Heavily religious so I'm not sure if it applied to my specific quandary.

I understand that people think better of death than I do.  But I doubt I'll understand why.  I merely asked this of people because it was recently the anniversary of the day that I killed the only person I didn't want to die.  Strange, isn't it?  Me talking about caring for a person.  And the parting words that he left me are that puzzle I find troubling.  Even as he lay there dying, he still wanted to help me.  I doubt I'll figure it out until I'm about to die myself.  Perhaps that's the final perspective I need. 

[Meilag32]

You definitely lapped all of us old vets in posts, that's for sure.  I remember when you had less than I did.  

Oh, everyone here's as close-minded as usual.  I'm still trying to get them to open their eyes.  Maybe one day...

[Meilag32]

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SpikesMrsSpooky wrote:

Ok, here is one link to show to skeptics.

This is the account of a neuroscientist of his experience: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/science/near-death-experiences-30
-years-of-research-part-5-62649.htm....

You don't have to read this too closely to see that religion is not even involved.

I provide this only as food for thought.

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As a neurosurgeon, he should know that much of the brain is still a mystery to scientists.  How can he be sure that what happened didn't deal with one of the many, many areas we don't know much of anything about? 

Frankly, I'd believe that his soul was doing something supernatural rather than his brain doing it.  If a soul actually exists, then it's energy.  Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.  It can be transferred, though. 

[jackiemarie90]

Thats cause IB is a comfortable place for me to post and as always, I have alot of things to say.

Riiiiiggghhhtt calling everyone closed minded on the other hand, is a very open minded thing to say. I guess I'm just a bearable person to talk to then?