Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

[ronin6401]

Am I the only one who thinks Scar has a right to his revenge.  Considering what the State alchemists did to his family and his people, regardless of whether or not they were being manipulated by father and the homonculi, that doesn't excuse them from responsibility nor does it cancel out karma.

[RubberLuffy]

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ronin6401 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks Scar has a right to his revenge.  Considering what the State alchemists did to his family and his people, regardless of whether or not they were being manipulated by father and the homonculi, that doesn't excuse them from responsibility nor does it cancel out karma.

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Sure, but Scar lost any justification the moment he went after State Alchemists who didn't even take part in Ishval, like Ed.  That is what revenge can do to a person, just killing those responsible for Ishval wasn't enough, he went after Ed and presumably other non-war Alchemists.  I don't think "guilt by association" is justfiable in his case.

[film_nut]

Not to mention going after Armstrong, who actually refused to take part in the conflict at all.

Even if Scar did just target the State Alchemists that took part in the massacre, he wouldn't e doing any good anyway. The choice he makes at the end to instead go help rebuild his home is what he should have done in the first place.

[doxiedachsie]

But, like Ed, he too had a lesson to learn.

[mmmagus1]

I agree with RubberLuffy. He got carried away and if he really wanted revenge, then why not just go after the one who declared war on Ishval, King Bradley(Wrath)? He didn't have to go after Ed. There was eventually no more reason to feel sorry for him. The guy thought he was an "Agent of God", which SOUNDS really cool at first, but cmon: this muthaf**ka was crazy! He should've went after people like Wrath and Kimbly. Kimbly was the one who went after non-combatants(Scar knew THAT since he ran into Kimbly) and gave Scar his scar in the first place. Scar had the right idea trying to get revenge, but he was so full of s**t that I just couldn't feel sorry for him.

[mmmagus1]

I disagree. He had a right to his revenge. After having pretty much all of his people killed off, how could he rest until he at least TRIED to get revenge? THEN he could go home and start rebuilding, not that there would have been much reason to rebuild(at least not that much) since almost all of the Ishvalans were dead. But still, like I said, some of the alchemists had it coming. Even though the state alchemists WERE just following orders, they knew what they signed up for when they became state alchemists. And couldn't they have just refused to take part in the conflict same as Armstrong anyways? Just wondering.

[hawkflame]

No one has a right to revenge.  If they did, people would live in a state of lawlessness. 

Besides, he was also willing to kill guys like Ed and Armstrong.  Would it have been okay to kill them too?

[mmmagus1]

That's what I was saying and you could see that if you looked at both my comments. I'm not exactly supporting the guy. It WOULDN'T have been okay for Scar to kill them cause they didn't do anything to him. That's what I was saying. And wtf do you mean no one has a right to revenge? That's bull**beast**! Of course some people have a right to revenge! And by that, do you mean that "only God can judge" or some other preachy bull**beast** like that?!

Note: Not really mad. Well, you didn't make me TOO mad. It's just that whenever someone says some **beast** like this, it drives me crazy. That's all. But you're entitled to your opinion, I guess.

[hawkflame]

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mmmagus1 wrote:

That's what I was saying and you could see that if you looked at both my comments. I'm not exactly supporting the guy. It WOULDN'T have been okay for Scar to kill them cause they didn't do anything to him. That's what I was saying. And wtf do you mean no one has a right to revenge? That's bull**beast**! Of course some people have a right to revenge! And by that, do you mean that "only God can judge" or some other preachy bull**beast** like that?!

Note: Not really mad. Well, you didn't make me TOO mad. It's just that whenever someone says some **beast** like this, it drives me crazy. That's all. But you're entitled to your opinion, I guess.

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No one has the right to take the law into their own hands.  If you killed someone, do you think a jury's going to let you off with the defense of "Not guilty due to revenge"? 

If Scar killed Mustang, does Hawkeye have the right to kill Scar out of revenge?  And if Hawkeye then killed Scar, does May have the right to kill Hawkeye out of revenge?

Revenge isn't a right for anyone, period.  An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[mmmagus1]

The law has nothing to do with it. They're not gonna let you do it cause THEY want to control everything. fuuuuuudge the jury. And btw revenge is basically subjective karma. It keeps goin like karma, but it isnt always completely fair, but then again life isn't fair either now is it? You cant expect that person to care why that other person killed their friend. Everybody is naturally gonna only care about avenging loved ones regardless of why they died or what they did to deserve it. That's the meaning of revenge: subjective karma, not objective.

BTW: I know this sounds crazy, but its hard for me to put this into the right words which is why it sounds like this. I hope you get what I'm trying to say anyway.

[mgangel1124]

I can understand him wanting revenge against the people directly responsible for the decimation of his people, but he has absolutely no right to go after a child who had nothing to do with it, and especially not the innocent bystanders like Alphonse who were trying to protect his targets.

[mmmagus1]

If Scar killed Mustang, then yeah I think Hawkeye would probably have a right to revenge since Mustang was about as innocent as a state alchemist could get when it came to the war. From what I saw when they were having flashbacks of it on the show, he was only defending himself. Here's another way of thinking of this whole thing that makes more sense. Scar AT LEAST had the right to go after Kimbly(since he killed non-combatants and gave Scar his scar) and King Bradley(since he was the one who declared war in the first place which forced the state alchemists to stain their hands with the blood of the Ishvalans). The others you can say were innocent but not THOSE 2. Fair enough?

[RubberLuffy]

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mmmagus1 wrote:

If Scar killed Mustang, then yeah I think Hawkeye would probably have a right to revenge since Mustang was about as innocent as a state alchemist could get when it came to the war. From what I saw when they were having flashbacks of it on the show, he was only defending himself. Here's another way of thinking of this whole thing that makes more sense. Scar AT LEAST had the right to go after Kimbly(since he killed non-combatants and gave Scar his scar) and King Bradley(since he was the one who declared war in the first place which forced the state alchemists to stain their hands with the blood of the Ishvalans). The others you can say were innocent but not THOSE 2. Fair enough?

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When carrying out an extermination order, you are the aggressor and you can't call it "defending yourself".  Mustang is definitely guilty of committing terrible acts.  A man who can control fire is not "defending" himself by roasting alive a bunch of people with pitchforks and rifles, let alone any non-combatants caught in the blaze.  Same with Armstrong, innocent blood is on his hands because he made a wall blocking some fleeing Ishvalan civilians, which allowed them to be gunned down, and then ran away instead of doing something to try to lessen the amount of bloodshed.  Bradley gave the orders, but Mustang, Armstrong, Kimblee, Comanche, Gran and any other participating alchemists followed those orders.  And so did Hawkeye and Hughes.

There's a part in one of the manga gaiden's and in the 4th OVA, where Mustang is lamenting what he's doing, and how a country could such a thing, and Hughes tells him they have their orders and a job to do.  He gives him some time to compose himself and tells him it is time to go back to work.  "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.  Mustang is guilty and he knows it.

[mmmagus1]

Alright Im not sayin there's no way that they're also guilty, but Scar could've just settled for killing Bradley and Kimbly instead of going after everybody. I believe in revenge and all but let's not get crazy with it. I mean after all he DID try to kill Ed and Al, so he's obviously getting out of hand by just going after ALL state alchemists instead of the ones responsible. That's all. Can we at least agree on that?

[ALchemist81]

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RubberLuffy wrote:

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mmmagus1 wrote:

If Scar killed Mustang, then yeah I think Hawkeye would probably have a right to revenge since Mustang was about as innocent as a state alchemist could get when it came to the war. From what I saw when they were having flashbacks of it on the show, he was only defending himself. Here's another way of thinking of this whole thing that makes more sense. Scar AT LEAST had the right to go after Kimbly(since he killed non-combatants and gave Scar his scar) and King Bradley(since he was the one who declared war in the first place which forced the state alchemists to stain their hands with the blood of the Ishvalans). The others you can say were innocent but not THOSE 2. Fair enough?

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When carrying out an extermination order, you are the aggressor and you can't call it "defending yourself".  Mustang is definitely guilty of committing terrible acts.  A man who can control fire is not "defending" himself by roasting alive a bunch of people with pitchforks and rifles, let alone any non-combatants caught in the blaze.  Same with Armstrong, innocent blood is on his hands because he made a wall blocking some fleeing Ishvalan civilians, which allowed them to be gunned down, and then ran away instead of doing something to try to lessen the amount of bloodshed.  Bradley gave the orders, but Mustang, Armstrong, Kimblee, Comanche, Gran and any other participating alchemists followed those orders.  And so did Hawkeye and Hughes.

There's a part in one of the manga gaiden's and in the 4th OVA, where Mustang is lamenting what he's doing, and how a country could such a thing, and Hughes tells him they have their orders and a job to do.  He gives him some time to compose himself and tells him it is time to go back to work.  "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.  Mustang is guilty and he knows it.

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And fortunately you'll be seeing that OVA DUBBED for sale sometime in 2012!  Will it end up on [as]?  Now THAT remains to be seen!

[CorbeauKarasu]

revenge is not the way to rest. and it doesn't leave room for rebuilding. he was going down a path that would just have ended in blood.

"What the dead wish for is not revenge, but for their loved ones left behind to find happiness."

[mmmagus1]

Psssh. w/e dude. that's your opinion. lol you're such an idealist. People like u give me headaches smh.

[westpark]

I do.

Somebody did that to my family I'd go ape#### 2....

[mgangel1124]

So you would attempt to murder a fifteen-year-old boy who had absolutely nothing to do with the deaths of your family simply because he later joined the group that was responsible?