General Action Discussion

[VLN]

[OBJECTIVE OF THIS THREAD]
This is a thread in which we all learn a little bit of Japanese language through one of our favorite anime, Cowboy Bebop, and by doing so, better understand the world of Bebop, and discover things that may have been lost in translation. It is only part of my futile attempt to comprehend this wonderfully complex series... so if you're not interested, please leave me alone...

[FAQ]
Q1: Why Bebop and not Inuyasha!?
A1: Because Bebop is my favorite [as] show. Don't get me started on why it's not Inuyasha...(I don't hate Inu like other Inu-haters do. I do watch Inuyasha. I think Inu is too broad of a topic to cover anyway.)

Q2: This thread belongs in the [Babbling] folder.
A2: We can also discuss how the world of Bebop is structured in Japanese, and things we may only see in Japanese version. In a sense, we're trying to see a bigger picture of the Bebop world. So I think it belongs in here. I guess we shouldn't get too technical with the Japanese language stuff, in order to keep this thread in this folder.

Q3: Can I ask you to translate that line from this episode to Japanese?
A3: If you ask me politely... I might... and someone else might help you, too.

Q4: Can I ask you to translate what Kagome said to Inuyasha!?!?

A4: If you ask me politely... uh, no.

Ok, 3, 2, 1, let's jam!

Message Edited by VLN on 07-28-2004 03:49 AM

[VLN]

[SESSION #1]
I'll start with one of the opening scenes, where spike is complaining about Jet's "special dish." (not necessarily an important scene, but just for starters...)

[English Dub]
Spike: Hey, Jet...I thought you said "Bell peppers-and-Beef." You wouldn't call it "Bell peppers-and-Beef" if there ain't any beef in it, now would you?

[In Japanese (You need Japanese fonts or muti-language Win XP/Mac OSX installed on your PC to view this properly) ]
スパイク: ジェットさんよぉ、チンジャオロースっつったよなぁ? 肉のないチンジャオロースなんてのは、チンジャオロースとは言わねえんじゃねえのかなぁ?

[In Japanese, romanized (This is how you pronounce it)]
Spike: Jet-san yo、chinjaorousu tuttayonaa? niku no nai chinajorousu nantenowa、chinjaorousu towa iwaneenjaneenokanaa?

[EXPLANATION]
First of all, the words(or phrases) that are in the same color correspond to each other. I didn't change names of the characters, so you can see how "Jet" in romanized Japanese corresponds to the one in English dub, both in green.

Notice how Spike calls Jet "Jet-san." -San, as many of you may know, is the most commonly used suffix when calling someone politely. Obviously, Spike calls Jet simply "Jet" in Japanese version as well, but in this case, Spike is not showing his respect for Jet (or being polite, for that matter) but is being sarcastic about the comment he's going to make (I believe this is the only time he calls Jet w/ "-san".) When Japanese people call someone really close (who you usually call them by their first names) with -san at the end of their names, it's usually when they're being sarcastic, or making a joke, or trying to be funny.

"Yo" following "Jet-san" corresponds to the "Hey" part of "Hey, Jet." It's a very rowdy way to call someone, mainly used by men. (There is also a different type of "yo" used in old Japanese, but this is not it... that's another story) This one's closer to "Yo" in English (Spike starts saying "Yo" in later episodes, in English dub version as well) So you see that Spike's not really showing his respect for Jet by calling him "Jet-san."

"Chinjaorousu" is a popular chinese dish, a stir-fry of thinly sliced green bell peppers and meat (usually pork). In Japan, this popular dish is usually made w/ beef, hence the dub version's translation. Spike says "Niku no nai chinjaorousu" which means "Chinjaorousu without meat," so he doesn't really specify what kind of meat he's talking about (whereas he does in the dubbed version), but it's just common knowledge that chinjaorousu is made w/ beef. In China, the dish is usually made w/ pork, and i guess it's spelled like "qing jiao rou si." qing=green; jiao=pepper; rou=meet; si=thinly sliced. when it's made w/ beef, it'll be "qing jiao niu rou si (=青椒牛肉絲; niu=cow. niurou=beef)." Order it at your favorite (legitimate) chinese restaurant.
btw, beef in Japanese is "gyuniku." gyu=cow.

[REVIEW]
-san = suffix used after a name; a way to call someone politely.
yo = hey
niku = meat(of all kinds)
gyuniku = beef
chinjaorousu = bell peppers-and-beef (qingjiaorousi)

Jet-san = Spike being sarcastic

Message Edited by VLN on 07-28-2004 03:31 AM

[R.I.P.roxybudgy]

How long have you been studying Japanese for? Me, I've studied Japanese for 7 years. Right now, I'm not studying Japanese (because I'm at university now) with the exception of translating some Inuyasha doujinshi at http://www.geocities.com/roxybudgydoujinshi/index.html

[R.I.P.roxybudgy]

I'm wondering, how does chinjaorousu mean Bell-peppers and beef. It is written in katakana so what is the word based on?

[R.I.P.meatwad5291]

i already know how to speak a little japanese,for example:konichiwa oro namae matae de inu means good day,i have a very large dog and ora **bleep**a saru means,i lick monkeys

[VLN]

---

roxybudgy wrote:

How long have you been studying Japanese for? Me, I've studied Japanese for 7 years. Right now, I'm not studying Japanese (because I'm at university now) with the exception of translating some Inuyasha doujinshi at http://www.geocities.com/roxybudgydoujinshi/index.html

---

yes, yes,,, you must know how credible i am as far as japanese language is concerned. how silly of me not to include it in the faq. well, japanese is my native tongue, so you can trust my japanese... as for english, well, i'm doing my best.  

[R.I.P.clayton_2021]

good job on that one

[R.I.P.roxybudgy]

Native eh? Cool, can you check my translations then? I don't know any native speakers of Japanese so I would would be a great help if someone could tell me where I'm going wrong in my translations. I included ro-maji in my website so that native speakers could check it.

[Dark_Cloud_Overhead]

Yo.  That's like wow.  That's incredible how much work you put into that.  Bravo.  I was wondering, what's the name of the Romanized form of Japanese writing btw?  Is it Hiranga?  I heard there was 3 forms for it somewhere before, but I can't remember it all that well.  And do you know of any good online translation sites for the Romanized version?  I've looked around but all I can find are places that translate to and from Kanji.

[VLN]

---

roxybudgy wrote:

Native eh? Cool, can you check my translations then? I don't know any native speakers of Japanese so I would would be a great help if someone could tell me where I'm going wrong in my translations. I included ro-maji in my website so that native speakers could check it.

---

like i said in the faq, i can't really answer everyone's request (whether it's translating someone's lines or checking to see if your translation is correct), because if i help one person, then everyone else would start asking for help and it'll be chaotic. but i'll take a look, and if i get a chance, i'll help you

[VLN]

---

Dark_Cloud_Overhead wrote:

Yo.  That's like wow.  That's incredible how much work you put into that.  Bravo.  I was wondering, what's the name of the Romanized form of Japanese writing btw?  Is it Hiranga?  I heard there was 3 forms for it somewhere before, but I can't remember it all that well.  And do you know of any good online translation sites for the Romanized version?  I've looked around but all I can find are places that translate to and from Kanji.

---

Thank you! the romanized form is called "roma-ji." roma=Roman. ji=letters. roma-ji="roman-lettered." There are three kinds of characters (sort of like alphabets we use) in japanese: hiragana, katakana, and kanji. roma-ji is just a way to express japanese (hiragana, katakana and kanji) using alphabets.

i don't know any romanized translation sites....but i'll let you know if i ever find one.

Message Edited by VLN on 07-28-2004 03:48 AM

[R.I.P.roxybudgy]

Oh okay. Well, can you help me with this: I see the words koitsu and aitsu, waht do those mean? I'm geussing it means 'you' 'he' 'she'

[candeldandel]

(Crys because she fells she'll never learn Japanese well enough). Ah, I know I will, I just gotta go there and be immersed.

Very impressive, by the way... Yeah, anime helps, but people shouldn't depend on it for their only source, right? =) It's a fun language to study, anyway, without anime.

[irrelevant]

tee hee.. niku.

My friend was telling me how she was in japan (she teaches english there) and her friend thought 'neko' was pronounced as 'niku', so she eventually sees a cat, and trying to be cute, starts chasing it going 'niku niku!!'

...that's about my two sense for now

Good luck with this idea, btw~

I got as far as watching the first few dvd's in japanese. I love dvd's language/subtitle functions

[VLN]

---

roxybudgy wrote:

Oh okay. Well, can you help me with this: I see the words koitsu and aitsu, waht do those mean? I'm geussing it means 'you' 'he' 'she'

---

yes. "koitsu" and "aitsu" are just different ways of saying "he" and "she" (not "you". it's in third person). if you know a little bit of japanese, you know "koko" means "here" and "asoko" means "there." the way people use "koitsu" and "aitsu" is somewhat similer in the way they use "koko" and "asoko." "koko" is somewhere closer to you ("here"), and "asoko" is farther away ("there"). so "koitsu" is "this guy (girl)" whereas "aitsu" is "that guy (girl)." ...man, i'm terrible at explaining things! but i hope you got the idea. 

[R.I.P.roxybudgy]

What makes koitsu and aitsu different? I know that omae and temee are different beacuse of their level of politeness, but is there something like that with koitsu and aitsu?

[VLN]

---

roxybudgy wrote:

What makes koitsu and aitsu different? I know that omae and temee are different beacuse of their level of politeness, but is there something like that with koitsu and aitsu?

---

like i stated in the previous post, koitsu="this guy/girl/man/woman" aitsu="that guy/gir/man/woman." it's only a slight difference in nuances.

[R.I.P.Razimus]

I noticed in the Japanese version Spike uses the four letter S. word a lot, it's "tihs" backwards, heh., just found it suprising the first time after watching all bebop episodes twice in a row on cartoon network.

I haven't watched the other Japanese versions with english subtitles to notice any other major differences,

but I have noticed the Dubbed versions don't seem to be the same as the english subtitles, not including the cursing.

[VLN]

---

Razimus wrote:

I noticed in the Japanese version Spike uses the four letter S. word a lot, it's "tihs" backwards, heh., just found it suprising the first time after watching all bebop episodes twice in a row on cartoon network.

I haven't watched the other Japanese versions with english subtitles to notice any other major differences,

but I have noticed the Dubbed versions don't seem to be the same as the english subtitles, not including the cursing.

---

that spike... he curses a lot, doesn't he. unlike sh*t in english, japanese version of this curse word is used very casually (well, it's still a curse word) and not censored on the air. that's why you see characters saying sh*t often in many anime.

i think english (dub) translator did a wonderful job, and i like many of the english dub lines better than the original japanese lines...

[VLN]

[SESSION #2]
I've been wondering what was the exact phrase that Mao Yenrai muttered before his death, when he was assassinated by Vicious (and his men)...
These are his last words (I don't quite remember how he said it in the dub version; the following is according to my sketchy memory):

[English Dub]
Mao: If Spike were here... you wouldn't have done this...

[In Japanese Letters (You need Japanese fonts or muti-language Win XP installed on your PC)]
毛: スパイクさえ戻れば...お前など...

[In Japanese, romanized]
Mao: Spike sae modoreba... omae nado...

[EXPLANATION]
I think that's how Mao said it in the dub version (the version you see on [as]). Anyway, I'd say that what Mao says in the dubbed version is somwhat paraphrased.

The English sub says "Only if spike returns, someone like you would..." and that's closer in essence to what was said in Japanese.("Modoreba" means "if one returns." modoru=return)

Now, in the English dub, he says "you (Vicious) wouldn't have done this..." or something along the lines of that. He's talking about Vicious assassinating the rival syndicate's boss and Mao himself. But in Japanese, he only says "Omae nado..." which roughly means "Someone like you" but in a contemptuous tone.

I guess the English dub translator thought Mao was trying to say that "if Spike came back to the syndicate, Vicious wouldn't have done this." But from the sound of how he says it in Japanese, it seems like what Mao really wanted to say was: "If Spike returned to the syndicate, someone like Vicious wouldn't be as powerful as he is now." But you can also interpret from the English dub version that "you wouldn't have done this" means "you simply can't (because Spike will be in power)."

...I don't know why I brought this up, but I just remember discussing this in the debate thread a while ago, and it's been bothering me.

[REVIEW]
morodu = return
modoreba = if (one) returns
omae = you (casual/impolite)
omae nado = someone like you (in a contemptuous way)
Mao's last words = "You s.uck, Vicious! Spike rules!"

*edit* i hit "submit" while i was still editing... my bad.

Message Edited by VLN on 07-28-2004 05:21 AM

[R.I.P.BaalTov]

For my first post here, I will take this auspicious opportunity to thank the original poster for a very informative thread! Learning Japanese isn't my number one priority, but it is somewhere on that long list.

[VLN]

welcome and thank you for wasting ...ahem, dedicating your precious first post on this thread

[VLN]

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roxybudgy wrote:

I'm wondering, how does chinjaorousu mean Bell-peppers and beef. It is written in katakana so what is the word based on?

---

i forgot to reply to this post earlier, but better late than never...

the name "chinjaorousu" is derived from the chinese name (of the dish) "qingjiaorousi" which means "bell peppers and meat." like i explained in [session #1], this dish is usually made w/ pork in china (so it's not "bell peppers and beef."), but w/ beef in japan (thus the translation "bell peppers and beef"). so, chinjaorousu is just a name of the dish. it's written in katakana because it's a word of foreign origin.

Message Edited by VLN on 07-28-2004 06:18 AM

[VLN]

---

VLN wrote:

[SESSION #2]

[REVIEW]
morodu = return
modoreba = if (one) returns
omae = you (casual/impolite)
omae nado = someone like you (in a contemptuous way)
Mao's last words = "You s.uck, Vicious! Spike rules!"

---

i just found a typo in session #2...(excuse me for bumping this thread, too late to edit the post) :

it should be: modoru = to return (to go back).

btw, "to return something" (to place something back) would be "modosu." similar but different.

[VLN]

bump...i'll post something new later.