Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

[ritster21]

This is a fight to the death. No running away.

Pride vs Greed(Fully Armored Ultimate Shield)

[BUU8800]

You already have my response to this.

[ritster21]

Let's see what everybody else would say.

[Meilag32]

Can Pride break through Greed's shield?  We never found this out.  If Pride can't, then it's probably a tie.  Pride can't cut through Greed and Pride's abilities would be enough to keep Greed from landing any sort of blow.  Of course, if Greed is able to turn the lights off, then Pride loses. 

So, either Pride wins If he is able to get through the shield.  Or Greed can possibly win if his shield is able to withstand Pride's shadow attacks and is able to exterminate all light sources in the vicinity and then find him.  

[ritster21]

We did find out. Edward fought Pride using his own version of Greed's Ultimate Shield on his automail. Pride couldn't cut him. Also, Pride's shadows ricocheted from the floor and attacked Greed's chin. Greed used his Ultimate Shield, and it protected him.

So, yep. Pride can't cut Greed.

[Meilag32]

I'm discounting Ed's.  And I'd like to see more evidence than one attack.  I wonder what would happen if Pride tried eating Greed just he did to Gluttony. 

But if Pride can't, then it's a tie, unless Greed gets really lucky. 

[ritster21]

You're discounting facts? Are you saying that Ed's automail arm might be more durable than Greed's Ultimate Shield?

And all it takes is one attack anyway. Greed's Ultimate Shield is not going to break from constant attacks. And even Pride knows he can't cut Greed. During the fight against Edward, Pride said "What is this? Why can't I cut him?" and then after Edward told him, Pride said "Eh?! A carbon base? So, he's taking a cue from Greed."

 Pride attacked Edward's automail lots of times and it never broke. Edward never worried that it might break from constant attacks.

So, yeah. Pride can't cut Greed.

If Pride did eat Greed, than Pride would be unstoppable. Pride would probably make his "Selim" body Ultimate Shield. A mini Ultimate Shield kid. And then his shadows may or may not be Ultimate Shield.  If Pride gets trapped, Pride can use his Ultimate Shield claws to get out.

[Meilag32]

I'm saying Ed's attempt isn't Greed's.  What Ed does can't count as evidence for Greed.  And who knows, maybe he did make a better shield.  Maybe Ed's alchemical skill is just that good.  A carbon base means that the base element is carbon.  There is still other elements in play.  Greed utilized the carbon within flesh.  Ed utilized the carbon within steel.  They are different things. The compositions of the shields would have been different, at least in part.  Your argument would work if Greed and Ed made their shields by changing the original form (flesh and automail) into an entirely different element.  But they didn't.  We know they simply manipulate the carbon within the original form to make the shield. 

The whole "Ultimate" thing is simply a nickname given to a few Homunculi.  Doesn't mean someone else couldn't best it. 

[hawkflame]

Not that it changes your point, but technically it wasn't Ed that manipulated the carbon in his automail.  Rather the carbon based automail was made by Winry when she was called up to make the adjustments to his arm and leg in Briggs.

[Meilag32]

He did to make the shield we're talking about. 

Winry changing what metal the automail was made out of doesn't make a difference.  But I did forget that part (mostly because I don't care about Winry).  So it wasn't the carbon in steel he was manipulating, it the carbon in whatever other metal she used.  I forget what. 

[ritster21]

Yep. I have seen all what I needed to see. Wrath himself said that Greed has the impenetrable Ultimate Shield and Lust has the Ultimate Spear that could pierce any substance. You actually think that it might have been possible for Edward's automail to be more durable than Greed's Ultimate Shield.

You probably think that Pride is not the strongest homunculus.

Well, I am going to give out the correct answer.

Pride wins!!!! Pride would just wrap his shadows around Greed like we have seen him do in the show. He would hold him in a bear hug like move. It won't hurt Greed, but Greed would be trapped. Pride would just hold Greed there forever until Greed taps out and gives up.

For my future topics, I am going to leave Greed out. Since some people, for some reason, choose to go against the manga and claim that The Ultimate Shield can break.

[BUU8800]

Wait....Greed would tap out in a fight to the death....that seems rather illogical/unlikely....

[ritster21]

Tap out as in giving up.

Greed would get sick and bored of being trapped in Pride's shadows and Pride would only let him go if Greed drops the Ultimate Shield. Greed does so after a long time, and Pride eats him.

Pride wins.

[BUU8800]

I understood what you meant, but do you really think Greed is weak enough to commit suicide?

[ritster21]

Greed did the first time with Father.

Maybe Greed plans to give Pride a stomachache after.

[BUU8800]

That seemed like a much more hopeless situation to me though, plus I thought Wrath's swords were preventing him from keeping the ultimate shield up anyway....isn't that what you said?!

[ritster21]

Huh? What are you talking about? Where does Wrath fit into this?

[BUU8800]

You say the first Greed gives up against Father, yet in an earlier comment you say he was only killed because the ultimate shield couldn't be used thanks to the swords Wrath sticks into him. I forget if it was this thread or another, but you did say that. So why would he WILLINGLY put the ultimate shield down against Pride just for being trapped for a while?

[Meilag32]

Hmph...me too.  Yes, I do think that.  Or at least, someone could come up with something equally as strong.  I know that you place way too much importance on those "Ultimate" nicknames that Lust, Greed, and Wrath have.  Nowhere, NOWHERE is it ever stated that those titles mean anything.  Those nicknames are barely referenced at all, let alone giving any evidence backing your argument that they are the strongest of the strong.  All you have is conjecture and hearsay to support your argument.  You base all your evidence on a nickname that hasn't been explained in the slightest.  And then, you dispute all claims that don't end with the Ultimates winning.

No, I'm pretty sure I put Pride as number one on your list thread you made a while ago.  I'd like to think he's the strongest, at any rate.  But I'm not going to just assume that without really analyzing it. 

Obviously, your "correct answer" is getting some lash-back from the community.  That exact situation was what I said would be a tie.  Pride can't hurt Greed and Greed would be unable to land a blow on Pride due to Pride's shadow abilities.  Except Greed doesn't tap out like some dumb wrestling match. 

Some people don't just accept what what they first see as fact without thinking about it and analyzing it.  Show me definitive evidence that Greed's shield can't break.  And not just quotes from characters.  How do you know Wrath possessed every bit of info the world had to offer on Greed's alchemical shield?  Show me something from either the author or the anime creators that explicitly states that Greed's shield can never, ever break. 

[ritster21]

What community? You and Buu are the only people here.

And yeah, I know it would be a tie if Greed NEVER taps out, and they stay that way for all eternity. I did the whole tap out thing on purpose. I was waiting for someone to comment specifically on that.

But yeah, on a serious note:

NO HOMUNCULUS can defeat fully armored Ultimate Shield Greed. Pride is more powerful, but he can't hurt him, and Greed can't either.

[Meilag32]

You THINK no homunculus can beat Greed.  Because we didn't see otherwise in the show.  Except Wrath kicking Greed's ass. 

I was wondering if Gluttony could eat through Greed's shield.  Either his normal mouth or his true mouth.  He's supposed to be able to eat through anything. 

And you still haven't backed up your claim (that Pride can't cut through the shield) with any new evidence. 

[ritster21]

I don't think. I KNOW that no homunculus can beat Fully Armored Ultimate Shield Greed.

And Gluttony being able to eat anything is only in the first anime. Not in Brotherhood.

You actually think that Ed's automail might be more durable than Greed's Ultimate Shield. You are hopeless in that regard.

[Meilag32]

You DON'T know.  You assume.  And making an ass out of yourself while doing it. 

I'm pretty sure if Gluttony got pissed off he could "grab" half of Greed's body like he did to Envy.

Yes.  And apparently I wasn't the only one.  I brought a good, strong argument to the table.  You responded with an insult.  Guess that means I win.  If you're resorting to insults, you've gotten nothing else to fall back on as far as proof is concerned. 

[ritster21]

What good strong arguement? You have contradicted the manga by saying Pride can cut Greed even though it has been shown that he can't.

[Meilag32]

Read what I put. 

And did anyone (either within the series, or by one of the creators) ever say that it was impossible?  No?  Then you don't have hard fact.  We never saw it happen.  But that doesn't mean it couldn't.