General Adult Swim Discussion

[Jeebus201]

Of course by that same token, one could infer that possibly removing two hours of anime in a month, even if just an encore presentation of the stuff, is proof Durarara did below what was expected of it.

[Sketchor]

I think that would have more to do with how ho hum the 2AM-4AM anime have been doing for a while now.

But as it stands just 1 night will bring back the encore block but how well that does could determine the fate of the 2AM-4AM auxilarly anime st.ash.

Durarara only slipped below 0.4 with 18-49 a few times and also managed 0.5 a few times so overall it kept it's 0.4 and was pretty successful for a niche show. Now it's over and they must not expect much from the rerun ratings if they wont even rerun it in the same slot for a while until their next anime comes along.

Regardless of the outcome I'm glad they aired it and I enjoyed watching it and that's really all that matters to me regarding DRR. I would implore them to follow it up with something considerably less monologue heavy becauase one talky show is enough for a while.

[Sketchor]

Here's some ratings

Saturday, December 17, 2011

• 588,000 Family Guy
• 537,000 Boondocks 11:00pm
• 513,000 Boondocks 11:30pm

Sunday December 18, 2011

• 735,000 Family Guy 10:30pm
• 712,000 Robot Chicken 11:30pm
• 559,000 Squidbillies 11:45pm

Not very good Sunday.

Saturday, you're alright.

And because I just saw it on Bump Worthy

The Anime Venn Diagram!

http://www.bumpworthy.com/bumps/4402

That venn diagram really does sum things up nicely.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all! It's been a while but I see a disturbing trend emerging.

CN's Aug highlights
CN's 2011 Highlights
Top 11, 2011 for Dis, Nick, CN
Dis XD 2011 Highlights

2011 CN can be summed up as owning Mon night (7-9PM) in K6-11, but marginal gains TD. Competitively the gap between CN & both Nick & Dis has greatly widened & the gap between CN & Dis XD has shrank. Dis XD looks to be reluctantly dismissing it's animated programming hrs for more live-action sitcoms. Nicktoons is adding live-action sitcoms in 2012 though right now it looks completely devoted to DBZ. Then there's this:
Dis XD has closed to w/in 0.2 of CN Sat morning.

What I find most disturbing is that even after paying $4B for Marvel Ent, Disney can't even commit to that genre of action on Disney XD. So the trend is obvious & it can best be summed up by Fionna & Cake. Kids programming is mostly about girls right now & it looks like the clock is counting down before that becomes the direction at CN as well.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

[as] K2-11-14 I'm not sure yet what it means, but T9-14 PT for [as] is stronger than T9-14 TD for CN. [as] PT is KotH & ADad.
[as] Dec 4, 2011 Any concern for [as] weakening is unfounded. [as] is beating NAN in HH PT, TD, & beating MTV in 18-34 PT. [as] is beating #2 ESPN in 18-34 TD by well over 100K. It's about 1/3rd of ESPN's avg viewers. FG did nearly as well as the season finale of SoA on FX. The race is a lot tighter between [as] & ESPN for the 18-49 TD crown, but [as] has left NAN in it's dust. It's now a T10 18-49 PT cable network. It's not yet a T10 25-54 PT network, but it's beating TNT in TD in that demo & it's closing in on TBS. Needless to say, as [as] skews older it's never been stronger.

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Great site for show ratings DBZ Kai PT Weekday NickT 0.622, Naruto Ship LN Sat 0.342. That was the last rating for Naruto S on DXD. Why did they cancel it? That 0.342 was as good as their new show Fort Boyard. Again, the disturbing trend emerges like The Dark. DBZ Kai ratings on NT destroy all other ratings on the network. The other new ep shows (Iron Man, Voltron, & Speed Racer) draw 1/4 of what DBZ Kai does. This bodes well for GT even though it's not as good.

[ALchemist81]

I have a theory that when Disney XD introduces a new wave of animated action programming sometime in 2012 including Tron: Evolution and a few other shows. At that time they might re-introduce Avengers and Naruto: Shippuden, I suppose.

However, it also seems they might be dropping X-Men: Evolution.  Tonight at 3:30 was the last time it airs.  It's getting replaced by "Rated A For Awesome" in 2012.  Gargoyles remains on the schedule at 4 AM.

Oh, and it seems CN might be getting rid of ThunderCats, at least for the short term.  Apparently the reruns of Season 1A haven't been doing them any favors, so I'm thinking they might just back up and punt and air Season 1B once it's known when Season 2A is gonna begin.  Generator Rex takes over 8:30 starting this week.  But as for me, I'll be watching the Cotton Bowl.

[Sketchor]

Welcome back John, it's been a while. I hope you had a pleasant holiday with your family.

And now down to business.

I think CN isn't counted in Prime Time on Cynopsis or Media Life Magazine because they count 8PM-11PM as PT and not even 7PM as I recall. CN prime time can actually do better with 18-49 than Adult Swim depending on the show though it doesn't surprise me in the least if American Dad at 10PM beats CN's shows with 9-14 because teenagers love them some FOX comedy.

Nick and More is indeed a good site for ratings. I happen to write reviews for them under my real name Andrew T. Hingson. The other very useful website for premiere ratings and Adult Swim's total viewer ratings is http://www.thevoiceoftv.com

Naruto Shippuden has slipped big time since the moved to 11PM on Saturdays but that's not surprising. They've been treating that show like crap for a while now but this shows some much lower ratings in September. http://www.nickandmore.com/2011/09/29/cable-ratings-september-5-1
1-2011/ Also keep in mind these are the total ratings you're seeing for both that week and the week you talked about and chances are the 2-11, 6-11 and 9-14 for Naruto was quite a bit lower than Fort Bouyard but either way the ratings I linked to are still very low. A stark contrast to what DBZ Kai is pulling in on Nicktoons. Action shows on Cartoon Network are also not pulling in anywhere near the ratings of the comedies on Cartoon Network. (though the 18-49 ratings for Star Wars and ThunderCats can beat King of the Hill which airs after them). 

[Sketchor]

Cartoon Network in recent months has actually closed the gap with Nickelodeon in total day ratings for 6-11 and 9-14 on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday some weeks but the gap is still quite large on weekends though all 3 networks do better on the weekends. Nick has actually seen some peculiar ratings drops lately, enough that they would claim the Nielsen numbers were not accurate. Nick's loss has been Disney and CN's gain.

Here's some days where CN bested Nick with 6-11, 9-14 or both (taken from Cynopsis kids)

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Monday, December 5, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11 864; K6-11 480; TWEENS 9-14 367
NICKELODEON:          K2-11 807; K6-11 287; TWEENS 9-14 200
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 482; K6-11 341; TWEENS 9-14 276 (nice lead with 6-11 and 9-14 that day)
DISNEY XD:               K2-11 159; K6-11 123; TWEENS 9-14 107
NICKTOONS:              K2-11   77; K6-11   55; TWEENS 9-14   49

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON:         K2-11 877; K6-11 345; TWEENS 9-14 196
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11 784; K6-11 429; TWEENS 9-14 330
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 442; K6-11 262; TWEENS 9-14 207
DISNEY XD:               K2-11 182; K6-11 129; TWEENS 9-14 108
NICKTOONS:              K2-11   82; K6-11   54; TWEENS 9-14   31

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Thursday, December 8, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11 971; K6-11 531; TWEENS 9-14 391
NICKELODEON:          K2-11 834; K6-11 289; TWEENS 9-14 177
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 472; K6-11 293; TWEENS 9-14 248 (holy cow look at that lead with 9-14)
DISNEY XD:               K2-11 149; K6-11 103; TWEENS 9-14   93
NICKTOONS:              K2-11   72; K6-11   50; TWEENS 9-14   37

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON:         K2-11 946; K6-11 311; TWEENS 9-14 196
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11 805; K6-11 534; TWEENS 9-14 400
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 412; K6-11 265; TWEENS 9-14 216
DISNEY XD:               K2-11 155; K6-11 113; TWEENS 9-14 107
NICKTOONS:              K2-11   66; K6-11   43; TWEENS 9-14   44
Source: MTVN Research from Nielsen Media Research Data

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Wednesday, December 14, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON:         K2-11 1001; K6-11 351; TWEENS 9-14 214
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11   781; K6-11 473; TWEENS 9-14 331
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11   426; K6-11 273; TWEENS 9-14 256
DISNEY XD:               K2-11   152; K6-11 100; TWEENS 9-14   90
NICKTOONS:              K2-11    60; K6-11   40; TWEENS 9-14   42

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Tuesday, December 21, 2011, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
DISNEY CHANNEL:     K2-11 1113; K6-11 729; TWEENS 9-14 597
NICKELODEON:          K2-11   972; K6-11 403; TWEENS 9-14 291
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11   663; K6-11 392; TWEENS 9-14 310
DISNEY XD:               K2-11   180; K6-11 144; TWEENS 9-14 119
NICKTOONS:              K2-11   110; K6-11   73; TWEENS 9-14   72

It's not surprising to see Cartoon Network spread premieres to Tuesday and Wednesday in January. Gumball premieres move to Tuesday at 7:30, Level Up premieres at 8PM followed by The Looney Tunes Show at 8:30PM. Meanwhile on Wednesday the Lego Ninjago series that has proven successful on both prime time and Saturday mornings premieres at 8PM following new Johnny Test at 7:30PM. Of course Monday is still home to premieres of Adventure Time (now at 7:30PM), Regular Show (now at 8PM) and MAD. It would seem they gave up on trying to pack an hour with 4 quarter hour shows and have decided to just play reruns of Adventure Time, Regular Show and MAD after their premieres doing a segment premiere in a half hour slot like they've been doing with Johnny Test and Gumball for a while.

Cartoon Network isn't doing themselves any favors keeping action premieres on Friday, they should really move those to Thursday and just air movies or reruns on Friday against Nick and Disney's big premieres but they seem content to allow action to be the sacrificial lamb to both Friday comedy premieres and Saturday morning comedy premieres from their competitors, which is why they generally lose with ever demographic at those times except maybe boys 6-11 and boys 9-14.

[Sketchor]

---

ALchemist81 wrote:

I have a theory that when Disney XD introduces a new wave of animated action programming sometime in 2012 including Tron: Evolution and a few other shows. At that time they might re-introduce Avengers and Naruto: Shippuden, I suppose.

However, it also seems they might be dropping X-Men: Evolution.  Tonight at 3:30 was the last time it airs.  It's getting replaced by "Rated A For Awesome" in 2012.  Gargoyles remains on the schedule at 4 AM.

Oh, and it seems CN might be getting rid of ThunderCats, at least for the short term.  Apparently the reruns of Season 1A haven't been doing them any favors, so I'm thinking they might just back up and punt and air Season 1B once it's known when Season 2A is gonna begin.  Generator Rex takes over 8:30 starting this week.  But as for me, I'll be watching the Cotton Bowl.

---

Avengers will be back around the time the movie hits theaters. Tron: Uprising, Motor City (from some of the fine folks who gave us Megas XLR) and Ultimate Spider-Man should help with the lack of action in 2012 but with the way DXD treated Avengers I'm very concerned about those show's longevity on the network.

ThunderCats and Young Justice are both leaving the CN schedule without rerunning their later part of their current episode batches and that frusrates me greatly because the first week they're just being dumped for Star Wars reruns and the weeks after that Adventure Time is at 7PM and Ninjago gets encores at 7:30PM. Even more surprising, Ben 10 will move premieres to 9AM on Saturday mornings. CN's action golden boy getting premieres on Saturday mornings instead of prime time when Ninjago will have 2 prime time slots. That kind of grinds my gears.

On the action front other than Ninjago and the next Ben 10 series, Cartoon Network's only addition in 2012 that's already confirmed in Green Lantern with the DC Nation block. Bakugan is coming to and end finally with Redakai on tap to take up the reigns already but unless CN announces something else at their upfront they might have even less action shows airing this year and that a stark contrast to the days of old. You know the days when Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon and Teen Titans were the top rated shows on Cartoon Network. It seems this current generation of kids just aren't as interested in action animation as previous generations were but I think a lot of that has to do with the various networks weening them off action animation in recent years.

[ALchemist81]

Does Ninjago on Wednesday mean they're moving some of their primetime action around to other days of the week? It would seem that might be the case, to the detriment of Batman: BATB, Young Justice, and of course, ThunderCats. Starting January 6, the Friday action block is truncated to only 2 hours. Whether it will always be Clone Wars reruns in the first hour or if other action shows will eventually come back remains to be seen. A new Clone Wars follows at 8, and new Generator Rex closes off the block at 8:30. I guess G. Rex makes a better transition to KOTH than ThunderCats.

[ALchemist81]

---

Sketchor wrote:

---

ALchemist81 wrote:

I have a theory that when Disney XD introduces a new wave of animated action programming sometime in 2012 including Tron: Evolution and a few other shows. At that time they might re-introduce Avengers and Naruto: Shippuden, I suppose.

However, it also seems they might be dropping X-Men: Evolution.  Tonight at 3:30 was the last time it airs.  It's getting replaced by "Rated A For Awesome" in 2012.  Gargoyles remains on the schedule at 4 AM.

Oh, and it seems CN might be getting rid of ThunderCats, at least for the short term.  Apparently the reruns of Season 1A haven't been doing them any favors, so I'm thinking they might just back up and punt and air Season 1B once it's known when Season 2A is gonna begin.  Generator Rex takes over 8:30 starting this week.  But as for me, I'll be watching the Cotton Bowl.

---

Avengers will be back around the time the movie hits theaters. Tron: Uprising, Motor City (from some of the fine folks who gave us Megas XLR) and Ultimate Spider-Man should help with the lack of action in 2012 but with the way DXD treated Avengers I'm very concerned about those show's longevity on the network.

ThunderCats and Young Justice are both leaving the CN schedule without rerunning their later part of their current episode batches and that frusrates me greatly because the first week they're just being dumped for Star Wars reruns and the weeks after that Adventure Time is at 7PM and Ninjago gets encores at 7:30PM. Even more surprising, Ben 10 will move premieres to 9AM on Saturday mornings. CN's action golden boy getting premieres on Saturday mornings instead of prime time when Ninjago will have 2 prime time slots. That kind of grinds my gears.

On the action front other than Ninjago and the next Ben 10 series, Cartoon Network's only addition in 2012 that's already confirmed in Green Lantern with the DC Nation block. Bakugan is coming to and end finally with Redakai on tap to take up the reigns already but unless CN announces something else at their upfront they might have even less action shows airing this year and that a stark contrast to the days of old. You know the days when Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon and Teen Titans were the top rated shows on Cartoon Network. It seems this current generation of kids just aren't as interested in action animation as previous generations were but I think a lot of that has to do with the various networks weening them off action animation in recent years.

---

Wait...WHAT?!  You mean the action block disappears COMPLETELY on Friday, January 13th save for Ninjago?  Wait, you mean that 7:30 Ninjago is the "transition" show from crappy kiddie comedy to decent kiddie action in Clone Wars at 8 and G. Rex at 8:30?  Maybe when Clone Wars and G. Rex run out of new episodes they'll bring back YJ and ThunderCats in those same timeslots, still using the ridiculous popularity of Ninjago to lead in at 7:30...

But we can learn one thing from the new CN schedule: they're putting no stock whatsoever in ThunderCats reruns, which means AS isn't likely to follow suit and try them as a "transition" show except maybe at 4:30 AM on Saturdays if Final Act pushes InuYasha encores earlier.

But wait--I'm getting ahead of myself.  Where did you find the January 13th schedule anyway?

[Sketchor]

It's compiled by looking at each show's airings on the backdoor schedule, someone at ToonZone saw that Adventure Time and NinjaGo will be airing that Friday at 7PM and 7:30PM. That may not last but Ben 10 will be moving premieres to 9AM on Saturdays in about a month (TZ's staff gets advanced premiere schedule information every month)

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Yes, 8-11PM EST is the PT block & it seems inevitable that CN will give up the 8PM hr when [as] picks up The Simpson's. [as] will just have to agree not to air the Simpsons when FOX does. If you look at my most recent [as] ratings post adding and project the boost Bart & Homer will give [as] it easily becomes a Top 5 PT cable network across ALL aduilt demo's then. You can even make the argument that it can become Top 3 in that status if you assume some Hollywood blockbuster movie nights. The extra hr will give [as] that opportunity.

The Simpson's also satisfy the desire of the FCC for major networks to promote the 8PM EST hr as a Family friendly hour. This will become more important to [as] as it gains stature. More importantly though, The Simpson's give [as] an excellent 8PM lead to promote their own productions that will air at 12A EST as well as DVD & merch sales for those shows. [as] really hasn't fired up the merchandising as much as they could.

[as] will likely make 8-10/11P EST Fri-Sun movie nights. This will eliminate any conflict with Fox then. CN will focus on developing more shows like Adv Time, Reg Show, MAD, & Gumball. These edgy PG comedy driven shows have found a nice niche. They won't abandon action entirely but it will be more spread out then it is now & positioned strictly for the last hr (7PM). It goes w/out saying the violence will rate PG at least. TWX won't mind CN losing ground to Nick & Dis as long as it maintains it's distance from DXD & NT. Afterall, [as] PT will be kicking NAN's teeth in & making dents in Dis PT especially on Fri night's. Not only will they be making dents but there's a strong likelihood that tamer promotional spots could generate a "coolness" factor about [as] PT that spreads across K/T9-17 social circles. That's important for [as] to maintain it's dominance over 18-24 & 18-34 demo's.

Now before you start crying over the exit of CN from PT hrs, consider the bigger picture. Selling [as] as a Top 5/Top 3 cable network across all adult demo's means TWX can FORCE Comcast & other operators to pick up Boomerang. Boomerang will get a makeover then to compete with NT & DXD. What's the best way then to do? A Toonami Revival! A Toonami revival is perfect for Boomerang's focus on vintage animated programming & with availablity similar to DXD & NT it will be positioned to kick butt. I'm sure the subject's come up already in the wake of DBZ Kai's success on NT. This will be very important to ACTN fans of [as]. With Boomerang making use of Toonami's brand strength, anime is sure to find a place there. If those shows succeed [as] will be more likely to keep ACTN alive even after Bleach ends.

Lastly, don't be surprised if [as] shows up on a local content station near you. Operators such as Comcast are being hard pressed to raise rates right now which means new contracts will likely end exclusitivity. When that happens a minor local station in your area might decide to pick up [as] PT for it's nightly block similar to the relationship CW holds with affiliates now.

[Sketchor]

Adult Swim should get it's own channel before taking 8PM away from Cartoon Network.

The Simpsons is the kind of show they could air at any given time and in turn they could use it as a key player in making a 24/7 network. FOX reps were pondering the concept of a Simpsons channel. A channel dedicated to airing The SImpsons at all hours of the day. Why waste it with just an hour slot that would get encored when there's 500+ episodes? At that point Adult Swim could barely dedicate any of their time to home grown properties (much less anime) without expanding to a channel where they could theoretically run the FOX shows earlier in the day (as well as some airings later at night) leaving the overnight hours to their original series which can't air before 10PM.

Even if Turner got Adult Swim into the top 3-5 for prime time on cable in all adult demos they can't force Comcast to pick up Boomerang. Not even if they got TBS and Adult Swim in the top 3-5. They can't afford to leave Comcast and wouldn't dare for something as low priority to them as Boomerang.

Revitalization of Boomerang might be enough to get them interested depending on what Turner does with it but almost anything is more productive than the auto-pilot status they have it on now.

[rumbatubbies-ok]

Is Boomerang really a key component to Turner's success in the field of television providers?

Last I knew, Boomerang was still using the same bumps from when it was on Cartoon Network.

[Sketchor]

I could see Turner try to use Toonami as their response to The 90's Are All That on Teen Nick but the licenses that made Toonami so great have long since expired. They'd even have to re-acquire the likes of Justice League and other DC shows pre-Teen Titans because Warner is free to sell those rights to anyone who wants them and The Hub got Batman Beyond and Batman: The Animated Series. The likes of The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, Samurai Jack, Megas XLR and Teen Titans makes for a solid action block but it can't be sustained for more than a few months.

More importantly the business model that helped get anime on Toonami (one which Toonami pretty much perfected)  has all but died out. Dragon Ball is the only franchise other than toyetic shows such as Pokemon and Beyblade that is getting toned down for children at the moment. Naruto Shippuden is still in DXD's hands but it may very well never air on US television again (especially if Turner doesn't see fit to pick it up when DXD cuts it loose). Kids don't mind edits and they'll certainly watch edited anime but there are costs to editing those shows to be suitable for children here and next to nobody is willing to do that work for a network. Apparently even FUNimation got Ocean Studios and then 4Kids to censor DBZ Kai for the Nicktoons and Toonzai broadcasts respectively. Dragon Ball GT looks to be the exact same cut that aired on Toonami as were the DBZ movies that previously aired on Toonami.

The days of targeting shows such as Outlaw Star, Tenchi and Gundam to children are long since gone. Especially because current anime distributors say their biggest market today is 18-24 year old males and Hulu suits those viewers just fine. The anime industry has largely refocused it's effort on digitial distribution and digital distribution is the one way I could feasibly see Turner reviving Toonami. A Toonami branded action animation streaming service with exclusive dubbed streams and fan favorite action animation would be the cheapest and most effective way to revive Toonami.

I'm all for a Toonami revival on Boomerang. It could theoretically draw some more traffic to the channel but I don't think they'll ever do it, whether they should or not.

[Sketchor]

The bigger picture is CN forfeiting 8PM to Adult Swim is not likely to help Boomerang get in to any more homes and it will force CN to premiere shows outside of actual prime time which can work but with kids getting home late from after school sports and clubs running premieres before 7PM could hurt their ratings significantly.

With Nick losing some days to Cartoon Network in 6-11, 9-14 or both and commonly losing to them with boys ratings in general (Disney also loses to them with boys) now is not the time for CN to scale back further. Now is the time to stake their claim in prime time long term.

I don't even want to think about the possiblity of them giving up on 8PM and handing it off to Adult Swim. Not now. Not when they've so vastly improved in quality and ratings.

I like those various FOX shows as much or maybe more than the next guy but to see them eat up time that could be dedicated to fresh content frankly sickens me. Right now CN's top rated prime time shows can best King of the Hill and most of Adult Swim's original series in both total viewers and even adults 18-49. So nothing short of The Simpsons woudl be enough to make that move even worth while and if they got The Simpsons they really might as well make an Adult Swim channel and just maintain 9PM/10PM-6AM block on Cartoon Network until more providers pick it up. Maybe retiring King of the Hill to just 5AM (it actually tends to do better there than 9PM) letting The Simpsons have 9PM where it's likely to do better than if it were at 8PM.

And for the record, Turner wont even be able to get The Simpsons until 2014 when the final season is projected to end due to syndication contracts preventing FOX from selling the reruns to any cable network.

As far back as I can remember you've been pushing for more Adult Swim expansion John. I guess some things never change but Adult Swim needs to prove even 9PM is worth their while before contemplating a hostile takeover of 8PM as well.

However, having Friday, Saturday and Sunday prime time be movie nights is something I can entirely get behind. As it stands King of the HIll doesn't do so well against Smackdown on Friday and they nothing they air at 9PM on Sunday is going to stand a chance against new or recently rerun Family Guy on FOX. Though you're probably going to see a fair share of people opposed to AS airing live-action movies. It's hard to say how well that might work out for them but it's got to do better than 9PM is doing on weekends thus far (though American Dad does plenty well at 10PM on Friday).

[akihironihongo]

"...when the final season is projected to end..."

Fox never said that The Simpsons would end at season 25. While there has been a heavy debate over the viability, along with decisions and statements by Fox, that make the future of The Simpsons questionable, there is no clear indication that The Simpsons will get cancelled. Yes Fox needs the show to be cancelled before they can make a channel out of the show, and yes they did threaten to cancel the show if the voice actors didn't take a 40% pay cut due to monetary issues, but they still seem to want the show to continue. After all, weeks after the threat of cancellation, they renewed the show for two more seasons. Also, The Simpsons, while having lower ratings than earlier years, still has a very stable average for target demographics.

All in all, Fox has made the issue of The Simpsons's future nothing but a big question.

And I'm not sure, but I would think Fox wouldn't want The Simpsons to be syndicated outside of The Simpsons channel. I mean, they don't get any money from syndication, which is one of the reasons they're losing so much money from the show (I think the number was $20,000 a year, but i may have to check my sources on that). The Simpsons Channel would get them money through advertising, but syndication of the show is what's keeping the channel from existing.While syndication on Adult Swim would likely bring in fairly high ratings, I'm not sure it would happen.

[ALchemist81]

Back to the subject of ratings, I thought we might see the 18th-23rd of December (probably not the 24th or 25th but I really am curious as to how well the Bleach marathon might have done), but so far, nothing. I believe you said one time they don't even bother with ratings on Christmas, sketch. But what about New Year's? Maybe we will see how well the NYE Bleach Marathon did one of these days...

Keep checking here: http://thevoiceoftv.com/?s=Adult+Swim

[_hack-SIGN_John]

Now: Nick hrs: Nick M-R 7AM-8PM EST, F 7-9P, Sa 6-10P, Su 6-8P. CN M-Su 6A-9P If Turner can be counted on for anything, it's following Nick/NAN's footsteps.
Turner likes CN having the jump on Nick for mornings so I see them retaining 6A. But CN seems destined to lose 8PM M-R. Turher is probably re-thinking CN PT for weekends though, so I see CN retaining the 8pm hr on Fri & gaining the 9pm hr on Sat, especially since [as] 9pm Sat hr seems more like filler than anything else right now. That should be enough PT for [as] to make a serious run at top 3/top 5 PT status across all adult demo's.

You're wrong about Comcast. They are losing subscribers right now so they aren't in any position to lose major networks. If Turner says you pay X for CN/[as] if you pick up Boomerang, & Y if you don't, Comcast is sure to choose X. They can't afford to lose CN/[as]. The main threat is the internet. Sony is now selling HD TV's with WiFi & cellular Internet service & Apple TV is coming this year. Many of these homes are opting to go OTA & Internet & dropping their traditional pay tv service. I myself am considering this as well when shopping for these Internet TV's. So I have no doubt that Turner will re-position Boomerang to compete better vs NickT & DXD.

Forget about Turner spinning off [as] as it's own channel. That won't happen until NAN is on it's own, & I don't see that happening any time soon. It's a lot harder to do than you think & it's expensive to do so. As strong as [as] is it doesn't compare HH wise with Nick & when considering availability & expansion operators care a LOT more about HH reach than any age demographic. This is why the hugely popular Nick shares space with NAN. Likewise forget about FOX starting up the Simpson's Channel. They are more likely to bring add the Simpson's to FX & beef up FX's TD #'s.

The titles you've mentioned are anything but cost prohibitive for Boomerang. I don't see that as a problem at all. Overall the value & cost for titles continues to depreciate. There are exceptions like Star Wars of course, but not many.

[Sketchor]

---

_hack-SIGN_John wrote:
Now: Nick hrs: Nick M-R 7AM-8PM EST, F 7-9P, Sa 6-10P, Su 6-8P. CN M-Su 6A-9P If Turner can be counted on for anything, it's following Nick/NAN's footsteps.
Turner likes CN having the jump on Nick for mornings so I see them retaining 6A. But CN seems destined to lose 8PM M-R. Turher is probably re-thinking CN PT for weekends though, so I see CN retaining the 8pm hr on Fri & gaining the 9pm hr on Sat, especially since [as] 9pm Sat hr seems more like filler than anything else right now. That should be enough PT for [as] to make a serious run at top 3/top 5 PT status across all adult demo's.

You're wrong about Comcast. They are losing subscribers right now so they aren't in any position to lose major networks. If Turner says you pay X for CN/[as] if you pick up Boomerang, & Y if you don't, Comcast is sure to choose X. They can't afford to lose CN/[as]. The main threat is the internet. Sony is now selling HD TV's with WiFi & cellular Internet service & Apple TV is coming this year. Many of these homes are opting to go OTA & Internet & dropping their traditional pay tv service. I myself am considering this as well when shopping for these Internet TV's. So I have no doubt that Turner will re-position Boomerang to compete better vs NickT & DXD.

Forget about Turner spinning off [as] as it's own channel. That won't happen until NAN is on it's own, & I don't see that happening any time soon. It's a lot harder to do than you think & it's expensive to do so. As strong as [as] is it doesn't compare HH wise with Nick & when considering availability & expansion operators care a LOT more about HH reach than any age demographic. This is why the hugely popular Nick shares space with NAN. Likewise forget about FOX starting up the Simpson's Channel. They are more likely to bring add the Simpson's to FX & beef up FX's TD #'s.

The titles you've mentioned are anything but cost prohibitive for Boomerang. I don't see that as a problem at all. Overall the value & cost for titles continues to depreciate. There are exceptions like Star Wars of course, but not many.

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The only thing Turner is thinking about with weekend prime time is to avoid going head to head with Nick and Disney comedy premieres. Why do you think they moved comedy to Thursday and then Monday? And have adapted more of a standard network way of doing premieres than their old weekend premiere heavy schedule? Because Nick and Disney absolutely obliterate them on weekends where as on Monday - Thursday CN can actually beat Nick and commonly beats both Nick and Disney for boys demos. I'd only suggest CN getting 9PM back on Friday, Saturday and Sunday simply because Adult Swim is struggling in that hour on those nights and CN's own programming might actually do better with total viewers then but even if they dared to air their top rated comedies on those nights they wont be beating Nick and Disney's premieres which score at least a million more total viewers and also score a great deal more kids. There's something to be said for having the guts to take their competition head on but they really are better off airing premieres when their competitors are not.

Technically NAN already did spin-off it's own channel called TV Land and that was years ago but NAN sitll exists on Nick because they couldn't bare to lose it. Likewise CN can't bare to lose Adult Swim but they can bare to keep it at the hours it has now.

Of course Comcast and every other provider are concerned about the internet, that's why Turner has put most of their full episode videos on pay wall. You have to have a subscription to one of the providers they partner with in order to access Turner's on-demand videos on the internet and Comcast has made a great deal more of their video business into an on-demand service accessible on a computer. I still don't think Turner would try to force Comcast to air Boomerang if for no other reason than that Turner doesn't value Boomerang at all.

Turner not valuing Boomerang at all is exactly why action acquisitions are unlikely to happen. So are we playing the "this is what they should do" or "this is what they will do" game with Boomerang? Because this scenario only plays out in a "this is what I would do with Boomerang" which is kind of irrelevant all things considered because you don't work for Turner.

I'm merely repeating what the FOX rep said regarding a Simpsons channel. I'd consider it a waste of a channel space if they didn't at least air other adult targeted cartoons but Viacom has Futurama and Turner has the Seth trio and King of the Hill locked down already. So unless they want to keep things in the family and flood FX with episodes of The Simpsons it's bound to end up on Adult Swim or Comedy Central. That's gonna be quite a bidding war but it wont come to pass until the series is over and as someone recently corrected me, the 25th season may not actually be the last for The Simpsons.

So hypothetically years from now Adult Swim gets The Simpsons and possibly claims 8PM from CN. It's at least 2 years away and in the meantime CN will hopefully continue to flourish in prime time. If they lose even more ground then they probably will forfeit 8PM to Adult Swim once The Cleveland Show has enough episodes to get double stripped if not before then. I'd rather that scenario never happen however. Especially if it's just for more FOX reruns.

Nobody tends to make a new channel anymore but I wouldn't be so quick to write off the possibility of an Adult Swim channel (or rather a channel programmed by Williams Street featuring quirky animation and live-action programming for adults). Especially if they got The Simpsons, it would be a waste not to expand to another channel space and limit the show to a few hours (really only one that repeats) per night when there's 500+ episodes. They almost have enough content to be successful as a 24/7 network right now but not quite enough to be secure. With The Simpsons they'd have a breadwinner they could air at any and all times of the day and they would do just that.

But let me run another scenario by you. If Cartoon Network is doing well at the point The Simpsons is available wouldn't it be better for CN to keep 8PM leaving 9PM for The Simpsons? I think that would be the best scenario should CN be pulling it's weight at the time but only time will tell how CN will do in the future. I think they're off to a pretty solid recovery though.

[MasterMoltar]

2008+2009 Ratings Stats

2010 Ratings Stats

2011 First Half Ratings Stats

Here's some stats for Quarter 4 2011. Q4 = First week of October to the last week of December.

Sat 2005 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 365K

Sat 2006 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 388K

Sat 2007 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 461K

Sat 2008 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 369K

Sat 2009 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 361K

Sat 2010 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 573K

Sat 2011 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 555K

Down a little from last year since Boondocks isn't as strong as American Dad. That's still a good average though.

Sun 2005 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 807K

Sun 2006 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 670K

Sun 2007 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 906K

Sun 2008 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 912K

Sun 2009 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 940K

Sun 2010 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 761K

Sun 2011 Top 3 Average (Q4) - 751K

Sunday has fallen from 879K in Q2, to 840K in Q3, to 751K in Q4, which is even worse than 2010, ouch.

Sat 2005 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 448K

Sat 2006 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 334K

Sat 2007 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 419K

Sat 2008 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 310K

Sat 2009 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 397K

Sat 2010 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 448K

Sat 2011 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 518K

The combination of Family Guy and Boondocks, with some help from Bleach, allow for Saturday's best yearly numbers yet.

Sun 2005 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 770K

Sun 2006 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 711K

Sun 2007 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 895K

Sun 2008 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 925K

Sun 2009 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 919K

Sun 2010 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 830K

Sun 2011 Top 3 Average (Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4) - 821K

Sundays were on track to do better than 2011 until that weak 4th Quarter.

Overall, Saturday is looking better than ever because of the FG/Boondocks combo dominating the Top 3 most weeks. As we've seen though, anime isn't doing badly, and Bleach is close to the Boondocks in strength for the night. Sunday has pretty much gone from mostly dependant on Family Guy to totally dependant on Family Guy and that's it. RC does okay, but other than that, nothing else is bringing in strong numbers.

Bleach and Boondocks were up from their 2010 Saturday average. FG was slightly down from it's 2010 Sunday average and RC was slightly up from its 2010 average.

The 2011 18-34 weekly average for Adult Swim according to MLM numbers is 522K. This is up from 414K in 2008, 448K in 2009, and 497K in 2010 indicating that the weekday line-up is doing very well.

Here's to a good 2012!

[ALchemist81]

Yay! Bleach made the final Top 3 of 2011...TWICE!!

Wait, what the hell!?

Numbers Game Part I - 12/31/11

Famlly Guy - 362,000
Bleach [1:30 am] - 297,000
Bleach [5 am] - 269,000

Whaddaya expect on New Year's Eve? Plus, they're not premieres, so get over it. Just for the record, those are Bleach episodes 228 (the infamous "Boobie Buckets" beach episode) and 235 (the last episode to air in 2011).

Still, even if it was New Year's Eve, a show at 5 am making the Top 3 is downright wacky!

[ALchemist81]

And now for Part II, the first Top 3 of 2012!

Numbers Game Part II - Sunday 1/1/12

Family Guy [11 pm] - 644,000
Family Guy [10:30 pm] - 581,000
Family Guy [2 am] - 569,000

So there you have it. Apparently on New Year's Weekend, Sunday turns into Saturday and Saturday turns into Saturday cerca 2008. I'm sure this past weekend's numbers will improve dramatically.