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SwimArbiter
SwimMod_Luuv
Posts: 24,980
Registered: 08-23-2003
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the Race for Racism

Freaknik is not racist.

 

If I may say, y'all are just afraid of black folks, poor folks, and especially

black poor folks.  You don't like looking at them so you cry 'racial stereotypes'

and think that somehow absolves you from the sin of being racist or classist

or whatever other kind of ist you're slingin.

If every time anybody black or poor is represented in a story, you can holler

"stereotype" then you don't have to really look at them at all.

And God forbid somebody from a ghetto makes it out but doesn't drop the

ghetto.  Because we can't have rich people running around acting like they

don't come from old money.  That's another cue for you to jump up and

holler "racial stereotyping!"; if you ever see some rich black dude that's not

enunciating his words ever so carefully and talking about things that rich

people are supposed to talk about.

Because - there's a list.

I've never seen it.  But it's all like - yachts and tucks and whatnot.
 



I think ascots are on there.

Still Gold
SupraPrincess
Posts: 7
Registered: 03-03-2010
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

I was pretty shocked when the racism card was played. I highly doubt such respected rappers would be apart of Freaknik if they thought it was raciest. My friends from ATL loved the movie because its just an exaggerated view of how Freaknik was. Take the humor at face value. Racism is still alive, but bigots are pretty blatant about it. I think we hit a wall as far as equality goes, I don't think racism will ever die as long as the paranoia of it continues...
Still Gold
Posts: 12
Registered: 01-25-2009
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

I am a long time member, but rare poster.  Finally logged in to respond to this.  I watched freaknik, and IMO it goes completely against shows like the boondocks message wise.  Ya it has its funny moments, but I would be willing to bet that  a lot of the people who are "hating" are fans of the boondocks like me.  I am also willing to bet that the majority of people who like freaknick dislike or have never watched the boondocks.  I don't mind the language at all btw.

 

The boondocks constantly rails against these stereotypes of gangster rappers who focus on an image of just having fun, doing nothing but get high all day, and a machiavellian philosophy of steal, sell drugs, break the law to survive.  Freaknik pretty much was an extension of the Irresponsible, stupid, and ignorant behaviors that are constantly displayed in mtv and bet videos and promoted to young black and white males. Freaknik romanticises and encourages these behavoirs, whereas the boondocks makes the same kind of jokes, but disapproves of the behavior and points it out as a flaw and something that should be changed.

 

One scene that stuck out to me (of many) was The final scene where freaknik decides to get on the mothership when he sees the girl he got pregnant and had a baby.  This is right after they finished singing a song about love and whatever, and freaknik demonstrates ultimate hipocrisy by just leaving his kid.  IMO I don't think the show gets what its doing.  I dont care that they put this scene in there (the boondocks has done similar), but the context surrounding it and the message is the complete oppositte of the boondocks.  The show doesn't get what its doing. (or maybe i just am missing it) 

 

flame on, lets get some discussion going.

T.O.M. v3
Pinkfrog
Posts: 25,232
Registered: 09-03-2003
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SupraPrincess - Message ID#: 53589731


SupraPrincess wrote:
I was pretty shocked when the racism card was played. I highly doubt such respected rappers would be apart of Freaknik if they thought it was raciest. My friends from ATL loved the movie because its just an exaggerated view of how Freaknik was. Take the humor at face value. Racism is still alive, but bigots are pretty blatant about it. I think we hit a wall as far as equality goes, I don't think racism will ever die as long as the paranoia of it continues...

I see you have never been to freaknik...

because if you can immagine a racial sterotype... you will see it enforced at any freaknik party lol

Moltar Loyalist
EpikTheDarkness
Posts: 249
Registered: 01-16-2010
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

it's not racist, it was said that the majority of the cast was black so I think someone would have cried foul. 
SwimArbiter
SwimMod_Luuv
Posts: 24,980
Registered: 08-23-2003
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to JoeCrow - Message ID#: 53590599

I think though, even when you describe the scene you describe, which is

obviously - I mean obvioiusly (super obviously) a poke at the character, the

lifestyle etc.  

 

And it's an obvious joke moment, and it's obvious the intent.

 

And yet - for you, the joke's there, but somehow, even though they wrote it

in, it's an obvious joke, and it's an obvious joke at the expense of the Freaknik

character and it's an obvious joke at the expense of glamorizing the lifestyle,

you still want to whitwash over all that by suggesting that they somehow had

no idea they were making the joke.  Or had no clue that they were in any way

acknowledging there, or anywhere, some of the sillier/more absurd elements

of said lifestyle.

 

Freaknik played for me like - first of all, I identified with it, which helps.  I think

 a lot of people simply don't and - I guess that's what they see, which is fine.

 

BUT - people tend to attempt to turn that into reality for everyone.  Which is

no more readily apparent than the "racist" type comments.  I mean, how better

to try to get people to agree with you?  If you call it "racist" it's harder for 

people to take up a position against you because - if they do, then they're defending

racism right?

 

But beyond the somewhat insidious nature of using race in that context against

something like Freaknik, I think there's a blander force at work in that - people

make up their mind in 2 seconds.  And then spend the rest of their time looking

for things to support the position.

 

I was expecting this to be crap.  But I have this thing where, if a friend recommends

something, or really likes something, I'll try to watch it with fresh eyes.  Or as fresh

a perspective as I can.  And Adult Swim is kind of the same vibe to me.

 

When AS puts something on the air, I feel like it's in my best interest to try 

to watch it from as fresh a perspective as I can summon.

 

And I think in the case of That Crook'd Sipp, didn't help.  Not a bit.

 

But with this, I think I saw the whole of it.  I saw the sort of perspectives at 

play, including the perspective it was written from.  But also I saw a wonderful

kind of freedom in the structure that played on the absurdity and occasional

obsessiveness of its own position.  While not abandoning its position.

 

It's something I admire greatly.  Standing ones ground, while still being able to

recognize absurdities in every part of the situation, not only in the forces you

oppose, but also in yourself.

 

And I think those elements are not just obvious, but super obvious.

 

And yet, I think because you have an investment in not liking it, or an investment

in reinforcing a structured opinion that possibly sprang from a very tiny seed,

it just doesn't serve the intent, or the perspective you wish to have about the

show, or wish to propagate in a discussion etc.

 

I think that's (not you in this case, but in general to the OP) what people are

doing when they say it's racist.  I think it's a subconscious and sometimes conscioius

attempt to create, with either passive self deception, or active deception, a no-win

scenario for people who would take an opposing position.

 

It's the twisted logic that suggests that, if you watch a show about black people,

and they talk a certain way, etc, you are racist for enjoying it.

 

Which probably also means, if I have friends that talk in the same manner as

the characters in Freaknik, I'm a racist for hanging out with them, laughing at 

their jokes, enjoying their company, etc.

 

Obviously, niether of those things makes me a racist.

 

I think it's utterly ridiculous for people to suggest that.  And by extension, I think

it's utterly ridiculous for people to suggest that Freaknik is somehow racist 

because the characters talk like real people talk and act like real people act.

 

And even more ironically, the entire dynamic in and of itself is one of the main

points of the show.  The whole concept of old money attempting to crush

a scene by pointing at it and hollering stuff that is designed to spin public opinion

in their direction and shut it down.

 

In other words, in the show, old money doesn't like the scene.  So they do/say

what they have to about it get people to see it their way and/or to shut it down.

 

People don't like a cartoon, so they do/say what they have to about it to get

people to see it their way and/or shut it down.

 

It's actually on some level quite funny, and in a sense temporally anomalous as

well, because - in a sense Freaknik is already making fun of the absurdity in

the very opinions/attitudes people are criticizing it with.  It's almost as if, Freaknik

knows itself so well that it actually can look into its own future and comment

on these negative reactions as part of the fabric of what it is.

 

Then the people come along, have the reaction, in an odd way become then part

of the fabric of the show itself, and in a sense always were.

 

So - after being incorporated into the fabric of the show in the future and written

into the past, they see Freaknik in the present, don't recognize themselves in it

(even as obviously as they are woven into it) and level their criticisms.

 

Ultimately, oddly criticizing themselves, or in essence, criticizing what has grown

from the seed of their criticisms, which is in turn the seed gathered and returned

to the past etc.

 

And I don't think that particular dimensional effect is even necessarily intended

by the creators, it's basically just gravy.

 

 

SwimArbiter
SwimMod_Luuv
Posts: 24,980
Registered: 08-23-2003
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to Pinkfrog - Message ID#: 53590903

And that's actually a fantastic statement right there.  I think it illustrates in

a really casual way kind of part of what I'm talking about.

 

 I think - largely what racism does is isolate somebody because of race.  Not

just singles them out, but attempts to isolate them, drive them into themselves,

etc.

 

It's an attack on identity and invidualism.

 

And I think "sterotype" is a great illustration, and the use of that word "stereotype"

 

A "stereotype" is, by definition basically, something that isn't real.  Basically

as applied to race, as it has come to be understood in the general sense

in our culture, it's the creation of something that isn't real to enforce negative

feelings about a race.  Or isolate that race.

 

In that sense, your observation is perfect.

 

If you go to a Freaknik show, you see a lot of real people.

 

Not fake stereotypes designed to promote a racist agenda, or an agenda of

isolation etc, but real live people living their real live lives.

 

To suggest that those people are stereotypes, is not only ludicrous, but is

in itself an attempt to isolate those people.

 

So - in a sense, what is being done is, people are accusing real people of

being stereotypes in an attempt to isolate them.

 

Which is exactly what racism is.

 

 

Sailor Scout
tini_tunz
Posts: 7,279
Registered: 07-21-2006
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

Everybody knows rich people are supposed to wear tophats and monocles.

TOPHATS AND MONOCLES!!

Word Of The Day: Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia

Be right here


The PSN: LUNI_TUNZ. Also, Steam



http://www.adultswim.com/games/mlb/media/3.png



nnn
Still Gold
Posts: 3
Registered: 03-08-2010
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53601654

**pOp** dude.  i hope you like coco puffs because you are coo coo!!!  like to listen to yourself talk much? 

"an ignorant opinion is one that should not be shared"  LB 2010

Sailor Scout
The_Siberian_Captain
Posts: 7,856
Registered: 04-21-2005
0

Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

Racism? Could anybody really think that? It's an over-the-top lampoon is what it is!
Still Gold
Truckules
Posts: 12
Registered: 11-03-2009
0

Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53601654

By definition, racism is "1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

 

I didn't see any of that in Freaknik at all. There was no hatred, no intolerance, and no superiority in the cartoon. Especially when it's a cartoon about the black community that is produced by a prominent black artist and starring a large black cast. It would be like saying Do the Right Thing is a racist movie.

 

But what's happening here is that racism is being confused with racial stereotypes. Racial stereotypes can be used to create racism, the two are not mutually exclusive, but not always. Racial stereotype is defined as "An ethnic stereotype  is a generalized representation of an ethnic group, composed of what are thought to be typical characteristics of members of the group."

 

Racism is and always will be a negative term. Racial stereotypes, however, is more of a neutral term. Stereotyping is a way of generalizing things with similar traits that are observed, and it can be done with class status, religions, and social groups. SwimMod_Luuv used a stereotype when describing wealthy people act like they come from old money. 

 

There are positive racial stereotypes. For example "black people are naturally good dancers" is not implying that black people are inferior to any race, but is in fact a positive trait (though it can have an adverse effect.)

 

A negative racial stereotype doesn't have to be racist either. An example would be "Asians are short," is not implying that Asians are inferior to anybody else because they are shorter than those of western societies, it is just an general observation that occurs to outside groups.

 

Freaknik could reinforce some racial stereotypes. Somebody could say "black people smoke weed a lot" based off observing the characters in the Sweet Tea Mob, particularly Doela Man's role. This isn't racist, as it is not implicating that this makes blacks inferior to others. "Hippies smoke alot of weed"  is the same thing with just the ethnic grouping replaced with a social grouping.

 

That being said, personally I think Freaknik mostly reinforced several hip-hop stereotypes like materialism and objectification of women. 

 

 

  

SwimArbiter
SwimMod_Luuv
Posts: 24,980
Registered: 08-23-2003
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to luger7 - Message ID#: 53609424

well i am pretty awesome.

 

i should have mentioned that in my post i guess.

Still Gold
Posts: 12
Registered: 01-25-2009
0

Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53601514

Great post.  I think what irks me most about freaknik is that it romanticizes a lifestyle I don't approve of.  I have friends who act the same way as some of these characters, and maybe its just more personal for me, but I have slowly distanced myself from these friends over the years.  I don't think its racist and you make a great point that there are real people who act this way.  I don't approve of the mentality presented in the show's characters, and I just felt that the show romanticized this mentality rather than criticized it.  Which a show like the boondocs would.

 

In regards to the scene I was talking about when freaknik runs from the woman he got pregnant, I agree that its a joke (and you may be right that I have a preconceived agenda), but I can see some of my friends going "thats right freaknik run from that **pOp**!"  Not the "Wow thats a nice jab at the flaws of this superlative lifestyle."

Super Saiyan 3
Shadowstaarr
Posts: 52,977
Registered: 11-09-2004
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

Preach, brotha!  Preach!
VirusJunkie : I DONT WANT THAT MAN ON MY CO0CH!

ban dat dude!

If I die today, it'd be a holiday.

Still Gold
Posts: 2
Registered: 11-04-2003
0

Re: the Race for Racism

[ Edited ]

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

I post very little. Actually I don't think I post on this board very much at all...

 

I tried to enjoy freaknik the musical as best I could but I couldn't really do that. I don't think it's racist however. I think it is degrading towards women and as users have said before encourages a lifestyle I can't approve of (IE shirking all responsiblities "You don't gotta watch your kids" ) and encouaging materalism ("You don't have to have any bread [money] you just have to act rich [IE use your credit irresponsably]), and blaming all the problems of the proletariat on the white man IE Freaknik was killed by the "white man" is as just a irresponsible view  as blaming all your problems on mexicans or black people as the KKK and other racist groups do. That being said Freaknik is not being racist as it skims around the major issues by just talking about the "rapper" lifestyle. 

 

As far as women goes women were shown as "hoes" or just plain butts. Taken out of context of freaknick it would be considered very lewd and obsene. Thats all for now.

Message Edited by blue_crow_st on 03-16-2010 07:22 PM
Message Edited by blue_crow_st on 03-16-2010 07:23 PM
Gundam Pilot
Bebop-
Posts: 44,274
Registered: 01-30-2004
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Re: the Race for Racism

Reply to SwimMod_Luuv - Message ID#: 53588764

Holy sh!t did you seriously just use the term 'old money'

 

Mods be trollin' 

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