01-28-2012 03:04 PM
01-28-2012 05:57 PM - edited 01-28-2012 05:57 PM
A lot of people are going to say Greed because of his shield, but I'm going to say Wrath.
Wrath is a trained fighter. Greed is a street brawler: he comes at you fast and hard and uses up all his energy and focused mentality is the first 3 minutes. Wrath is calculating with his strikes, has an awareness to his own body's stamina and conserves his energy in order to last through a long fight, and has a keen sense of defense, even without a shield to protect his body. His reflexes can save him from most of Greed's attacks because he's fighting with his fists and he isn't in danger of being wounded unless the injury comes from the environment around him.
If you remember the fight between them in Brotherhood, Greed just barely raised his shield in time to keep from having his throat slit. If he hadn't run away, he would have tired himself out, causing his reflexes to be slower, and Wrath would've killed him, I'm sure.
In my mind, Wrath wins.
(This feels like the Ultimate Warrior show on Discovery! How fun!)
01-28-2012 07:55 PM - edited 01-28-2012 07:56 PM
Yes, I understand Wrath is the better fighter.
But how exactly would Wrath defeat fully armored Greed?
Remember that it is a fight to the death.
01-28-2012 10:12 PM - edited 01-28-2012 10:41 PM
No, that is not true at all. Why would you say that?
And it doesn't matter how calculating Wrath is. It doesn't matter that Wrath can conserve his energy and stamina.
None of that is going to do beans to the Ultimate Shield.
01-28-2012 11:09 PM
here's a question: why do you pose these kinds of debatable qustions where you're sure there's only one answer? How does that breathe life into dead boards when there's no discussion? and then you get mad when no one answers you with a longer detailed answer. If there's only 1 answer, what's to discuss?
And if he doesn't have to concentrate to keep it up, why then did he have to force it up to avoid his throat being cut by Wrath when they first fought? Why wouldn't he attack Wrath in full shield then?
01-28-2012 11:33 PM
I don't see you trying to breathe life into this dead board. At least I am doing something.
And I know the right answer to this question anyway. I just want to see other possible answers from you. So far, you claimed your opinion. But it is wrong, not because it is wrong. It is wrong because you are saying something that is incorrect.
He forced it up to because it was not there. And that was done in slow motion. Greed was not "Grr. Must concentrate. Man, this takes work. Protect throat." Greed was "Oh snap. Go, go, go!! Protect throat!!".
Never has there been an instance where it was a struggle to keep his shield up. Greed never got tired faster, Greed never moved slower, or anything like that.
And Greed never attacked Wrath in full shield because he is dumb. That is literally the correct answer. Once Fu died, Greed decided to put his shield up. Why he didn't do it against Pride and Wrath? He was too dumb.
So, how would Wrath defeat fully armored Greed? I will tell you how. Wrath CAN"T. There is nothing Wrath can do to penetrate Greed's impenetrable Ultimate Shield.
Unless of course, you have a way. I would like to hear it.
01-29-2012 02:07 AM - edited 01-29-2012 02:11 AM
This was created because of me correct? I'm flattered I'll give Greed the battle after being man-handled for many, many hours(perhaps days) by 60 year old Wrath without even getting in a single hit, ASSUMING Wrath only has his normal swords and nothing else AND Greed stays completely shielded the entire time.
However, what is to say Wrath doesn't have a couple explosives with him? Greed's shield doesn't protect his mouth correct? If Wrath has any explosives with him he would shove them down Greed's throat as quickly as possible, watch his head blow away, then continue to cut down Greed while he reforms until he dies. Wrath has been known to use explosives too, remember what he did to the tank? Or I dunno, maybe Greed's mouth does stay shut when he is fully shielded I honestly forget While we're on the subject of weapons though how do we know Greed's carbon is the hardest substance available? Would say a sword made out of diamond be able to cut throught it? If so Wrath could use that....also what is the situation where no running away is allowed? Are the two trapped on a piece of land surrounded by lava or something? If so Wrath throws Greed into the lava/electricity/bottomless pit/whatever and wins that way Is it just a matter of Pride(see what I did there) I find it hard to believe Wrath would be dumb enough to continue a fight he knows he couldn't win and doesn't need to fight in the first place...
My point is Wrath is clearly the superior combatant one on one, you have to make some pretty specific rules for Greed to win. He only has a chance to tie under normal circumstances.
Also Greed ran away against Wrath and Pride because he probably knew Pride could just EAT him...
01-29-2012 02:36 AM
Oh boy. Lots of scenarios.
Ok, let's see.
Well, Wrath's swords were shown to actually break after connecting with Greed's Ultimate Shield. So, I don't really see how the manhandling would work.
Greed's mouth does open. But I looked at the inside of his mouth, and there is Ultimate Shield inside his mouth too. So explosives would not work. Although, I give you lots of credit. That is a pretty good solution to defeat Greed. Can't hurt him from the outside, then hurt him from the inside. Too bad the inside of his mouth is protected.
Well, they do mention numerous times that Greed's shield is the hardest substance available. Wrath even says that Greed has the impenetrable Ultimate Shield. A sword made of diamond wouldn't work for that reason.
I say no running away because I don't want any cheap answers. Just like with Greed vs Lust. People actually answered that they wouldn't fight because Greed does not fight women. And also, you could answer any fight with a running away solution. Too easy and boring. Greed wants Wrath dead in that moment. Wrath wants Greed dead in that moment too.
I don't really need any specific rules. Just each homunculus at their absolute best and no running away.
Well, at that moment, Greed dumbly didn't have the Ultimate Shield on fully. I am sure that Pride's teeth would break if he tried to eat Fully Armored Greed.
01-29-2012 03:04 AM
What I mean by the man-handling is that Wrath basically judo-flipped Greed when he didn't have any swords available so I see him basically doing take-down moves like that on Greed for a LONG time before Greed gets a single hit in. Even at 60 Wrath is that much better of a hand-to-hand fighter and has the ultimate eye going for him too, He'd tire eventually of course, but I'd imagine it would take a while. Is Greed's throat/innards protected by the shield too? Let Wrath shove the explosive all the way down then
Also you forget Pride could always just entrap Greed in his many shadowy tentacles for basically ever, but I'd assume he could likely just swallow him whole ala Gluttony before he resorted to a centuries long waiting game
01-29-2012 03:30 AM
Oh no!!!!! You figured out my answer. My next topic was going to be Pride vs Greed. I would have mentioned that although Pride can't cut or eat through Greed's Ultimate Shield, he can have his shadows wrap around Greed's body and hold him there until Greed taps out or something. Let's just keep that between you and me.
I see what you mean. Although I don't think judo flipping would really hurt Greed. It would probably just annoy him. And I don't really think Wrath can make Greed eat a bomb or anything. Although he can try, I suppose. But Greed also has a really small mouth when he goes full Ultimate Shield. Heck, he does not even have lips anymore. All his teeth are outside his mouth.
And before you say it, Ling did put a bomb in Gluttony's mouth, but Gluttony didn't eat it.
But if somehow Wrath is able make Greed swallow a bomb, and if his insides are not protected, than Wrath might have a chance.
Other than that, Greed would pretty much own Wrath.
01-29-2012 03:44 AM
If by own you mean being totally outclassed but wearing indestructible armor making it not matter....then yes, I agree
Also I thought about it and couldn't Pride in his container simply just go on foot to a lava pool with his shadows dragging Greed behind and chuck him in?
01-29-2012 03:50 AM
Let's try and leave that to the Pride vs Greed topic I made.
I suppose that can be possible. But can lava burn the Ultimate Shield? Wrath describes it as the IMPENETRABLE Ultimate Shield.
Impenetrable means "impossible to pass through".
So, lava should not be able to pass through the Ultimate Shield and burn Greed. But I don't know. There is also the good question of if Roy Mustang can burn Greed to death if Greed has the Ultimate Shield fully on.
That is the only Homunculus that I can see Roy Mustang have trouble with.
I can see Roy Mustang pretty much easily burn Pride, Lust, Wrath, Envy, Sloth, and Gluttony to death. But Greed? I don't know.
01-29-2012 03:59 AM
01-29-2012 04:10 AM
Well, Mustang was getting ready to fight Pride and had his eyes on Pride while moving Hawkeye to safety.
Wrath then attacked out of nowhere. Mustang turned around and pretty much went "OH Snap!!!" He then just blindly got out an attack as quickly as he could with the little space he had. Because of that Wrath was able to dodge.
But yeah, you are right that Wrath and Pride would be the hardest of the homunculi to burn to death. Envy, Gluttony, and Sloth should be pretty easy. Greed is unknown. And Lust was smart and disable his fire alchemy and techincally Mustang got lucky. If Lust just had 1 more life left, her spear would have pierced Mustang's head.
Then again, Lust was only able to attack because Mustang stopped burning at that part.
01-30-2012 10:11 PM
Nothing to say now?
That's what I thought.
About how they say you're not "breathing life into the board"? I agree. I think you're causing more strife than life. And that your attitude is very close-minded towards anything that doesn't fit with your personal preferences. And I know for a fact that your personality has actually driven people away from your threads.
Now, I'm not saying that style of personality is a bad thing. It can be very, very good. Just not if your mission is to bring people together.
01-30-2012 11:58 PM
It only seems that way because people give their answer using incorrect information.
If you want to say Wrath can beat fully armored Greed, that's fine. But, you have to support your answer with correct speculation. Somebody mentioned that Wrath could put a bomb inside Greed's mouth. That is creative. Can Greed be made to swallow the bomb and blow up from the inside? That is cool.
Another person said that Greed had to "concentrate" to keep his shield up. That person pretty much implied that if the battle is long enough, that Greed could get too tired and drop the Ultimate Shield. Like "Oh, man! I am too tired. I can't keep my shield up anymore. Drops Ultimate Shield on account of running out of energy. Wrath kills him." That is just "No!!!!". That is wrong. There is no evidence whatsoever for that. That is just wrong.
01-31-2012 02:45 PM
You're staging imaginary fights between fictional characters from a cartoon show. You have to understand that this all mostly hypothetical. Whatever scenario your imagination comes up with to justify a certain character winning, another person's imagination can just as easily come up with a scenario where that same character loses.
A lot of what you consider to be "correct information" is simply theories and speculation based on maybe seeing something similar happen within the show (without the show giving us an explanation). The combat abilities of the Homunculi are hard to label as fact. What we know is just based on what we saw during the few battles they fought. And who knows just how all of it worked, or what skills they may have had that we didn't see. You're saying it's impossible that Greed needs to concentrate to use his Shield. Show me the evidence that disputes that. There isn't. We're never told just how Greed makes the shield work. Maybe it does take some sort of mental concentration. We know that he consciously controls it so some sort of focus needs to be exerted at least slightly.
Now we're sticking bombs in Greed? That's why this all hypothetical. How do your "facts" defend against that? If people are suggesting that, you have to admit it's getting crazier and more "out there". I know! Let's move the fight to shark tank filled with frenzied sharks. Or it could be inside an active volcano. You have no idea how these would affect the fight.
01-31-2012 03:34 PM
I am not saying that it is impossible for Greed to concentrate on his Ultimate Shield. I am saying that it is impossible for Greed to get tired and drop his Ultimate Shield. Does Lust get so tired that she can't use her Ultimate Spear? Does Envy get so tired that he can't transform?
Sticking bombs in Greed is more possible than Greed getting tired and dropping his Ultimate Shield. I am not saying that it would work. I watched the episodes, but I saw that inside Greed's mouth, it is all black. He has no tongue anymore, and his teeth are on the outside of his mouth. His mouth is protected by the Ultimate Shield. But if by some miracle, Greed swallows a bomb, then maybe Greed blows up. I don't know. This scenario is at least based on facts of where his Ultimate Shield is, and the possibility of whether his insides are protected or not. Do I think it would work? No!!! But it is a good answer.
Greed getting tired and dropping his Ultimate Shield is wrong the whole way. None of the Homunculi ever get tired in the first place. Much less enough to not be able to use their powers.
I am putting the fights in the most fair positions. That way, nobody gets an advantage and there is no stupid terrain obstacles.
01-31-2012 05:30 PM
How do you know it's impossible? Just because we didn't see it in the few battles we saw? It's possible they could get tired. Just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it's impossible. And his fight against Wrath light lend credence to that. With Greed taking such damage, why would he not go full shield? It's possible that Wrath's furious onslaught made Greed lose his concentration or made him too weak to extend it.
I'm assuming Greed still has his tongue. I'm going to say that animators didn't bother to fully illustrate the inside of Greed's mouth. Otherwise, how could he talk? You need a tongue to enunciate.
This is why you have be more open to other opinions and ideas in a discussion like this. And you can't just say "it's impossible" without having any evidence to back up that claim. Lust was around for 250 years. So there was plenty of her life we didn't see. I'm saying it's possible that during that long lifespan, she might have fought a battle that caused her to be tired.
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