General Games Discussion

[GiantMegaDoucheX]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217310p1.html

Rumors are flying that the next gen consoles may have some sort of security feature that prevents players from running used games.

Now, i'm going to briefly describe the many ways in which THIS SCARES THE SH*T OUT OF ME AS A GAMER.

Ahem...calming down now.

First of all, this is clearly a move against retailers who are currently selling used games at no advantage to the developers; and I can see why the developers are frustrated. The money should be going to them; not the retailers...But let's analyze what eliminating used games could mean for the industry.

Less people buying games: This would be the biggest effect, and the most distinct. No more used games means no more reselling of games as well, and there are many games (myself included) that sometimes sell used games to be able to afford another title. The people who are proposing this idea don't realize that many of us aren't buying used games out of convenience...it's because we often can't afford new ones. The bottom line is that eliminating used games means less games in the hands of players.

It could force the hand of retailers: Retailers like gamestop will suffer from this; and while that might seem cool at first, you can bet that they are going to be passing their losses onto the consumer. If retailers can survive the elimination of used games; it will likely mean that game prices will go UP even though they are worth nothing after a customer buys them.

It elminates impulse buys: People will no longer be browsing used games, and therefore it's less likely people will be impulse buying; that means no more people looking around for something to buy IN STORE. People are going to be more careful with their money, and more stingy, because they are being forced into buying new.

Less exposure to IPs. In many cases, people buying used games- if they like the game- may end up buying sequels to the game/other games by the company. No more used games means no more 'trying out a series' before deciding to play the next game a company release. In 2008 I bought a used copy of Rune Factory for the DS...and I ended up purchasing almost every other sequel NEW afterwards. This type of thing may no longer happen under this new model.

People are going to be looking for more substantial games. Customers are going to be encouraged to buy games that will have a long lasting appeal to them...like Skyrim...I probably don't need to tell you why. Hell; I already DO this...

This situation could lead to a monopoly situation. Assuming retailers do NOT recover from this new model; we could be seeing a situation on console gaming where you may only be able to buy Xbox games via a microsoft platform (same example for Playstation can be applied through PSN store). If there is no other distribution platform for Xbox games; then what is to stop Microsoft from charging whatever they feel like for games?

This is a dangerous time for console gaming, in my opinion...and it's making PC gaming look a whole lot friendlier by comparison. PC gaming has already been like this for years; but it was done to ward off illegal piracy...not the perfectly LEGAL sale of used goods.

[lunarnoodle]

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GiantMegaDoucheX wrote:

THIS SCARES THE SH*T OUT OF ME AS A GAMER.

---

ditto to this. This would be a disaster. 

I too sell used games on ebay in order to afford new or other used games.

Despite the massive market in used games, I find it difficult to believe that devs are not making large profits on game sales, especially those blockbuster titles.

I find it continually frustrating that entertainment industries go through such lengths to stifle trends of consumers to save profits rather than recognizing the demand and crafting their business models in response to it. 

Microsoft for example could instead trade used games on the xbox website and get a piece of those sales rather than stifling players by prohibiting play of second hand games.

If this is true, shame on you Microsoft.

[EvilsergE]

If PC has been doing it for years and are fine, maybe consoles won't be effected as much as you think?

I hope this doesn't happen, though.

[harryfrodo]

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EvilsergE wrote:
If PC has been doing it for years and are fine, maybe consoles won't be effected as much as you think?

I hope this doesn't happen, though.

---

The PC industry is "fine?" News to me.

Honestly, this doesn't bother me as much as it should. I hardly buy games used anymore. Looking at the last ten games or so I've purchased, none of them have yellow stickers on the side. Either due to publishers' own insistence of "online passes" or "game-day DLC," the industry has done an overall good job of killing the interest of buying used games for me.

I no longer buy physical discs of PSX or PS2 games anymore either. I just download them on PSN.

I know for a fact I haven't purchased an EA-published game in well over a couple years now. Not since before Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 came out and started the whole "new game DLC" nonsense.

I guess I'm pretty well indoctrinated, for better or worse of the industry.

[MjuromaruM]

This current gen is my last gen of consoles simply because they get more and more expensive with each new gen. Simply can't afford it anymore. So it doesn't affect me as I may finally be getting a life, yay!

[harryfrodo]

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MjuromaruM wrote:

This current gen is my last gen of consoles simply because they get more and more expensive with each new gen. Simply can't afford it anymore. So it doesn't affect me as I may finally be getting a life, yay!

---

You'll come to find that "having a life" is way more expensive than video games. It's more expensive getting myself drunk on a Friday night than it is buying a video game that'll last me a month these days.

[Engie]

I'm not sure about the entire PC industry, but I know Valve is doing great.

[Engie]

I remember hearing on a podcast or video that PS3 and 360 developers get around $8 for every new game sold.

[MjuromaruM]

---

harryfrodo wrote:

---

MjuromaruM wrote:

This current gen is my last gen of consoles simply because they get more and more expensive with each new gen. Simply can't afford it anymore. So it doesn't affect me as I may finally be getting a life, yay!

---

You'll come to find that "having a life" is way more expensive than video games. It's more expensive getting myself drunk on a Friday night than it is buying a video game that'll last me a month these days.

---

Well theres that but still, but can you imagine the next gen prices? We're lookin about 500$ and maybe even 70$ a game with no chance of having pre-owned. Get ready because you just might get financially fuuuuuudgeed. I hope you get A LOT of fun out of the Xbox: orgasnn or whatever it  is they're gonna call it.

[harryfrodo]

I will, and it goes beyond just games.

I watch baseball and hockey on my PS3 with internet services like NHL.com's Gamecenter and MLB.tv instead of paying significantly higher prices for television packages like Center Ice. I actually only use the Playstation 3 for this reason on top of being a Blu-Ray player and a glorified PSX/PS2 machine. And guess what? I'm OK with that. I don't see how I could live without it now, except otherwise perhaps just going to every Washington Capitals home game. Because I stuck through watching games on my laptop through undergrad and I'm not going back to that.

I'm still using the HDTV I have from undergrad, so it doesn't have Netflix onboard. I use consoles instead for Netflix, and is actually one of the biggest timesinks of my weekend, cutting down a lot of expenses for finding things to do when hanging out with my girlfriend rather than going out drinking or seeing a movie.

I mean, OK. I see the problem with used games no longer being available to be played, especially in the concept of simply loaning games to my ex-roommate and a couple other friends. But the Xbox 360 has growing content every month and soon I'll be able to watch Comcast OnDemand on my Xbox. Streaming HBO TV shows from my Xbox? Yeah. That's cool, and removes the need of paying for another cable box just for my bedroom. It's more than just a video game platform, and things previously done and watched on the PC are being phased out in favor of using consoles and smaller devices.

There's a million reasons why the PC format is dying, and DRM is just one of them. It won't kill consoles, so just relax. I am not happy to hear it, but remember these are just rumors.

[harryfrodo]

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Engie wrote:

I'm not sure about the entire PC industry, but I know Valve is doing great.

---

Valve also publishes their own games and operates on their own (ridiculously slow) schedule.

They're not the common PC developer.

[EvilsergE]

The only thing that does bother me is that I won't be able to try a game out before purchasing it, and after the sale, if I hate it, I can't do anything with it.

That's the biggest concern.

[lunarnoodle]

$8 huh?
My first thought there was "that's it!?" But you know, if that is all profit after salaries and other expenses, that is really good.
Multiply that by a million copies sold on major titles.
Not too shabby.

[harryfrodo]

---

EvilsergE wrote:
The only thing that does bother me is that I won't be able to try a game out before purchasing it, and after the sale, if I hate it, I can't do anything with it.

That's the biggest concern.

---

There's demos out there for practically every major release these days.

[ramo200]

Even though I'm okay with buying new games (I never buy used games unless they are absolutely rare/out of print), I seriously doubt this will happen. There was talk about the Playstation 3 having some sort of mechanism where it prevents you to play any copies of a game that isn't tied to the original console yet, obviously, it never came to fruition. Plus it'll definitely anger a few retailers (Gamestop, Best Buy) since it'll be cutting into their business.

However, if it indeed goes through for next-gen consoles, then I, and most likely the rest of the world, will probably wait for a sale to come along which in the long run will not be so great for the games industry.

[Goldar]

Good thing I only buy new games.

*remains unaffected*

edit: Oh wait wait, never mind, I still need more 64 games in my library. I'll just say I'm largely unaffected.

[770312]

That would blow... I dont think it'll happen though. I think this kind of move would drive a lot of people to piracy and would end up hurting the industry more than used game sales.

[3002-3038]

A game has to be bought new, before it can be considered used.

anywho I rarely buy used games however me and my friends do trade games back and forth.
and I for one would flip a biscuit if they instituted this kind of thing.

and no lie I would revolt to the point of refusing to buy new games and stick to indy games
or consoles that did not have this attachment.

[Meilag32]

While I agree it's a douche move, it doesn't affect me at all.  I only buy new, so I really don't care, either way. 

I guess it would kill the rental industry though.  Good bye Gamefly for those who use it. 

[_Star_Wolf_]

Well if it's true I'll be skipping another gaming gen.

[GiantMegaDoucheX]

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Goldar wrote:
Good thing I only buy new games.

*remains unaffected*

edit: Oh wait wait, never mind, I still need more 64 games in my library. I'll just say I'm largely unaffected.

---

You will be affected...whether Gamestop raises prices or we enter a monopoly digitial distribution system; you may be paying more for games...even new ones.

[mochi]

---

GiantMegaDoucheX wrote:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217310p1.html

Rumors are flying that the next gen consoles may have some sort of security feature that prevents players from running used games.

Now, i'm going to briefly describe the many ways in which THIS SCARES THE SH*T OUT OF ME AS A GAMER.

Ahem...calming down now.

First of all, this is clearly a move against retailers who are currently selling used games at no advantage to the developers; and I can see why the developers are frustrated. The money should be going to them; not the retailers...But let's analyze what eliminating used games could mean for the industry.

Less people buying games: This would be the biggest effect, and the most distinct. No more used games means no more reselling of games as well, and there are many games (myself included) that sometimes sell used games to be able to afford another title. The people who are proposing this idea don't realize that many of us aren't buying used games out of convenience...it's because we often can't afford new ones. The bottom line is that eliminating used games means less games in the hands of players.

It could force the hand of retailers: Retailers like gamestop will suffer from this; and while that might seem cool at first, you can bet that they are going to be passing their losses onto the consumer. If retailers can survive the elimination of used games; it will likely mean that game prices will go UP even though they are worth nothing after a customer buys them.

It elminates impulse buys: People will no longer be browsing used games, and therefore it's less likely people will be impulse buying; that means no more people looking around for something to buy IN STORE. People are going to be more careful with their money, and more stingy, because they are being forced into buying new.

Less exposure to IPs. In many cases, people buying used games- if they like the game- may end up buying sequels to the game/other games by the company. No more used games means no more 'trying out a series' before deciding to play the next game a company release. In 2008 I bought a used copy of Rune Factory for the DS...and I ended up purchasing almost every other sequel NEW afterwards. This type of thing may no longer happen under this new model.

People are going to be looking for more substantial games. Customers are going to be encouraged to buy games that will have a long lasting appeal to them...like Skyrim...I probably don't need to tell you why. Hell; I already DO this...

This situation could lead to a monopoly situation. Assuming retailers do NOT recover from this new model; we could be seeing a situation on console gaming where you may only be able to buy Xbox games via a microsoft platform (same example for Playstation can be applied through PSN store). If there is no other distribution platform for Xbox games; then what is to stop Microsoft from charging whatever they feel like for games?

This is a dangerous time for console gaming, in my opinion...and it's making PC gaming look a whole lot friendlier by comparison. PC gaming has already been like this for years; but it was done to ward off illegal piracy...not the perfectly LEGAL sale of used goods.

---

I guess it's a good thing I'm not that hardcore of a gamer, goodbye gaming, you were fun while you lasted

[crapshot2]

just another reason why indie pc games are going to shine

[Blah_canbespanish]

I have serious doubts that something like this will suddenly increase game prices. Gamestop is not the only retailer out there. I know that many companies have introduced their own Used trade in system(BB/Amazon/etc), but that was mainly due to the fact that Gamestop was making huge amounts of money from it and they all wanted in. Prices didn't suddenly drop when they entered the used game business.

The impulse buy/less exposure thing could easily be countered by making it a requirement that all games released on the system release a demo beforehand.

As for a monopoly, I really have no idea where this paragraph is coming from. For one thing if Microsoft were to remove itself from the physical retail world, this entire issue is moot as downloadable games could never be traded in. The "blocking used game system" would be pointless as there wouldn't be anything to block.

Secondly, buying used is not the only distribution platform for buying a game. No one can say what the future of game entails but, at least for the next generation, physical media is still incredibly important. Buying new retail will still be an option, and MS can't get away with charging more than them.

Finally, what is stopping MS from charging whatever they want for current XBLA only content? Not to mention DLC. I would certainly agree some of that stuff is too expensive, but it's not like they are robbing people here.

I also really don't see how a system like this makes PC gaming more attractive. People don't play consoles over PC solely because of used games, that's absurd. Even if they did what would that change? Why would they abandon the convenience of a console just to go to another platform with the same problem? Out of spite?

It seems like a lot of your points here are very doom and gloom, and I can't really understand where you are coming from.

With all that said, I think this entire thing is a terrible idea and I highly doubt MS would actually go through with it. The increasingly popular method of having "free" DLC in new games is the industries best bet thus far, and it's one idea that I can actually get behind.

[conanwong]

if that shi- happened, i think imma void my warranty, if i ever get one, and install mods and shi- just to #### off the developers of next gen games and consoles.