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Magil wrote:
All right...since it seems like some people are going to feel like they're in over their heads with the stuff that Norb and Dr. Bear discussed in the first half of the episode...I'll give what I got out ot it to try and help contribute to understanding this, because it's very important.
Our realm is the third realm, or the third dimension if you will. Norb describes the seventh realm/seventh dimension as the "thoughts of living beings." Norb also cites the trapars as an example of the two dimensions intersecting, as trapars are the thoughts of the Scub Corals. But the seventh dimension can only handle so much, and that's why most of the Scub Corals are in hibernation. If they were all to awaken, it would shatter both dimensions because the seventh realm would be overloaded, hence the "Limit of Questions."
That's what I got out of it. As for the rest, it seems that they need Eureka to remain a coralian at least until she passes through the Great Wall and communicates with the Scub Coral.
This deserves bumping...I must admit, I was a bit confused about the whole thing, like everyone else, but this actually really helped clear things up for me. In fact, I apologize to everyone: I skipped over pretty much everyone's posts just to see the other posts by Magil...everything is a lot more clear now. Magil, whoever you are, kudos! Thanks for answering all of our questions! 
Okay, I'm sorry, but I have to give props to Dewey...I can't help lovin' a good villian that knows how to manipulate the masses with such flare. That performance was just so freaking perfect. *claps* The stirring speech, turning the crowd against the Sages, the footage of the attack, Anemone as the "Goddess of War", praising Adrock Thurston as the one who set up everything for him (a particularly nice touch), and, especially, the solemn look he has on when he announces that the capital is (supposely) under attack and his declaration that he will ride off and save it. In short, he's Goda with a nicer face. And, no matter how much you may hate him, he freaking pwned in this episode.
Also, Dewey's plan isn't to wipe out all of mankind, or even to awaken the scub coral. I think he's trying to destroy the scub coral before they(it?) wakes up. He's trying to find the central mass...and blow it up. In a way, he technically is trying to help mankind...but obviously, he's very much a "End Justify the Means" kind of guy. Plus, he's using the battle against the scub coral to further his own ends...like taking on the Sage council.
Okay, now that I'm down with Dewey...on to the rest.
I agree with MasterSamson that Dominic might just be the one person that Stoner needs to read the article to make a difference. You can see it in his face and the way he acts. He's no longer Dewey's faithful servant, that's for sure.
And, what the hell is wrong with Master Norbu??? "I ate too many beans...." LOL! That, and after he said that, he said "Everything happens as is decided by the Voderak. (or something like that)" and I thought he was referring to his flatulence again! (That would certainly be a great copout for when one passes wind: "It wasn't me...it was the will of the Voderack!") But seriously...I don't understand why this guy is so laid back...he wasn't like this when he was with Dewey and he certainly did act like this when he first met Holland....
The battle of spirituality and science...a very interesting debate that had quite an interesting turn in this episode. Science and religion aren't as different as them seem.... Like someone up above said, the Voderack sounds a lot like the Tao. It is everything...and yet it is nothing. As for everything else, I concur with Magil. The scubs are sleeping to save the world from destruction, their thoughts move in the form of the trapars, that when Norbu says that "they are our ships", he means that the scubs will serve as our road to communicating with them, and especially the whole concept of our thoughts (our "questions") taking place in another dimension. In a way, it's sort of a scientific confirmation of our "soul", a "self" seperate from our material body. And, I was wondering where the LFOs fit into all this, but again, mentioned above was the fact that it takes a human and a corallian to operate one properly, and from there, to the Great Wall, where, perhaps, the rip in reality can be used to communicate with the scub coral directly. In a way, it seems to have been perfectly planned...the only wild card in this equation is whether or not humans will figure it out enough to act in time.... Also, the scubs apparently managed to do all this while dreaming...would that make Eureka the dream of the scubs? (Final Fantasy fans might know what I'm getting at here. 
)
Shew. Quite an episode. And more revalations to come, I'm sure. 
Peter_Wacker wrote:
Zetsue wrote:Yeah, same here. I won't be able to come to the message boards for a monthso......
G'nite everybody! See ya in a month!Damn!
I guess I'll see you in a Month then!
Well, it's nice to know i'll be missed. jk
At least i'll be back in time for April 4th 4:07 a.m. which marks 1 year since i joined the [as] message boards because of epsiode 49 of FMA.
G'nite for real this time. See ya in a month everybody.
Message Edited by Zetsue on 01-21-200701:27 AM
The majority of the scubs went into hibernation long before humans arrived on that planet. They even said in this episode that the area inside the "Great Wall" was created when a meteor crashed into the planet thousands of years before the arrival of man and awoke the hibernating scubs causing a "Limit of Questions" overload. The scubs just managed to go back into hiberation in time to prevent a complete collapse of both deminsions. So destroying all humans is not really a viable solution since there is already an over-abundance of scubs.
Asian_Minority wrote:wait. if the scub is hibernating and people didnt know about it till now, that means it mustve been there before the humans. so destroying all humanity = possible fix
Magil wrote:
Norb says that the trapars are the thoughts of the scub corals. And I believe you are correct in saying that the number of humans doesn't matter that much to the Limit of Questions, presumably because the number of scub corals/coralians is far greater than the number of humans(though that's a theory). The important part is that if all the scub corals woke up, the limit would be surpassed, regardless of how many humans there are. Dr. Bear says that Dewey plans on annihilating all the scub corals before this can happen, no matter how many human lives it costs.
8GUAGE!!! my old friend, nice to have you back.
8GaugeBrett wrote:The majority of the scubs went into hibernation long before humans arrived on that planet. They even said in this episode that the area inside the "Great Wall" was created when a meteor crashed into the planet thousands of years before the arrival of man and awoke the hibernating scubs causing a "Limit of Questions" overload. The scubs just managed to go back into hiberation in time to prevent a complete collapse of both deminsions. So destroying all humans is not really a viable solution since there is already an over-abundance of scubs.
Asian_Minority wrote:wait. if the scub is hibernating and people didnt know about it till now, that means it mustve been there before the humans. so destroying all humanity = possible fix
Magil wrote:
Norb says that the trapars are the thoughts of the scub corals. And I believe you are correct in saying that the number of humans doesn't matter that much to the Limit of Questions, presumably because the number of scub corals/coralians is far greater than the number of humans(though that's a theory). The important part is that if all the scub corals woke up, the limit would be surpassed, regardless of how many humans there are. Dr. Bear says that Dewey plans on annihilating all the scub corals before this can happen, no matter how many human lives it costs.
yup, absolutely.
So I actually watched this on the Fix Friday night, but I wanted to save my big post for this thread. So here it is. 
It seemed like there were two fairly distinct sections to this episode. We had the informational overload in the first half, and Dewey working his manipulational mojo in the second half. I have to say that the latter did a lot more for me; even though we were presumably given a whole lot of important info about the world our characters are living in and what's going on with the larger picture, a lot of it seemed awfully... like it just kind of came out of nowhere. Scubs are ships? The entire world is going to turn into a total void? Um... yeah, you guys work with that.
But seeing Dr. Bear and Norbu playing off of each other was pretty entertaining. Dr. Bear with all of his scientific hypotheses and Norbu with his age-old spiritual wisdom. At least they came to a consensus rather than fighting with each other. (And am I the only one who thinks that the crew there should have been briefed before the camera was turned on? )
So let's see what we've got here... Scub corals are intelligent life forms, which we had already heard about from Adrock's theories. And the Coralians are a communication tool of the scubs. The scubs create Antibody Coralians when they're provoked, much like human bodies produce white blood cells to fight an infection. Okay then.
And... if there are too many intelligent life forms (or "living hesitations" to the Vodarac), they'll like overload the planet, causing the world (the "third plane" according to Norbu) to disappear, leaving only a void where all laws of physics are meaningless. Such a place exists as a "warped space" within the Great Wall (that big swirling cloud formation that we saw during the Gekko's trajectory flight), which was presumably created when a meteor struck the planet and awakened the scubs there. Awakening the scubs is an issue because most of them are currently hibernating, and apparently unconscious scubs don't count toward the intelligent life quota that will make the planet go boom. But if something wakes all of the scubs up (like, say, dropping a crapload of bombs on them), then we've got problems. Okay.
So then we've got something about the scubs being ships and they want to take people to another plane or something and like the tenth plane is where they have to go and thoughts have energy which is like the seventh plane which affects the third plane like how Compac drives are trapar amplifiers and the skyfish come when you think happy thoughts, because they like energy or something. And Coralians and humans are meant to pilot the Nirvash as a team, and like they have to get beyond the Great Wall which is like the future except that I don't remember if that's the thing that's going to save the world or destroy it. That's probably important. And "Vodarac" is actually like a state of being rather than a god, and I guess you either get it or you don't. And... stuff. Yeah.
So... that's about what I got out of that end of it. Like I said, some of that sounds awfully farfetched, but I guess I'll just see where they go with it. Presumably the show isn't going to let its entire premise unravel into a completely ridiculous mess.
So then we have Dewey showing us why he's not ready to tattoo "PWNED" on his forehead just yet. All of Gekko State's cards don't mean much when Dewey beats them to the table, and man did he put on a spectacular show to get the propaganda machine going. All of that information-gathering he had his loli squad doing? Setup for his big staged display. So he knows just how to provoke the scubs so they'll release the Antibody Coralians where he wants to have his "monsters" start attacking a city for no reason (presumably right where he's got his cameras set up). And he knows how long it takes for the Antibodies to do their little crumbly thing, so he sends in Anemone at that precise moment to make it look like she's the one destroying them. (And it's a doubly impressive manipulation to make his poor little failure-prone pilot desperate to prove herself think that she's finally kicking some a.ss in battle. She's obviously all too happy to be turned into the people's darling heroine.) And how about that stadium show? He just happened to get the camera crews and the big-screens and all of those people there to hear his speech? (Hmm... I suppose that could have been an evacuation center for people leaving the city... but they certainly didn't seem to know too much about the attacks until they saw the footage...) That was one ballsy production he put on. Everything set up perfectly to make it look exactly like he wanted, so that he could play the people's hero and stir up the populace. I actually felt my stomach tighten watching him, knowing what he was doing and seeing how good he was at it. One thing I find interesting is that he effectively took over the airwaves to broadcast his message to people in other areas, but it sounded like the people in this city hadn't really gotten reliable news from other places that had been attacked. They had just heard about other cities' towers being taken out, and were left to their own rumors about what had happened to them. Of course, that kind of disconnect and lack of real information serves Dewey's purposes nicely. And meanwhile he's telling them about an attack on the capital, which who knows if that's real or not. And he puts all of the blame on the "rotten" Sage council, for apparently not doing enough to protect the people and being stupidheads or something. So it's a good thing our man Dewey is on the scene to clean the place up. Oh, and he's all up there invoking Adrock, the previous champion of the people who saved the world. 'Cause, you know, Adrock was totally about using the Ageha project to obliterate the scubs. Presumably Dewey thinks that it's actually possible to eliminate all of the scubs before they awaken, possibly by finding this central core he's talked about. Good luck with that, man. I'm glad it's not my planet you're going to be turning into the Twilight Zone.
Okay, so meanwhile we have Norbu being gassy and generally kind of boorish (which is an awfully intriguing way to present your super-powered high-level monk, actually), and Mischa and Dr. Bear getting lovey-dovey again (at least if Behemoth Man can lose some weight), and Eureka is changing too fast as she tries to become more human. And that's not so great, because the things that have to happen to save the world and stuff have to happen while she's a Coralian. Which makes sense with this whole partnership thing, bringing together humans and Coralians. So Norbu and Holland have to get a move on with whatever they're going to be doing. And Norbu said something about a promise that the two of them made to Sakuya (Norbu's Coralian lover), which is interesting considering that she seemed to be out of the picture by the time Holland met Norbu during that botched attack with the SOF. So hopefully we'll find out more about what that entails. And Renton is finally connecting dots and realizing that his heroic father who died in a Seven Swell with the Nirvash might have actually known Eureka. So hopefully we'll get some more skinny on him next time.
Well, not bad.
It seemed like there were two fairly distinct sections to this episode. We had the informational overload in the first half, and Dewey working his manipulational mojo in the second half. I have to say that the latter did a lot more for me; even though we were presumably given a whole lot of important info about the world our characters are living in and what's going on with the larger picture, a lot of it seemed awfully... like it just kind of came out of nowhere. Scubs are ships? The entire world is going to turn into a total void? Um... yeah, you guys work with that.
But seeing Dr. Bear and Norbu playing off of each other was pretty entertaining. Dr. Bear with all of his scientific hypotheses and Norbu with his age-old spiritual wisdom. At least they came to a consensus rather than fighting with each other.
(And am I the only one who thinks that the crew there should have been briefed before the camera was turned on? )So let's see what we've got here... Scub corals are intelligent life forms, which we had already heard about from Adrock's theories. And the Coralians are a communication tool of the scubs. The scubs create Antibody Coralians when they're provoked, much like human bodies produce white blood cells to fight an infection. Okay then.
And... if there are too many intelligent life forms (or "living hesitations" to the Vodarac), they'll like overload the planet, causing the world (the "third plane" according to Norbu) to disappear, leaving only a void where all laws of physics are meaningless. Such a place exists as a "warped space" within the Great Wall (that big swirling cloud formation that we saw during the Gekko's trajectory flight), which was presumably created when a meteor struck the planet and awakened the scubs there. Awakening the scubs is an issue because most of them are currently hibernating, and apparently unconscious scubs don't count toward the intelligent life quota that will make the planet go boom. But if something wakes all of the scubs up (like, say, dropping a crapload of bombs on them), then we've got problems. Okay.
So then we've got something about the scubs being ships and they want to take people to another plane or something and like the tenth plane is where they have to go and thoughts have energy which is like the seventh plane which affects the third plane like how Compac drives are trapar amplifiers and the skyfish come when you think happy thoughts, because they like energy or something. And Coralians and humans are meant to pilot the Nirvash as a team, and like they have to get beyond the Great Wall which is like the future except that I don't remember if that's the thing that's going to save the world or destroy it. That's probably important. And "Vodarac" is actually like a state of being rather than a god, and I guess you either get it or you don't. And... stuff. Yeah.
So... that's about what I got out of that end of it. Like I said, some of that sounds awfully farfetched, but I guess I'll just see where they go with it. Presumably the show isn't going to let its entire premise unravel into a completely ridiculous mess.
So then we have Dewey showing us why he's not ready to tattoo "PWNED" on his forehead just yet.
All of Gekko State's cards don't mean much when Dewey beats them to the table, and man did he put on a spectacular show to get the propaganda machine going. All of that information-gathering he had his loli squad doing? Setup for his big staged display. So he knows just how to provoke the scubs so they'll release the Antibody Coralians where he wants to have his "monsters" start attacking a city for no reason (presumably right where he's got his cameras set up). And he knows how long it takes for the Antibodies to do their little crumbly thing, so he sends in Anemone at that precise moment to make it look like she's the one destroying them. (And it's a doubly impressive manipulation to make his poor little failure-prone pilot desperate to prove herself think that she's finally kicking some a.ss in battle. She's obviously all too happy to be turned into the people's darling heroine.) And how about that stadium show? He just happened to get the camera crews and the big-screens and all of those people there to hear his speech? (Hmm... I suppose that could have been an evacuation center for people leaving the city... but they certainly didn't seem to know too much about the attacks until they saw the footage...) That was one ballsy production he put on. Everything set up perfectly to make it look exactly like he wanted, so that he could play the people's hero and stir up the populace. I actually felt my stomach tighten watching him, knowing what he was doing and seeing how good he was at it. One thing I find interesting is that he effectively took over the airwaves to broadcast his message to people in other areas, but it sounded like the people in this city hadn't really gotten reliable news from other places that had been attacked. They had just heard about other cities' towers being taken out, and were left to their own rumors about what had happened to them. Of course, that kind of disconnect and lack of real information serves Dewey's purposes nicely. And meanwhile he's telling them about an attack on the capital, which who knows if that's real or not. And he puts all of the blame on the "rotten" Sage council, for apparently not doing enough to protect the people and being stupidheads or something. So it's a good thing our man Dewey is on the scene to clean the place up. Oh, and he's all up there invoking Adrock, the previous champion of the people who saved the world. 'Cause, you know, Adrock was totally about using the Ageha project to obliterate the scubs. Presumably Dewey thinks that it's actually possible to eliminate all of the scubs before they awaken, possibly by finding this central core he's talked about. Good luck with that, man. I'm glad it's not my planet you're going to be turning into the Twilight Zone. Okay, so meanwhile we have Norbu being gassy and generally kind of boorish (which is an awfully intriguing way to present your super-powered high-level monk, actually
), and Mischa and Dr. Bear getting lovey-dovey again (at least if Behemoth Man can lose some weight), and Eureka is changing too fast as she tries to become more human. And that's not so great, because the things that have to happen to save the world and stuff have to happen while she's a Coralian. Which makes sense with this whole partnership thing, bringing together humans and Coralians. So Norbu and Holland have to get a move on with whatever they're going to be doing. And Norbu said something about a promise that the two of them made to Sakuya (Norbu's Coralian lover), which is interesting considering that she seemed to be out of the picture by the time Holland met Norbu during that botched attack with the SOF. So hopefully we'll find out more about what that entails. And Renton is finally connecting dots and realizing that his heroic father who died in a Seven Swell with the Nirvash might have actually known Eureka. So hopefully we'll get some more skinny on him next time. Well, not bad.
Cille wrote:
So I actually watched this on the Fix Friday night, but I wanted to save my big post for this thread. So here it is.
It seemed like there were two fairly distinct sections to this episode. We had the informational overload in the first half, and Dewey working his manipulational mojo in the second half. I have to say that the latter did a lot more for me; even though we were presumably given a whole lot of important info about the world our characters are living in and what's going on with the larger picture, a lot of it seemed awfully... like it just kind of came out of nowhere. Scubs are ships? The entire world is going to turn into a total void? Um... yeah, you guys work with that.
But seeing Dr. Bear and Norbu playing off of each other was pretty entertaining. Dr. Bear with all of his scientific hypotheses and Norbu with his age-old spiritual wisdom. At least they came to a consensus rather than fighting with each other.
So let's see what we've got here... Scub corals are intelligent life forms, which we had already heard about from Adrock's theories. And the Coralians are a communication tool of the scubs. The scubs create Antibody Coralians when they're provoked, much like human bodies produce white blood cells to fight an infection. Okay then.
And... if there are too many intelligent life forms (or "living hesitations" to the Vodarac), they'll like overload the planet, causing the world (the "third plane" according to Norbu) to disappear, leaving only a void where all laws of physics are meaningless. Such a place exists as a "warped space" within the Great Wall (that big swirling cloud formation that we saw during the Gekko's trajectory flight), which was presumably created when a meteor struck the planet and awakened the scubs there. Awakening the scubs is an issue because most of them are currently hibernating, and apparently unconscious scubs don't count toward the intelligent life quota that will make the planet go boom. But if something wakes all of the scubs up (like, say, dropping a crapload of bombs on them), then we've got problems. Okay.
So then we've got something about the scubs being ships and they want to take people to another plane or something and like the tenth plane is where they have to go and thoughts have energy which is like the seventh plane which affects the third plane like how Compac drives are trapar amplifiers and the skyfish come when you think happy thoughts, because they like energy or something. And Coralians and humans are meant to pilot the Nirvash as a team, and like they have to get beyond the Great Wall which is like the future except that I don't remember if that's the thing that's going to save the world or destroy it. That's probably important. And "Vodarac" is actually like a state of being rather than a god, and I guess you either get it or you don't. And... stuff. Yeah.
So... that's about what I got out of that end of it. Like I said, some of that sounds awfully farfetched, but I guess I'll just see where they go with it. Presumably the show isn't going to let its entire premise unravel into a completely ridiculous mess.
So then we have Dewey showing us why he's not ready to tattoo "PWNED" on his forehead just yet.
Okay, so meanwhile we have Norbu being gassy and generally kind of boorish (which is an awfully intriguing way to present your super-powered high-level monk, actually
Well, not bad.
Well, something I found interesting was what Mischa said about the Antibodies being produced by the scubs when they're provoked. So it seems like the Antibodies aren't just sitting there among the population of scubs on the planet waiting to be woken up. They're actually being created at the time of the attack. So it's not like wiping out a bunch of them when they attack cities is really helping cut down on the number of Coralians/scubs on the planet. So it seems like Dewey is really banking on finding this central core thing and wiping out all of the scubs at once. 'Cause trying to eliminate them piecemeal is only going to keep getting cities destroyed.
And if Renton hasn't yet figured out that Eureka is a good bit older than him, he hasn't been paying attention.
And if Renton hasn't yet figured out that Eureka is a good bit older than him, he hasn't been paying attention.
Wow, Norb is really.....interesting....kinda gross....
What is all this talk of third plane, and seventh plane, and tenth plane? Does it have anything to do with the Seven Swell, or the Summer of Love, which, what is that anyway? Have they ever explained that, or how Adrock was involved?
It seems the series still has quite a few questions to answer, but thankfully, they still have ample time to do it.
And as for Diane.....I have my own theory as to what became of her....can't wait to see if I'm right or not, just to stop wondering....
Cille wrote:
Well, something I found interesting was what Mischa said about the Antibodies being produced by the scubs when they're provoked. So it seems like the Antibodies aren't just sitting there among the population of scubs on the planet waiting to be woken up. They're actually being created at the time of the attack. So it's not like wiping out a bunch of them when they attack cities is really helping cut down on the number of Coralians/scubs on the planet. So it seems like Dewey is really banking on finding this central core thing and wiping out all of the scubs at once. 'Cause trying to eliminate them piecemeal is only going to keep getting cities destroyed.
And if Renton hasn't yet figured out that Eureka is a good bit older than him, he hasn't been paying attention.
Well the Antibodies are created after the initial attack. So the bomb hits and thousands of real Coralians are destroyed, Then they ones who survived the bombing creat antibodies to basicaly counter attack.
I figure Dewey is somewhat succeding because when those kids first attack the scubs they said they figured the casualties were in the several thouasands.
Yeah just see an outside view of one of the ships windows... then just randomly one of those kids flys out it. Then we pan to Dominic slapping his hands together in victory
bandnerdswimfan wrote:Also, with the Loli Squad being so malicious, I can't wait for Dominic to go off on them, verbally or (hopefully) physically.I want him to beat a few of them down
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