General Games Discussion

[Blah_canbespanish]

If anything the companies do see it coming; that's why Sony is working on the whole PS Suite thing, there are rumors of indie support on the Wii U/3DS coming, etc.

I'm not really sure how the lack of used games will increase the indie scene either (if the used counter measure is what you're referring to), they really have nothing to do with each other.

[Hypergirl]

Blah_canbespanish wrote:
If anything the companies do see it coming; that's why Sony is working on the whole PS Suite thing, there are rumors of indie support on the Wii U/3DS coming, etc.

I'm not really sure how the lack of used games will increase the indie scene either (if the used counter measure is what you're referring to), they really have nothing to do with each other.

---

let me just tell you how it is, and maybee then you can come up with a similar conclusion I am. games 20 years ago for the snes and genises used to take a long time to program and where difficult, you should go read horror stories of programers for the nes/snes/genises.

now however it takes 1 guy a month to program a game, and that is working a full time job etc... the tools have become so great and user friendly what used to take years takes months, if even that. most games on phones now days are just that, indie games that a couple of dudes got together and produced and made bank. ala angry birds.

most of these games can be crossed platformed with no problem. the same runtime is available for the 360 as for the wii as for the iphone as for the pc and mac. the only one that it doesn't really exist on (with all the crossplatforming) is the ps3. you can come up with your own conclusion.

[Tampon_Fingers]

That's probably because you can play angry birds anywhere. Even in Facebook.

[Blah_canbespanish]

Yes, and how does that have anything to do with what I said?

I'm not disputing the fact that the indie scene is expanding, it clearly is, what I was questioning was your line of thought regarding how the next generation of console's possible DRM measures has anything to do with it - or how the console makers don't see it coming (when they clearly do)

[Hypergirl]

ok, lets try this again.

greed. there is a great thread in babbling covering this you should go look at.

this is basicly the straw that (will)break the camels back. a few years ago when DLCs where becoming popular a debate was had (and is still going strong actually) what is a proper DLC and what is just greed? that really has not been answered. one side, the anti DLC people said something, that if this was allowed to continue it would grow into a monster, and it has. let me ask you a question, what was the last game you played without DLC's? now we have games like Mass effect that give you the option of purchasing a squadmember as a day 1 dlc. the argument can be had if that is a proper DLC or not but what is clear is 5 years ago this #### was not happening. companies have seen what DLC's can do and have exploited them to the point where you don't know if this was supposed to be in the game or shaved off for a DLC. that they make a ploy like the character in mass effect just to squeeze people into buying it and it ####. it's like they make the game for DLC's.

I mean how many DLC's are available for Mass effect 3, like 25. it seems like multiplayer was designed just to get people to purchase packs.

this DRM #### completely destroys a large part of the gaming experience, used games. game exchanges exist and do good buisness. I'm able to go and buy the first two saints rows game for 20 bucks, trade in asura's wraith and get a deal on another game. thats been going on sense the 80's. with DRM I won't be able to do this.

and no, they don't know they are about to hit a brick wall. the outcry over DLC's has been going strong for years now and what do the game companies do? they put in more contraversial DLC's that just heat up the debate even more. you have the thread in babbling right now, the game companies don't see that or else they wouldn't be doing this ####.

and because this people are going to jump ship and indies games are going to skyrocket.

[Blah_canbespanish]

Why do you keep bringing up random topics that have nothing to do with what I said? I never said anything about DLC or how publishers are handling it. I said the console makers realize the value in indie gaming, and they are actively trying to get into that market.

If you insist on bringing up DLC, then I'll just say the DLC stuff will continue as long as it continues to sell as well as it does.

If people truly don't like DLC then they simply won't buy it. If sales go down far enough then the big companies may back down a bit, but considering how things are going now that probably won't happen anytime soon. The tired but true "vocal minority" moniker most gamers have on the internet isn't far off, it's why CoD map packs continue to sell like hotcakes while everyone #### about it.

But again, none of this has to do with lack of used games or how it will lead to indie games. It's not like people are going to abandon console gaming in mass because they don't like DLC or want to sell their used games. I already said what they will do for the former, for the latter - where are they going to go? If selling their used games is so intrinsically part of their gaming habits then they will just stop gaming all together. You can't resell indie or PC games.

[Hypergirl]

DLC has a direct link to this because it is one of the variables at play, just like the DRM.

 it's all interconnected and you would be wise to see that. for the outrage is growing way more intense now than it was. you might not have anything to say against it but public sentiment is mostly negative. I mean fuuuuuudge, where you asleep with the whole mass effect DLC thing? the rage is growing. 

adding DRM is just going to do it in. and when the public see's that you can get quality games (that are way more interesting 80% of the time) for 5 dollars as apposed to 60 dollar peices of crap.... well even you can see where I'm going with that.

[distorted_reasoning]

for people that say it is not time for a new console, you are crazy.
its been 7 years now, we are long over due for new consoles.
the hardware is really holding back advancement.
and hopefully they make the new consoles somewhat comparable to what current high gen pc cards can do.

[Tampon_Fingers]

---

distorted_reasoning wrote:
hopefully they make the new consoles somewhat comparable to what current high gen pc cards can do.

---

Yah, and charge people their first born son for it.

I love videogames, but not enough to hand over my Wes.

[Hypergirl]

also, the people have spoken, for a while now actually.

if the game companies keep doing the #### they are doing now, the same #### that is largely the direct reason for what's in that link, then who knows what the next 5 years will look like video game wise.

[Blah_canbespanish]

The ME DLC "outrage" didn't last very long did it? It got pretty overshadowed by the ending, and amusingly enough, most people demanded more DLC to extend on the ending. Now we're getting it too, for free no less. It reminds me of all the ranting we saw with MW3 and the server support, even people who joined steam groups specifically to protest bought the game day 1.

Where has this public been for the past decade? You could always get cheaper and (potentially) better games on PC, that hasn't stopped consoles from completely overshadowing PC gaming. You have also continued to ignore the fact that the console makers are trying to enter into the indie market. XBLA Arcade and PS Suite being two huge examples. This is not some huge secret that gaming industry is too stupid to see, they see the potential there.

The average gamer, the ones who make these big companies most of their money, simply don't care about a lot of the stuff you're talking about. Those are the guys that really matter, and if they really were this upset they would be voting with their wallets. Companies like EA wouldn't be making so much off DLC. Should that ever change, the gaming industry will simply adjust prices or adjust their business focus away from DLC. There will not be some huge console exodus, the sky isn't falling.

You're completely exaggerating what is happening. Which I really shouldn't be surprised about I guess, next time I'll need to pay more attention to signatures before arguing.

[Hypergirl]

ohh wicked burn.

to bad your just completely wrong about everything, the sad part is you don't know it. Should of known. I mean honestly, you have to have someone explain to you how DRM's are bad and still not able to comprehend it after that? I mean, youa re seriously the only one in this thread, in the other thread.... on the internet who thinks this is good for business.

I guess you really loved sopa and pipa as well.

and ya, I know all about the XBLA stuff, I have looked into becoming an indie developer and it's still a #### deal, both are. the entire reason behind indie game developers is that you are outside the confines of a publisher. microsoft takes a 30% share from all procedes. they also limit the size and scope of games as well as edit content.. but you knew all this, right.

[distorted_reasoning]

---

Tampon_Fingers wrote:

---

distorted_reasoning wrote:
hopefully they make the new consoles somewhat comparable to what current high gen pc cards can do.

---

Yah, and charge people their first born son for it.

I love videogames, but not enough to hand over my Wes.

---

maybe i should rephrase that,

i want them to make something that is affordable and more powerful than the current gen.

if the rumors are true, it might actually somewhat happen.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/04/sources-detail-the-playsta
tion-4s-processing-specs

if these specs are true, we might actually get an affordable, and even more power next gen console.

though it wont be anywhere near current high end or even mainstream gpus, but at least it will still be about 3-4 times more powerful.

[distorted_reasoning]

console makers dont really give a sh*t about indie games.
they only care about million dollar franchises and playing it safe.
lucky for us in the last 2-3 years, the indie scene has picked up considerably on the pc.
also while the pc market is still smaller than the console market, it has really gained a lot of steam thanks to digital distribution.

[Hypergirl]

yup. it's getting stronger all the time.

[harryfrodo]

---

distorted_reasoning wrote:
they only care about million dollar franchises and playing it safe.

---

I've never heard of Microsoft refusing to have a title on their Xbox, or Sony refusing to have a title on their Playstation. In fact there's tons of titles available on XBLA. It may not be the most effective distribution model compared to making something available to be downloaded on the computer, but I don't think Microsoft really cares about anything but whether they're turning a profit. And indie games are a part of that profit.

I think what you meant to say was that publishers only care about million dollar franchises and playing it safe.

[harryfrodo]

---

Hypergirl wrote:
this is basicly the straw that (will)break the camels back.

---

I wasn't aware the situation was that dire.

I don't think anyone is going to argue with you that the Prothean DLC was a huge stab in the back by Electronic Arts and BioWare, but the multiplayer wasn't designed to just get people to purchase packs. The packs don't have to be purchased with money (I don't), and instead can be purchased through earned credits by completing missions. EA uses this same model for their sports games. For NHL 11 they introduced a mode called "Hockey Ultimate Team" where you basically play as GM, building your team by collecting players in the form of trading cards. You buy card packs and there are even promotional deals that cycle every few days. Sound familiar? Even FIFA 12 has this now, I think. Either that or Madden 12.

It's there for people that wish to buy it, but you don't have to. Like in Mass Effect 3 where I run with an Avenger X and top the leaderboards of matches (which I maxed out by redeeming Recruit Packs 5000 credits a pop), my hockey club in Ultimate wasn't assembled by using Microsoft Points. And I've got something like a .780 winning percentage playing online on NHL 12. Some people out there, including some friends of mine, prefer to spend a few bucks here and there and reward themselves by buying a few packs. What's the problem with that? It's their money.

Nobody is going to "jump ship." The more unsettling reality you should soon come to terms with is that people just simply will no longer buy used games anymore. I don't even remember the last time I bought a game used. And it wasn't necessarily because of online passes or some other reason. I just don't much see the point in saving five dollars when I can just buy a game that's brand-new with no scratches on it.

I think the other thing you need to come to terms with is that these situations of "bad DLC" are far outnumbered by great design choices and integrated content that expands games far beyond what they were upon release. Truth be told, the positives of having DLC far outweigh the negatives. No one is going to ditch their consoles. The great part about today's society is that I can enjoy indie games on my smartphone and then boot up my Xbox to play Battlefield and NHL.

I don't much see the need to make a choice here when I can simply have both, like owning an Xbox and PS3.

[distorted_reasoning]

no, i meant what i said. indy games dont bring much money to microsoft or sony. its only drops in the buckets compared to big named titles like call of duty or mass effect 3. im willing to bet that indy games at best make only a very small percentage of profit for these console makers.