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SwimHotshot
Posts: 8,924
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Asian_Minority - Message ID#: 34394679

What's the alternative to beating his own arm with the rock, I ask? And would it have worked better? I think that was the probably the absolute best thing he could've done in that situation. It INSTANTLY brought Eureka out of her funk, and reaffirmed that he'd do anything to bring them together all in one masterful stroke. Just saying it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.
"Browsing the internet in the dead of the night is a sign of mature refinement."
Hanyū, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

"It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that. That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny, "evil, but for a good cause" crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch--Bitch." -Xykon, lich sorcerer
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matrixman124
Posts: 28,249
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Magil - Message ID#: 34394740

Well, I think he went a bit overboard...
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Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to matrixman124 - Message ID#: 34394725

the dirt part was fine. i mean just because shes not human didnt mean it wouldnt work.but i agree with raiden. rentons actions shouldnt but defined as the best thing to do
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SwimHotshot
Posts: 8,924
Registered: ‎01-20-2007
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to matrixman124 - Message ID#: 34394725



matrixman124 wrote:
Ooooh.  Getting defensive, eh?
Well, I'd say that Renton acted irrationally mainly since he forgot that she wasn't human.  If he had remembered that, then by his rationale, putting dirt on her arm wouldn't do anythng.  Now, I don't even think those green things even looked like swelling bruises or anything, so I don't understand how Renton could have mistaken them for human ailments...


Well, they DID appear on her scars, rather, they replaced the scar tissue. Are you going to write that off as coincidence? I think it would be very rational to assume that the wounds were getting worse somehow, and that was just how Eureka's coralian body reacted to it.
"Browsing the internet in the dead of the night is a sign of mature refinement."
Hanyū, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

"It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that. That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny, "evil, but for a good cause" crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch--Bitch." -Xykon, lich sorcerer
SwimLegend
Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
Registered: ‎06-16-2005
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Magil - Message ID#: 34394740



Magil wrote:
What's the alternative to beating his own arm with the rock, I ask? And would it have worked better? I think that was the probably the absolute best thing he could've done in that situation. It INSTANTLY brought Eureka out of her funk, and reaffirmed that he'd do anything to bring them together all in one masterful stroke. Just saying it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.


was it the best thing? no
did it work? yes and no
sure eureka feels better, but that didnt solve the problem they were trying to solve did it?
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SwimNerd
Raidenandsolid
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎04-06-2006
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to matrixman124 - Message ID#: 34394725

Because he was more worried about Eureka's emotional distraught rather than her physical situation.
You would think after running in circles 20 times, that on the 21st try I would remember what I had already done.. Confusing and pointless isn't it?
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anime_fan_800
Posts: 10,291
Registered: ‎10-17-2004
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Magil - Message ID#: 34394783



Magil wrote:


matrixman124 wrote:
Ooooh.  Getting defensive, eh?
Well, I'd say that Renton acted irrationally mainly since he forgot that she wasn't human.  If he had remembered that, then by his rationale, putting dirt on her arm wouldn't do anythng.  Now, I don't even think those green things even looked like swelling bruises or anything, so I don't understand how Renton could have mistaken them for human ailments...


Well, they DID appear on her scars, rather, they replaced the scar tissue. Are you going to write that off as coincidence? I think it would be very rational to assume that the wounds were getting worse somehow, and that was just how Eureka's coralian body reacted to it.



that makes sense to me.
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SwimNerd
Aurabolt
Posts: 276
Registered: ‎09-13-2006
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Raidenandsolid - Message ID#: 34394721



Raidenandsolid wrote:
I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. You are basically saying it was the only thing he could have done with a statement like that. He could have tried many other things that could have worked closed to efficiently, and I am pretty sure something else could have worked even better that would not have involved hurting himself. You are totally taking this either to seriously and/or way out of proportion.


I understand how emotional people are. I have been one many times. Normal actions, such as holding or soothing the person don't work. Renton was trying to prove a point without words: this is it. Maybe you'll see it better.

Renton: "I Love you. I Love you so deeply, that I am willing to be like you. To share your pain. The experience, the anguish, the devestation of your psyche. This "infection" you have makes you hurt. I want to know hoy much you hurt inside, but I can't. This is the only way I can hope to relate. I love you. I love you, Eureka."

That's what he meant. It's dedication. It's heartfelt, and it was the right thing to do.
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Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
Registered: ‎06-16-2005
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Aurabolt - Message ID#: 34394844

your making it sound like words were the only alternative besides the rock
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SwimHotshot
Posts: 8,924
Registered: ‎01-20-2007
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Asian_Minority - Message ID#: 34394802



Asian_Minority wrote:


Magil wrote:
What's the alternative to beating his own arm with the rock, I ask? And would it have worked better? I think that was the probably the absolute best thing he could've done in that situation. It INSTANTLY brought Eureka out of her funk, and reaffirmed that he'd do anything to bring them together all in one masterful stroke. Just saying it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.


was it the best thing? no
did it work? yes and no
sure eureka feels better, but that didnt solve the problem they were trying to solve did it?


What was the problem they were trying to solve, if not to bring Eureka and Renton back together? I mean, none of this has anything to do with their purpose on Earth(or at least not that we can see). It DID solve the 'problem,' which was Eureka feeling isolated and different.

And, if it wasn't the best thing, then what was, I ask?
"Browsing the internet in the dead of the night is a sign of mature refinement."
Hanyū, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

"It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that. That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny, "evil, but for a good cause" crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch--Bitch." -Xykon, lich sorcerer
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Aurabolt
Posts: 276
Registered: ‎09-13-2006
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Asian_Minority - Message ID#: 34394883

The words I used depict what he wanted to say with his actions. And it worked.

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Nothing beats a good Saturday of D&D, Gaming, and Adult Swim. Keep up the good work!

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Cille
Posts: 56,902
Registered: ‎05-03-2005
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to matrixman124 - Message ID#: 34360671

Mutiny! Unrest! Power to the peoples!

So it looks like Stoner's swan song has done its job. Not only did it get the attention of Jurgens and Dominic, but it's been making the rounds among lifters and the underground counterculture, and it seems to have gotten out to the general populace as well. It was pretty clever how the article obviously targeted lifters, pointing out how the military was taking over lifting spots and how Dewey's actions against the scub coral would affect the ability to lift at all. Good way to rile up the masses, right there. :smileyvery-happy: And it seems to have been quite effective, even after people seemed to be so convinced by Dewey's speeches and how hopeless Gekko State's cause seemed to be. But maybe the people were already suspicious of the military, with all of the problems and unrest that had been going on (and that Dewey had a part in creating to assist his rise to power).

The big story, of course, is the conversion of Jurgens and Dominic. They were smart in realizing that something foul was afoot and that what was reported in that issue of ray=out might be the truth, and they might have just been pawns in a greater treachery against the planet. It was still pretty gutsy of them to approach Gekko State and be taken in the way they did, especially since they had been called in to join a bigger force that presumably wasn't as enlightened as they were. But it worked out, of course, thanks to the video footage of the interview with Norbu and Dr. Bear. (Who apparently hasn't lost that 10kg yet, if he has to be ferried around on a forklift cart. :smileyvery-happy:) And that was a damn good speech Jurgens made to convince his comrades to join him in mutiny. We've gotten to know his crew members a bit over the course of the series, and they seem to be good sorts, but it goes to show that there are others in the military who can think for themselves and don't just blindly follow orders, even if they've been on the faceless side. And of course there are some who are suspicious about all of this and have a hard time accepting that they're supposed to all of a sudden be friends with a bunch of mercenary terrorists who they've been used to fighting against. But since Jurgens is the man, and he has truth and awesomeness on his side, it looks like he won over a pretty good portion of the troops there. And now they can go Fight the Power! Hooah!

Dominic was pretty cute trying to convince Holland and the others that his intentions were noble. And then admitting that it was because he wanted to save the girl he loved. Interesting that he realizes it's mostly an infatuation, as long as she won't give him the time of day. I half expected them to start hazing him once he started sounding like Renton. :smileyvery-happy:

And poor Anemone gets told (in no sympathetic terms, I'm sure) that Dominic has dumped her and run off. And it figures, in her mind, that as soon as she thinks she might have found someone she can trust, he ditches her and goes thinking of his own neck. And yet she doesn't realize that he's doing it for her sake. I'm guessing the loli squad didn't tell her that he had gone to join up with Gekko State to fight against Dewey, since that would have made him look too assertive and maybe given her some hope. So once again she's just left with her despair and bitterness. :smileysad:

And Dewey's still just like "whatevah, beeyotches" about the big defection. Guy's got no shortage of self-confidence.

And meanwhile Gulliver is still large and in charge, although he seems to have finally lost the battle against friction there. :smileyvery-happy:

And back on Earth, or what looks like it, we get to see more of Eureka's glowification, which she apparently recognizes as something that has to happen to her since she's different from humans. And she's ashamed of it, or afraid that Renton and the kids will see her differently, or something. When she was telling Renton not to look at her it reminded me of Sakuya's reaction to having Norbu seeing her glowing. But where Norbu comforted her by exclaiming that it was beautiful, Renton... decides to match her by bashing his own arm with a rock. O...kay. Too bad Holland didn't think to stash a therapist behind the seat. :smileyvery-happy: And Eureka takes a cue from Talho and calls him an idiot for doing something so foolish. :smileyvery-happy: And then Renton's overtures get Maurice all riled up, since he thinks that this is all just part of Renton trying to take his mama away from him. So we finally get the culmination of the jealousy and stuff that's been building up right from the start. So the five-year-old grabs a rifle that's as tall as he is, and apparently he knows how to use it. And then Eureka pulls a switch and starts guilt-tripping him about not liking her the way she is. Sigh. She did have a good point, though, that she didn't want Maurice to live with the regret over having killed someone that she constantly feels. So I guess they resolved that, including Maurice's lingering bad feelings about how Eureka killed their actual mother(s). Since I presume that they didn't all come from the same family, unless there was some very peculiar gene distribution going on there. And I guess Eureka got over her issues, at least enough to go sit with Renton on the beach. And was it me, or was that an awfully abrupt sunrise? Maybe Maurice was just spying on them for a long time. But I still want to know what's with those columns or bands of darkness or whatever they are in the distance. Well, there's a lot I want to know about, but I guess that's just going to have to wait. At this point, though, it's good to see that the kids have reached an understanding again, and hopefully they'll get past the internal conflict and drama and be able to actually deal with Eureka's transformation and whatever else they're supposed to be doing there. Whether it's negotiating with the scub corals as Holland said, or winning at Survivor, or whatever craaaazy stuff is going to be happening to them.

Also, just because I haven't said it in a while... Holland is hot. :smileytongue:
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Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
Registered: ‎06-16-2005
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Aurabolt - Message ID#: 34394912



Aurabolt wrote:
The words I used depict what he wanted to say with his actions. And it worked.



yeah but you dont know there isnt some other way that wouldnt result in renton being seriously ill and therefore putting everyone in stage 3 worry
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anime_fan_800
Posts: 10,291
Registered: ‎10-17-2004
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Cille - Message ID#: 34394920

props on the post.  Good as always.
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SwimLegend
Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
Registered: ‎06-16-2005
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Magil - Message ID#: 34394890

well eureka miraculous being cured wouldve worked as well..
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Raidenandsolid
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎04-06-2006
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Aurabolt - Message ID#: 34394912

I still disagree that doing what he did was the ONLY way to snap her out, Magil just seems to be to emotionally attached to the situation and defends it emotionally on top of that.

You would think after running in circles 20 times, that on the 21st try I would remember what I had already done.. Confusing and pointless isn't it?
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Aurabolt
Posts: 276
Registered: ‎09-13-2006
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Asian_Minority - Message ID#: 34394973

Sure, there were complications, but that only proves his point even more so. he loved her so much that he risked pain, and in the same way, now sickness. I think that works rather well.
I am not a Bodybulider! -Sabin, FFVI

Nothing beats a good Saturday of D&D, Gaming, and Adult Swim. Keep up the good work!

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anime_fan_800
Posts: 10,291
Registered: ‎10-17-2004
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Asian_Minority - Message ID#: 34395030



Asian_Minority wrote:
well eureka miraculous being cured wouldve worked as well..



but that wasn't possible.
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SwimLegend
Asian_Minority
Posts: 19,691
Registered: ‎06-16-2005
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Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to anime_fan_800 - Message ID#: 34395089



anime_fan_800 wrote:


Asian_Minority wrote:
well eureka miraculous being cured wouldve worked as well..



but that wasn't possible.

whoa, whoa.... never say that in for an anime :smileymad::smileytongue:
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ASMB The Shed / MMM
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SwimHotshot
Posts: 8,924
Registered: ‎01-20-2007
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Cille - Message ID#: 34394920

I usually like your posts Cille, but I can't agree with your assessment of Renton and Eureka's actions...at all :smileytongue:

Just sayin'. I think both of them did the right thing. And their big moment in this episode is one of the most touching things I've ever seen in anime, has me in tears nearly every time I watch it.
"Browsing the internet in the dead of the night is a sign of mature refinement."
Hanyū, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

"It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that. That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny, "evil, but for a good cause" crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch--Bitch." -Xykon, lich sorcerer
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anime_fan_800
Posts: 10,291
Registered: ‎10-17-2004
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Magil - Message ID#: 34395118



Magil wrote:
I usually like your posts Cille, but I can't agree with your assessment of Renton and Eureka's actions...at all :smileytongue:

Just sayin'. I think both of them did the right thing. And their big moment in this episode is one of the most touching things I've ever seen in anime, has me in tears nearly every time I watch it.



Yeah that was the most heart felt moment in anime I have seen thus far. 

The only other ones even close would be Keiichi and Belldandy and Kazuki and Yuna, but not near on the level of Eureka and Renton.

Well What Do I Do NOW??
SwimNerd
Raidenandsolid
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎04-06-2006
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to anime_fan_800 - Message ID#: 34395242



anime_fan_800 wrote:


Magil wrote:
I usually like your posts Cille, but I can't agree with your assessment of Renton and Eureka's actions...at all :smileytongue:

Just sayin'. I think both of them did the right thing. And their big moment in this episode is one of the most touching things I've ever seen in anime, has me in tears nearly every time I watch it.



Yeah that was the most heart felt moment in anime I have seen thus far. 

The only other ones even close would be Keiichi and Belldandy and Kazuki and Yuna, but not near on the level of Eureka and Renton.



I'm assuming you are referring to Maburaho right? But the other girls had their emotional moments, although the only other heartfelt moment I had was with Kazuhiko? (or w/e the blonde haired girls name was).. when she was in her dress and the clock struck midnight. His other childhood friend didn't really do much emotionally, neither did the girl with the sword.

Oh and for Oh! My Goddess, it's emotional like every 5 eps for the first season, and the 2nd season was like every 2..

And then the manga.. YIKES.. but I liked it.

 

OK back to on topic... what was it again?


You would think after running in circles 20 times, that on the 21st try I would remember what I had already done.. Confusing and pointless isn't it?
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anime_fan_800
Posts: 10,291
Registered: ‎10-17-2004
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Raidenandsolid - Message ID#: 34395408



Raidenandsolid wrote:


anime_fan_800 wrote:


Magil wrote:
I usually like your posts Cille, but I can't agree with your assessment of Renton and Eureka's actions...at all :smileytongue:

Just sayin'. I think both of them did the right thing. And their big moment in this episode is one of the most touching things I've ever seen in anime, has me in tears nearly every time I watch it.



Yeah that was the most heart felt moment in anime I have seen thus far. 

The only other ones even close would be Keiichi and Belldandy and Kazuki and Yuna, but not near on the level of Eureka and Renton.



I'm assuming you are referring to Maburaho right? yes But the other girls had their emotional moments, although the only other heartfelt moment I had was with Kazuhiko? (or w/e the blonde haired girls name was).. when she was in her dress and the clock struck midnight. His other childhood friend didn't really do much emotionally, neither did the girl with the sword.

Oh and for Oh! My Goddess, it's emotional like every 5 eps for the first season, and the 2nd season was like every 2..

And then the manga.. YIKES.. but I liked it.

 

OK back to on topic... what was it again?





Well What Do I Do NOW??
SwimHotshot
Posts: 8,924
Registered: ‎01-20-2007
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

Reply to Raidenandsolid - Message ID#: 34395408

The topic is that Renton and Eureka were on top of their game as characters today, both of them brought their conflict between them and between Maurice and Renton to a conclusion in a beautiful and masterfully done fashion. :smileytongue:
"Browsing the internet in the dead of the night is a sign of mature refinement."
Hanyū, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

"It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that. That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny, "evil, but for a good cause" crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch--Bitch." -Xykon, lich sorcerer
SwimNerd
w4rma
Posts: 275
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
0

Re: Eureka seveN: Episode 45 AS Discussion

[ Edited ]

Reply to matrixman124 - Message ID#: 34360671

Definitely a fantastic and emotional episode.  I'm going to try my hand at a recap, this week.

Eureka runs off into the forest because she believes that noone can love a non-human like her.  The kids and Renton run after her.  She stumbles and falls and the kids stop when they see that she is glowing.  I find it interesting that Maurice even takes a step back from the light into the shadows of the trees when he sees what shape she is in.  But Renton doesn't hesitate.  So Renton just thinks she's hurt or something and she reminds him that she's not human.  So, Renton figures out the problem instantly and decides that his solution is going to be to smash his arm to make it more like hers since he doesn't know what to do about her arm.  He gets in a good number of licks and she stops him and calls him an idiot for doing it.  And so she's okay.  The hold each other and the trauma is seemingly over.

Enter Maurice with Charles's rifle.  He is jealous of Renton and, as the oldest and the one who remembers the event the best, he is still angry at Eureka for mowing down his real mom.  So he lets everything out that has been bothering him all this time and is right on the verge of shooting Renton in the head to try to "turn it all back" to the way things used to be before Renton came along.  Eureka calms him down, in another well written monologue, by telling Maurice that even though she has those green bumps she still has the same smile and therefore is still the same person.  She then tells him she doesn't want Maurice to live with the regret of killing another like she has to live with.  So Maurice lowers the gun and drops it when Eureka hugs him.  Renton picks up the gun and says that this isn't how Charles would have wished it to be used.  And, more importantly, Renton professes his own love for the children as if they were his own.

Meanwhile, Jergens and Dominic are thinking about rebelling against Dewey's faction of the military.  Stoner's recent Ray=Out peaked their interest and, along with the horrific deaths of the three Eureka look-a-likes, they have begun doubting Dewey's storyline.  They decide that the printed words in Ray=Out aren't enough proof for them, so they need to go talk to Dr. Bear and the Gekko State for themselves.  They go unarmed (although apparantly they did have the Izimo's capacity of KLFs behind them) to the Gekko.  Dr. Bear shows them everything that he is able to explain to them.  They are convinced and while Jergens starts a mutiny within the military, Dominic offers to join the Gekko State directly.

Jergens speech was rousing, but apparently only good enough for most of the crew of his own ship (who knew and trusted him the best).  Dominic's reason for saving the planet isn't good enough for the Gekko State, but his professed love/"infatuation" (It's interesting that Gulliver wakes up and jumps off Dominic's bed at this point) with Anenome reminds them all of Renton and so they accept him as one of their own.

Afterwards and elsewhere, Dewey is informed of the mutiny and makes the decision not to do anything about it.  And Anenome is informed, apparantly by a couple of the loli squad, about the mutiny and Dominic's leaving her and she breaks down in tears believing that "he ran away" from her.

Meanwhile Maurice tries the rock thing on himself and realizes that rocks really hurt and Renton had to put himself through a lot of pain to hit himself so many times and so hard that he was bleeding through the bandage.  So, it appears that Renton earned Maurice's respect.  This time he goes with Maeter and Link to pick the fruit and offers one to Renton when he wakes up.  Renton reaches for the fruit Maurice offered him with a smile, but collapses from his wound, exhaustion and maybe worse.

Message Edited by w4rma on 03-18-200703:25 AM

"Don't ask for it. Go out and win it. Do that and you will be rewarded." - Adrock Thurston