General Adult Swim Discussion

[SwimMod_Luuv]

They won't really need to redo the block entirely for Toonami to work.

They could probably get by with maybe picking up Big O S1 and Outlaw Star (which they could probably get fairly easily/cheaply.

Then maybe something for a flagshippish Toonami show like DBZ.  Possibly something for additional cycling like Hakusho.

But just that would give them a ton of flexibility, and identifiable Toonami lineup, the ability to adequately test the waters, and even the ability to cover expansion. 

DBZ could be a lead, Big O and Outlaw Star could beef up the overnight cycle.  Hakusho and Inu would make a good pair to round out the block.

It even gives them room for a weeknight hour if they wanted it.  Bleach (from ep 1) with one other show that could cycle, maybe something that's not currently running on Saturdays.

But even just a few shows could possibly give them what they need.

Of course, as a fan, there are about 1000 shows I'd like to see on AS/Toonami.  But I think they could have themselves a pretty good/solid Toonami revival and still not have to pick up a ton of new shows to do it.

[Jeebus201]

With Kai airing on Nicktoons, Z could be...problematic ongoing.

I still feel like any Toonami block should be a fresh start. It should be a new beginning for the block, and new shows, different from your Kekkaishis and Durararas is the best way of saying "We're back."

[Sketchor]

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Page 43 wrote:
TBS gets what it wants. They aired Hangover TV-14 DLS & I think they could fit everything in [as] under TV-14 DLSV. [as] uses TV-MA as more of a blanket. It's not really justified & doesn't compare to anything TV-MA on other networks. If TBS wanted RC or any of the other 15 min slot shows that wouldn't prevent them from getting it. TBS doesn't have to wait for syndication sales to get shows from other Turner companies.

I do recall reading those international sales, but there's been little to no press since. I would think if the deals were renewed or the ratings were strong there would have been some PR.

I think the 15 min slot is going to be a major hurdle when they do qualify for synd as well.

---

Good point about the MA buffer. And there is always the option of censoring some things. But if TBS gets what it wants then there is nothing stopping them from taking the prized cuts of Adult Swim. There is the matter of Turner competing with themselves though. Luckily they tend to avoid competing directly but makes you wonder how much more of a power house TBS might be adding the top rated AS originals and how that might affect Adult Swim's ratings.

[Sketchor]

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Page 44 wrote:
With Kai airing on Nicktoons, Z could be...problematic ongoing.

I still feel like any Toonami block should be a fresh start. It should be a new beginning for the block, and new shows, different from your Kekkaishis and Durararas is the best way of saying "We're back."

---

Depending on when they launch it, DRR and Kekkaishi may already be gone. I don't imagine either is considered worth keeping. Maybe DRR will get a late slot if they consider it worth airing again but if the contract is for 2 years then DRR can take a break. Kekkaishi probably does not have longer than a 2 year contract but AS may be able to finish the current run before they drop it. Time will tell.

They had better pick up 2 fresh shows minimum for the rest of the year but one or two Toonami favs would help give the line-up some much needed freshness.

They may seriously consider going for DBZ due to how well it did and since Nicktoons moved on to GT and already shares Kai with Toonzai, AS may be able to swing uncut DBZ and even start with the Buu saga to take advantage of the adults that watched Kai on Nicktoons. Believe it or not, they got around 0.3 and 0.4 with 18-49 in premieres and that's on a channel a lot of people do not have.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

I was never suggesting [as] should sell their shows to other netws or in syndication. I was just pointing out that it's a source of revenue that they don't have now & likely won't have. Still, you can't rule out TBS. Their happy with BBT, FG, & AD but they could always get an itch for Boon or RC. I would hope they wouldn't just steal it. They should have to pay from the usage out of the TBS budget or at least [as] budget should be increased at TBS expense.

NT is available in about 30-40M homes less than CN, so yes those are very impressive ratings for DBZ. I don't think it would be an issue for [as] as long as Toonami continued to cherry pick ep.

Let's not forget though that this Toonami event wasn't just about ratings. The shows they aired featured bumps to drive both traffic & sales for their sites. By the end of this month they should have those #'s. I think that's what [as] Toonami should be. Instead of a place to follow the same shows wk after wk, make it more of a showcase where more titles are featured with a sampling of cherry picked ep.

For ex: Imagine FG being a staple lead at 2:30A for the best of some anime comedy at 3A. They can start with a best of Shin Chan & as soon as it shows weakness, swap it with the best of something else. These would always be cherry picked ep so it's like turning the slots over to the producers of english subbed anime. For the shows featured, they would again get some bump time to drive traffic & sales for their sites. At the sites fans could stream the shows featured from start to finish & purchase merch & DVD/BR for the show.

From both sides (sales & ratings) I think [as] Toonami could prove very successful then.

[Sketchor]

Not sure why you're suggesting new content for 3AM on a Saturday. Who is going to sign up for that?

Cherry picking episodes works for episodic shows particularly comedies like Shin Chan or SGT Frog but a show with a fair amount of continuity or one of a serial nature is agonizing to watch as just a "best of". Toonami tried that crap with MAR and The Prince of Tennis and found people were instantly confused and ended up going back to play them from the beginning.

I do think a showcase might be a good event type program. Say they get one night uses of 4-5 shows for one month. Each airs their first episode or an early episode that wont confuse the living daylights out of someone like showing the last episode of that Tenchi OVA on 4/1. They would play an ad for the show's upcoming or existing DVD release and let people vote on which one to keep airing full time like Toonami once did with their "Power to the People" votes to bring back fan favorites for a while.

Doing a "best of DBZ" might work because people are actually familiar with the material but I would not recommend that over simply running the Buu saga in order as that is where Nicktoons left off with DBZ Kai because the Buu saga was not included in DBZ Kai. They would basically be starting where the 4/1 episode left off. The reason I say that is because they're not going to take the time or money to trim down the existing episodes (that's what Kai was for) so doing a highlights run gets a bit tricky with some fights taking multiple episodes. They could do it and maybe they will but I'd rather see them just run DBZ normally and see how that does before resorting to cherry picking episodes.

Not so related to that I decided to check on Adult Swim's status early in April and it looks pretty darn good

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman2/publish/Cable_65recap/Va
-va-voom-Hot-start-for-racy-Client-...

Still #3 with 18-34 in prime time and #7 with 18-49 in prime time and claiming #1 in total day for both demos as well as #3 for total day and total viewers.

Say what you will about Turner's lack of synergy but they have 3 networks in the top 10 for prime time for both 18-34 and 18-49 and 4 networks for those demos in total day. Cartoon Network is #4 with total viewers (not far behind AS) #6 with 18-34 and #10 with 18-49.

They can do better no doubt but it's surprising what they've accomplished with quite frankly very little effort compared to the early 2000s when promotion and marketing was king for Turner. It's kind of disheartening to see their laziness rewarded but they got lucky with some syndicated hits and original series that draw a crowd.

[Sketchor]

NinjaGo's season finale beat 9:30 King of the Hill by a whole point with 18-49. It may have beat the 9 pm airing by 2 points. Seriously 0.5 with 18-49 at 8 pm on a Wednesday for a serial children's action cartoon's season finale. They should really try Bleach at 9 pm on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. Maybe Monday but that puts it against Raw.

Over 3.3 million total viewers for NinjaGo and around 600,000 were adults. Just think what DC Nation, Star Wars, Ben 10 or ThunderCats could do after NinjaGo and they waste that lead in on encores of Tuesday's Level Up and probably lose more than half those viewers in the process.

Action can work better for CN and AS, they just have to give it a fighting chance to do it.

[Sketchor]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/04/12/wednesday-cable-ratin
gs-south-park-wins-night-psych-amer...



Forgot the link

[_hack-SIGN_John]

You definitely want FG as the lead for any action-comedy & FG has to air at 11P & 2 or 2:30A so that doesn't provide many slots. After FG in the ON is probably the safest.

A more ambitious schedule would be this:
FG 11P, RC 11:30-11:45P, 11:45-12:15 action-comedy

Here RC is catching the hit vs SNL opening. It has nothing to prove on Sat. Viewers channel surfing during SNL's 1st break will catch RC's back end. You promo the action-comedy during FG & the time is close enough to where those viewers are likely to stay awake to watch.

12:15-12:45 Bleach, 12:45-1A RC, 1A IY:TFA,
1:30-2:30A other anime
2:30-5A repeat of the 11P-1:30A shows FG-IY:TFA
5-6A vintage anime

As for cherry picking ep, you saw the strength on 4/1 & there was no continuity with anything going on. I think NT & the CW are cherry picking ep w DBZ Kai now. Continuity is just not that imporant any more because viewers can go to the net to watch the ep they miss on TV.

Cherry picking with anime definitely incl's ep 1. That's usually amongst the best ep for any series. From there it's about punting ep that have too much drama. Drrr is a good example. Keep all the ep that feature the guy with herculean strength.
Punt the ones that are mostly talk & feature little to no action.
During the show the distributor gets a few secs here & there of promo time so fans know where to go on the net to watch the show in it's entirety.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Agree. They don't use their lead shows effectively enough. TNT's ratings are down this yr, & TBS ratings strength is concentrated into 2 shows: FG & BBT. That's not unlike [as] with AD & FG. While these 3 shows are certainly getting the job done, there is clearly less variety now on both.

My guess is that Turner is thinking more about how to get in on the Reality success of Swamp People, Army Wives, Pawn Stars, Storage Wars, etc. than how action might work better in PT.

I think those are SD ratings & Sketch made a point a while ago that during these turbulent economic times adults are going out less which means they are probably going to bed earlier. That might help explain the large drop offs were seeing past 12:30A now on most nights. When you consider 7D ratings which are gaining in importance, drama of any genre usually trounces comedy. Drama's avg between a 30-40% bump in delayed viewings. Comedy is about 1/2 that. Keep that in mind when looking at the #### #'s since those are SD.

[Sketchor]

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_hack-SIGN_John wrote:
You definitely want FG as the lead for any action-comedy & FG has to air at 11P & 2 or 2:30A so that doesn't provide many slots. After FG in the ON is probably the safest.

A more ambitious schedule would be this:
FG 11P, RC 11:30-11:45P, 11:45-12:15 action-comedy

Here RC is catching the hit vs SNL opening. It has nothing to prove on Sat. Viewers channel surfing during SNL's 1st break will catch RC's back end. You promo the action-comedy during FG & the time is close enough to where those viewers are likely to stay awake to watch.

12:15-12:45 Bleach, 12:45-1A RC, 1A IY:TFA,
1:30-2:30A other anime
2:30-5A repeat of the 11P-1:30A shows FG-IY:TFA
5-6A vintage anime

As for cherry picking ep, you saw the strength on 4/1 & there was no continuity with anything going on. I think NT & the CW are cherry picking ep w DBZ Kai now. Continuity is just not that imporant any more because viewers can go to the net to watch the ep they miss on TV.

Cherry picking with anime definitely incl's ep 1. That's usually amongst the best ep for any series. From there it's about punting ep that have too much drama. Drrr is a good example. Keep all the ep that feature the guy with herculean strength.
Punt the ones that are mostly talk & feature little to no action.
During the show the distributor gets a few secs here & there of promo time so fans know where to go on the net to watch the show in it's entirety.

---

Ambitious... Yes it is certainly that.

Honestly I don't think they need an anime comedy as they have plenty of their own and only really need RC and Family Guy. I wonder how an RC sandwhich with FG in the middle would do though. Probably really outstanding.

There actually is not a free legal way to watch every dub episode of the likes of DBZ, One Piece and Naruto Shippuden and AS is the only legal way to watch dubbed Durarara except for buying the expensive DVD sets online or at conventions. Likewise you don't get free episodes of dubbed InuYasha or Kekkaishi. So if you cherry pick dub episodes you leave viewers with a dilema. Buy the dub now or pirate it. Guess which one is more likely when you have to go through more trouble to buy them?

DBZ was a unique situation because Kai aired in it's entirety on Nicktoons and many of the people tuning in were from the generation that watched DBZ on Toonami. CW runs things in order and Nicktoons has a few runs that also go in order but are at different episodes. Though DBZ has also always been easy to enjoy without context. InuYasha would work like that and maybe Bleach or Kekkaishi but if you pulled that with FMA Brotherhood people would feel horribly lost just as anyone already does when they try watching from a random start point.

It greatly depends on the show in regards to skipping chunks of episodes. The more continuity heavy they are the worse that turns out. But there is no harm in playing just the first episode to get a response.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Here's the thing. I estimate at least 1/2 the viewers of anime on [as] are die-hards. The #'s over the yrs support that. They are going to watch no matter what & they are the ones most likely to support the industry with sales not only on the anime side but also the manga side. So at least 1/2 the viewers don't have a much dependancy on continuity then.

About 1/4 of the viewers are casual viewers familiar with the stories through the manga & the last 1/4 are casual without manga experience. So really, just 1/4 of the viewers then may turn away because of a lack of continuity.

It goes w/out saying that the distributors have to make the ep available free on-line if they are going to do that for shot series like Drrr. That wasn't done & as I pointed out weeks ago you they didn't even have a working buy link at the anime site. Someone definitely dropped the ball there.

[as] does need an anime comedy for 2 reasons:

1) Boon, RC, & FG are the only series that have demonstrated staying power on Sat's. They are already in the block if you assume a Boon-FG or FG-Boon hr from 10:30-11:30P.

2) anime comedies are a large part of the anime culture & have been ignored by [as] to date. They are not big fans of shounen's like Bleach because they are more interested in harem-style rom-com's that [as] doesn't feature in their original programming. By adding a popular anime comedy to [as] you create a buzz around that social community. [as] has nothing in their original programming that comes close to harem-style rom-com's.

10:30 Boon, 11 FG, 11:30 RC, 11:45 anime comedy, 12:15 Bleach, 12:45 RC, 1A IY:TFA
- Boon, FG, RC is already being cherry picked, & most anime comedies are short series to where it doesn't make much sense to do it for a 1st run.

1:30-2:30A : Showcase hour. This is where the anime distributors get to showcase titles they aim to push sales for. Anything goes here: Sailor Moon, Outlaw Star, Trigun, Tenchi, One Piece, Sgt Frog, Gundam, Robotech.
Trigun's a good example because of it's recent movie. The series with many vol's are obvious candidates for cherry picking. There's no reason to air every ep of them. With something short like Trigun, I think you plan to air all of the ep but if it starts to drop off then cherry pick it. They can pre-empt as early as 12:45 to air an OVA or movie for an event night.

2:30-5A repeat of 11-1:30A. On an event night, they can fill the last 45 or 30m w VB & a 15 min show.

5A-6A: vintage anime. Any anime title in the history of anime could appear here.

The entire block then strengthens [as] ties to the anime community & provides ample opportunity for anime distributors to showcase titles for sales.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

ANN's take on [as] Toonami event and ANN's top anime lists With respect to the T10 most popular CN/[as] has shown all but Haruhi Suzumiya & Elfen Lied. The subject of EL has been brought up here many times. Regardless it should remain on [as] list of possibilities & if you built an RC sandwich around it there shouldn't be an S&P issues. Haruhi has all but been ignored in this thread & that is my point. Those fans might like Bleach & IY too but w/out Haruhi you won't draw their attention.

Other anime comedies on that list are: Full Metal Panic, Fruits Basket, Chobits, Azumanga, Love Hina, Toradora!, NHK, School Rumble, Lucky Star, Ah My Goddess, Please Teacher, Familiar of Zero, Excel, Genshiken, Bamboo Blade, & at least twice as many more.

Slice of life anime comedies are like nothing [as] has today & they are such a big part of the fan base, that they fill about 1/3rd of the hr's on Funimation Channel, & about 1/2 the VOD offerings from TAN & Funi. It makes more sense now with CN's adult success in AT & Gumball.

[Dark_Lord_Khrima]

AS will still never air Elfen Lied because of content issues no matter how many times it gets brought up. And honestly, the type of stuff in Elfen Lied is way worse than anything in RC. That's one of the few shows where I can say, "Yeah, that is probably better off not airing on AS for content reasons". A naked girl gruesomely slaughtering everyone in her path is not something that will ever be seen on AS.

[Sketchor]

So that's the angle.

Well in that case the comedy I would most recommend for Adult Swim is Genshiken. It's about college students, a geeky club and the romance of an otaku with a girl who is just getting to understand fandom. I dare say it's the closest anime equivalent to The Big Bang Theory. Welcome NHK which you mentioned could also fit that geeky romance bill.

Weren't you the one who said viewers want cries least of all? Most Japanese romance comedies include a lot of cries.

I was moved by Clannad and it can be pretty funny but I'd never suggest it for AS.

It has no cries but I cannot freak'n believe you suggested Lucky Star.

Otaku taste in comedy is not particularly reflective of what western audiences will tune in for. Haruhi kind of bridges the gap but many of those slice of life series lack compatibility with American tastes.

Here's a quirky short form comedy that does surprising well here: Hetallia. Perhaps a bit too cutesy for AS in look the dialogue is a riot and the sales speak for themselves. Hetallia fans represent a rather large precentage of cosplayers today. I saw quite a lot at a convention last weekend, even more than the year before. Not nearly as many Bleach cosplayers this year, I think I saw more One Piece cosplayers and Naruto seems to have decreased in cosplay quite a bit as well in my neck of the woods.

Cultural humor is pretty popular for AS comedies so Hetallia could potentially do very well.

And to back up the opinion, Elfen Lied far exceeds the most gruesome RC scene. Kim even said she tried to make it work but S&P were going to hack it to ribbons.

I also feel you are dismissing the value of being able to watch a show from start to finish on your TV without having to buy anything else or go on the internet to fill in gaps of information. That's what people expect of a regular TV broadcast. Showcases are fine for plugging shows to sell but for regular broadcasts just run them in order and promote any time slot changes and most already compatible shows will do fine even at dull points. Afterall people like shows for different reasons and sometimes they want to see the fluff with the substance. It's all part of the show. So I don't like cherry picking and that is where we will just agree to disagree.

[Sketchor]

Almost forgot Full Metal Panic. That is still a very good show for Adult Swim and by now it should be plenty cheap to pick up all 3 series. That's the ideal bridge into romance comedy with good action and lots of laughs.

ANN's Answer Man is very possitive about Toonami on Adult Swim as anyone should be. But I've seen the forum goers at ANN spout nonsense such as "Toonami only mattered before the internet", "only young kids can't find anime other ways" and "television is dead" but we already know that one night brought in more business for anime sales on Amazon just from looking at the rise in sales those featured anime had. Which sadly illustrates that a decent chunk of anime fandom does not care about introducing new people to the fandom but the very survival of the industry depends on growing the consumer base and getting more fans who will buy anime.

Growing anime fandom is not really Adult Swim's burden to bare but I sure do appreciate that they do it despite that. More people should show their appreciation for that IMO.

[Jeebus201]

http://boards.adultswim.com/t5/General-Adult-Swim-Discussion/An-o
pen-Challenge/m-p/33793988/highligh...

We will never get anything good.

[Sketchor]

See here's the funny thing about that post. It's rather out of date.

Now there are comedies that lose to anime. Go figure. Shows how far original comedy has sunk in recent years. Which is really too bad because I like quite a few of those comedies that don't do particularly well.

[Jeebus201]

The ratings statements are out of date.

The shows they will get vs the ones they will not are still accurate.

Hence, we will never get anything good.

[Sketchor]

Live action on Saturday is doing about as bad or worse than it did on Sunday prime time against FOX

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.com/2012/04/saturday-april-7-2012-c
able-finals-big.html?utm_source=fee...

0.34 for Family Guy with 18-49 946,000 viewers and that's less than out of the blue Dragon Ball Z on 4/1 (the week before was 0.46)

0.29 for Childrens with 18-49 (the week before got 0.19)

0.28 for Loiter Squad with 18-49 (the week before got 0.18)

0.22 for NTSF with 18-49 (it was not listed the week before)

The winner?

Actually King of the Hill with 0.43 at 9PM (the week before got 0.22)

Brule's encore was not listed and I'm guessing it only got around 0.15 or something.

The first Bay Transformers movie got 0.54 with 18-49 and 1,901,000 and that's the average of about 2 hours and 45 minutes 

Johnny Test after the movie got 0.23 with 18-49 which isn't surprising and Transformers was surely the reason why King of the Hill beat Family Guy that night.

It makes you wonder how well an action show would have done following Transformers. It's all but assured anything with action would have done better than KotH in that slot.

That's the second bad week for Family Guy in a row and the live action encores and reruns are not panning out. Maybe just maybe the first two hours are within Toonami's reach. I mean even reruns of InuYasha can probably get at least 0.3 at 9PM, so why really... why not try it? Family Guy will do better at 11PM anyway.

[Jeebus201]

I hate to drop this piece of divisiveness to, but I might as well.

For all the money WS invests into Tim and Eric and its spinoffs (generous advertising, ludicrous commitments, specials) they really don't do that well ratings-wise do they? Granted, they're probably doing something right to justify such a commitment, but still...

As for Saturdays, switching out high rated reruns for lower rated ones was bound to be detrimental. I hope the comedy ratings shoot up soon but I doubt it.

[Sketchor]

I thought we already settled on Tim and Eric stuff getting made because they have celebrity friends and hollywood likes them. Pretty sure that was it.

[Jeebus201]

Which is fine if you want to do specials, but now the friends of their friends?

It feels like Adult Swim is hanging out with this jerk no one really likes just because he knows this really hot girl.

Back on topic, Brule is not the answer to Saturday ratings.

[ZorakFan3271]

Well, during it's weekday run recently, it got around a 0.9 which is pretty good ratings. So I would say Tim and Eric had the ratings/budget/fanbase to justify their five seasons. 

[KouTheMad]

Did it really?

I have a hard time believing that