Ghost in the Shell

[scoobdog]

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Vladimir wrote:

So if they have a collective consciousness in the sky... do we?

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It was this particular comment that refreshed my memory to this particular episode. I wasn't a big fan of the second series, but this episode reminded me of what I liked about the franchise in the first place. In particular, it was nice that the "heart and soul" of the show, the tachis, actually got a soul.

That being said... who else loves the irony of the tachicomas being the most tragic characters of the GitSAC?

[Vladimir]

I've heard it argued that the Tachis are the true protagonists of this show, as opposed to the Niners, because they undergo the most character development during the course of the series.  They get more facetime here than in the movies or the manga, and this taken with the "Tachikomatic Days" sessions (which we never get to see) tells us that they are more than mere conveniences, or even mascots.

It's worth noting that there are eight human/cyborg members of Section 9, and adding the Tachis makes... well, nine.

Wait a second...

Kusanagi = pitcher

Batou = catcher

Ishikawa = first base

Saito = second base

Togusa = third base

Boma = shortstop

Pazu = right field

Tachikomas = center field

Aramaki = left field

You think I got it right?

[scoobdog]

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Vladimir wrote:

Wait a second...

Kusanagi = pitcher

Batou = catcher

Ishikawa = first base

Saito = second base

Togusa = third base

Boma = shortstop

Pazu = right field

Tachikomas = center field

Aramaki = left field

You think I got it right?

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ROFL

(I especially like your choices for pitcher and catcher; suits that disfunctional love/hate relationship to a T.)

It's probably of special note that we do see less of them outside of the anime itself, particularly since they are not in a position to be primary plot protagonists. Such a character(s, if you consider the fact that they do take on individual personalities,) is too easily expanded upon to ignore, but you can't really create an atagonistic develeopment arc for them without distracting from an already intricate plot. They seem to be perfect for the one of those obligiatory mini-arcs that animes typically incorporate to fill in the spaces left by the original manga while keeping the story intact.

[matrixman124]

Aramaki is more like the Team Manager...

[Vladimir]

Who says he can't fill both positions?

As for the android operators... I guess they're working the concession stand or something...

[scoobdog]

Doing the whole player/manager thing didn't work out so well for Pete Rose...

[Vladimir]

After double-checking my schedule, I see that the first of the four remaining episodes reruns tonight.  Expect a review over the weekend.

The final three all air back-to-back, and I may not be able to get them up immediately, especially considering I have the usual TB review to handle.  But they will be here.

FYI, new TB review is up, finally.

[Vladimir]

Note: several coming up back to back.  I've got one other review waiting for a write-up and this week's TB on standby.  Patience is a virtue, children.

• Kayabuki had better be grateful for even this artificial expression of affection, because she’s getting no love in this meeting.
• Really, it was only a matter of time before someone used Her Ladyship’s pro-China stance against her…
• Few people, even in the top levels, realize that the current progression from bad to worse is all part of the plan.
• Considering what we know now, some would call this a fateful mistake.  But Aramaki was grasping at straws here.  In retrospect, it probably didn’t help that bringing in the UN was partially motivated by Beijing’s grumbling.
• Right about now, those new recruits are probably padding their life insurance policies.
• Takekura’s understandably annoyed by Kayabuki’s latest diplomatic coup, but thinking critically, it puts him right where he wants to be.
• I can’t help wondering what the rank-and-file think about this… although the rebels’ opinion is pretty obvious.
• It follows, of course, that if Kayabuki’s out of the picture, her successor can say no dice to the inspection team, flinging wide the door to hell.
• I figured the phrase “pack of rogue thugs” was in the Section 9 mission statement.
• Sometimes the action gets a little hard to follow here, so I’ll summarize: everyone thinks Kuze has plutonium, which he doesn’t.  Present the SDA with Kuze and the plutonium tied up in a pretty little gift basket and there’ll be no need for bang-bang, and no one but Goda will be the wiser.  This would be the Section 9 equivalent of data manipulation.
• Notice Saito’s much more eager than Pazu to get in on this op.  For Boma, it’s another day at the office.
• “I’ll earn my pay on this one, on the expectation for some cheap thrills as a bonus.”  Quote of the night.
• Ishikawa’s glad to help, if only because it means getting away from hand-wringing television news analysis interspersed with servings of lime Jell-o.
• “That’s one seriously insane plan you’ve got there.”  Yes—so crazy it just might work!
• “You can watch for us on the news when we turn over the plutonium.”  Or get shot to rags for illegitimately intervening in a national crisis.  Whichever.
• It’s hard to tell if Batou is jealous of Kuze, or whoever Kuze is reminding the Major of.  Then again, he might just be considered about lingering aftereffects from her earlier “meeting” with him.
• Little does she know that “ancient history” is about to repeat itself.
• While Kuze is wise to end the suicide bombing policy, he’s crazy if he thinks they can win this thing without firing even one bullet.
  Aramaki?!  How did he get here?  What, that’s his long-lost twin brother?  Of course, I knew it all the time.  CV: Not.  V: Did so!  CV: Wiar.  V: Nuh-uh!  CV: Wiar, wiar, panth on fire, hang your britcheth on a… (the chibi is slapped several feet)
• But seriously, last time Yosuke appeared it was assumed he was on the mainland.  I guess he just goes where he’s needed.  Note the prosthetic arm.
• You’ll remember the idea of humans only existing in the context of each other was a major theme of NGE also.
• Kuze realizes that the true revolution must come from within, but he acknowledges that you can’t focus on self-improvement and cultivation of your higher self if your belly’s empty.
• Of course the albino crow showed up.  He has to look out for his pet human.
• Finally, a new tiltrotor.  Maybe this one has a microfridge.
• It’s at the 30… the 20… the 10… and she’s tackled one foot over the goal line.
• Kuze and Goda’s philosophies are quite similar, regardless of their intentions.  Some people would argue that Goda’s worldview is a dark and twisted perversion of Kuze’s.  I say it’s merely a logical extension divested of its high-mindedness—and it’s Goda quoting the very same words Kuze spoke to Yosuke that proves my point.  It also suggests that even Kuze’s attempt to change his destiny is being planned out by Goda—a frightening thought.
• Myeah, the old man can just take the next ferry out.  What part of “blockade” do you not understand?
• All it takes is one loose cannon and you’ve got a fusillade of disaster on your hands.  Whitey’s just as powerless to stop his followers from acting out as he is at keeping his hub cyberbrain online.
• This is it, folks… “The Day the Bridge Falls.”  And there’s more to that broken bridge than a few lost Fuchis…

[ben0119]

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scoobdog wrote:
Doing the whole player/manager thing didn't work out so well for Pete Rose...

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That's why Kane choke slams him every year!

Great work on the reviews as always, Vlad!  We really appreciate you taking the little time you have in your schedule left to two sets of reviews simultaneously.  *thumbs up!*

[MeggieMay]

No, this isn't a bump to ask where the rest of the reviews are at, so Vlad can sigh in relief  .

Instead, I just read some information on the GitS: Laughing Man Compilation film (which I think officially hits stores this upcoming Tuesday) and I needed to share/rant/I don't know but it's bugging me and I need to talk about it.

Anyway, according to a poster at AnimeOnDVD the movie has a completely new dubcast from the TV series

http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/24783/

I'm really not sure what I think of it. On one hand I'm unhappy and displeased (I like the series dub cast) but on the other I realize these comp films don't sell as well as the TV series do and keeping the price on the dub down may have been the only way these comp movies were going to get a dub at all. Also, the Canadian VA's they're listing are some of the better ones, IMO, so it isn't like they outsourced this to Calgary or Odex (Singapore).

Still, this is really bugging me so I needed to sound off someplace and this thread is about as close to a home GitS one that I've ever posted in.

[Dark_Cloud_Overhead]

Yeah, I saw that, too.  Looks like that rumor was true somewhat after all.  Oh well, I'll still buy it.  A cheap dub is still better than no dub at all, and the DVD comes with the original Japanese anyway, so can always just switch over if I don't like it I guess.

[GinaSzanboti]

I don't even quite understand the point of this.  It sounds to me like they just re-edited the series to cut out stand-alone episodes and condense it to a movie length story.  I understand they added some footage to make the transitions smoother, but if most of it is from the original series, it seems like it'd be cheaper to do a few scenes with the original cast than to re-dub the entire thing.

Is this dvd something other than what I've read?  (didn't even know it existed until yesterday, so I'm writing blind here)

I'm certainly not unhappy with the idea of David Kaye as Batou though.    And GitS has had so many different VAs and incarnations that I'm not really married to any particular version, look, or sound. 

[scoobdog]

That's kind of interesting. Has anything like this ever happened before? Personally, I'm almost exclusively dub (changing the casts between Gensoumaden Saiyuki and Saiyuki Reload/Gunlock drove me batty even though there was a very legitimate reason), so I'm probably pretty biased, but doesn't this open up an unnecessary can of worms? Is there a specific reason to redub the entire OAV when it apparently has only limited amount of new footage? I could see if the first dub was of poor quality (the recording, not the performaces)...

Edit: Looks like Gina said the same thing, only faster.

Message Edited by scoobdog on 09-30-2007 02:58 PM

[Vladimir]

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MeggieMay wrote:

No, this isn't a bump to ask where the rest of the reviews are at, so Vlad can sigh in relief  .

Still, this is really bugging me so I needed to sound off someplace and this thread is about as close to a home GitS one that I've ever posted in.

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FTR, count on me picking up this thread right where it left off.  You could say my honor's at stake here.  I'd planned to do the same thing with the TB Showcase until AS inexplicably 86ed the rebroadcast.

And thanks.

[MeggieMay]

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GinaSzanboti wrote:
I don't even quite understand the point of this.  It sounds to me like they just re-edited the series to cut out stand-alone episodes and condense it to a movie length story.  I understand they added some footage to make the transitions smoother, but if most of it is from the original series, it seems like it'd be cheaper to do a few scenes with the original cast than to re-dub the entire thing.

Is this dvd something other than what I've read?  (didn't even know it existed until yesterday, so I'm writing blind here)

I'm certainly not unhappy with the idea of David Kaye as Batou though.    And GitS has had so many different VAs and incarnations that I'm not really married to any particular version, look, or sound. 

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I think with these compliation movies they often have to redub quite a bit of dialog to make it flow correctly. Still, you bring up a vaild point that had they gone with the original VA's they could have used clips out of the series to help fill in things. It makes the decision to go with different actors more baffling to me.

As to the GitS cast changing a lot over the years - it actually hasn't changed that much. With the exception of Togusa and The Major being recast, the rest of the original theaterical dub cast has been the same (though several used their non union names in the original film). In particular, Richard Epcar has always been Batou's voice up until this point. Which might explain why he is the source of the rumor. It was Epcar who mentioned they were thinking of dubbing Solid State Society in Canada, at a convention. I can understand why he's upset - he's been playing Batou for ten years and even produced the UK dub for GitS 2: Innocense. Having another actor replace him at this point must have really stung .

Anyway, now we find out Epcar must have known something because while he was wrong on the final SSS dub, Bandia/Manga did go to Canada for these. I have to wonder if they really had told Epcar they'd use this new group to do SSS but changed their mind (maybe after SciFi channel made the deal with Manga for Ani Mondays???)? If nothing else, Epcar's batting average is automatically higher than JYB's now, seeing JYB keeps spreading wild rumors (probably not on purpose but he needs to work on his jokes if that last one was really a joke) .

[AL429]

Wow, this thread got new posts.........yeah, it's been a while since I seen any of the old GITS: S.A.C. discussion thread got any new posts.  Good times.

Anyhow, this is actually news to me since I haven't been paying much attention to GITS: S.A.C. news since Solid State Society aired on Sci-fi.  I've been actually keeping up with new Production I.G. shows that are hitting or is going to hit the Japanese air waves so pardon me if I am a little out of touch as of late in regards to Ghost in the Shell matters........and nope, there is no new talk of a new anime series for GITS: S.A.C., but there is still some buzz left over from that "live action" film adaptation plans they got of the original Ghost in the Shell Anime Movie from 1995 though.

In all honestly I am not too bothered by this latest fact since those OVAs are mostly re-caps of the two original S.A.C. series anyhow.  I actually would of just buy those with no English dubs anyhow, but I am not too surprised if they've gone cheap on those and decided to not use the original English dub cast.  I am not going to pass judgment until I actually see or hear those dubs.  For all I know it could be surprising that the Ocean cast may just sound like the original dub cast from Animaze and ZRO Limit.

Does that mean that Ocean did the dubs for the 2nd GIG "Individual Eleven" OVA as well?  According to ANN here, the 2nd GIG OVA will be the same dub cast (ZRO Limit and Animaze) as the original TV series.  Now this just got stranger and stranger. 

I may end up buying those OVAs anyhow despite the different English Dub Cast since I am such a curious fan of the series and I haven't seen those yet, but I am going to have to wait on those right now since I am actually trying to buy a few of the Geneon titles before they are gone forever.  GITS: S.A.C. related material will still be around for a long while so those two OVAs can wait. 

Also, does anyone on here noticed the fact that there are no news that Manga or Bandai will release any more of the GITS: S.A.C. Series Logs either?!  I am more disappointed about that then the English dub cast changes for The Laughing Man OVAs since those Logs, IMHO, are definitely worth to buy rather than those series re-cap OVAs.

[GinaSzanboti]

What are Series Logs?

[MeggieMay]

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AL429 wrote:

Does that mean that Ocean did the dubs for the 2nd GIG "Individual Eleven" OVA as well?  According to ANN here, the 2nd GIG OVA will be the same dub cast (ZRO Limit and Animaze) as the original TV series.  Now this just got stranger and stranger. 

Well ANN is a fan run database, like Wiki and IMDB. Stuff gets put in there all the time that's wrong. So until the show comes out or someone asks the Ocean rep (who was over posting at the ANN boards today), I don't think we'll know for certain just who is doing the 2nd Gig OVA.

I may end up buying those OVAs anyhow despite the different English Dub Cast since I am such a curious fan of the series and I haven't seen those yet, but I am going to have to wait on those right now since I am actually trying to buy a few of the Geneon titles before they are gone forever.  GITS: S.A.C. related material will still be around for a long while so those two OVAs can wait. 

Also, does anyone on here noticed the fact that there are no news that Manga or Bandai will release any more of the GITS: S.A.C. Series Logs either?!  I am more disappointed about that then the English dub cast changes for The Laughing Man OVAs since those Logs, IMHO, are definitely worth to buy rather than those series re-cap OVAs.

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Officially, there's been no words on the Log's status and I've not heard anything unofficial about them either. Still, I noticed this upcoming compliation movie has some extras on it and I'm not sure if that's Log material or something that came out with the Logs in Japan?

Gina - the Logs were a DVD set put out by Manga a few years ago that were suppose to cover both series (I think it was two DVD's for each series). They had extra information and a nice booklet that went into details on the show. As far as I can remember, only the first one of two for First Gig) came out before Manga canceled the rest of them. It was never clear if they simiply didn't sell well enough or if something else happened (Manga was bought out by Starz around that time, so that could have also been the reason they were pulled). Manga always said they'd release them later but so far nothings shown up.

[Vladimir]

Note: at long last, the remaining few eps of the series.  We pick right where we left off with "NUCLEAR POWER"...

• Dejima Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down…
• The stage is set; now all Goda has to do is lean back and watch.
• Kuze’s thoughts: This… could have gone a little better.
• The top brass have to retaliate to save face.  But they would go with the option that would cause the most panic…
• I could have sworn the clubhouse was around here someplace…
• And you… are… outta here!
• If they knew how the old man’s been wet-nursing Kayabuki all this time, it’s a wonder they haven’t shot him on sight.
• You’re really going to try and take on all these MIBs yourself?
• Even when Kubota actually wants to help, he’s useless…
• Goda knew he’d have a chance to reenact this training exercise, and this time he doesn’t have to worry about Section 9 interfering.  Hamburger-head’s been planning twenty-odd steps ahead of the others.
• “If you keep your weapons down, they won’t attack!” FWOOM!  You were saying, Whitey?
• Oh, dear!  This neighborhood just keeps getting worse and worse!
• (from inside the apartment) Yutaka, you moron, get your a55 back inside!
• Even this clever counterattack has an unanticipated weakness, as you’ll soon see…
• It’s true that a GSDA special ops team is heading in there… but that isn’t them.
• (click) (dial tone)
• Meanwhile, back at the war room…
• Not sure if that “bozo” is Batou’s pet or not…
• “I can’t drive too fast or else I’ll get caught.”  I’m down to two points on my driver’s license and everyone on the bus smells funny.
• “Whoever can put on the biggest grand-stand lay is gonna get all the marbles.”  But at this point, there might not even be a ring left.
• (cue theme from Jaws)
• It seemed like a good idea at the time…
• S-bomb at eleven o’clock!
• The Major’s thoughts: This couldn’t possibly get any worse! (CRASH TINKLE SMASH!) I was wrong…
• Any landing you can tuck and roll from…
• Yawn.  Please tell me someone at least has a deck of playing cards…
• Ah, Proto.  Not only handsome, but humble too!
• So when all this falderal predictably goes south, Kayabuki becomes the fall girl and the next PM (probably Takekura) comes out smelling like a rose after cleaning up “her” mess…
• Proto has good news… and bad news…
• Wait a sec, where’d she go?  And where’d he go?
• A rare animation goof: Kuze’s shoes briefly change color.
• Change?  Spare change?  Hey, mister, you got any spare change?
• Batou’s thoughts: This couldn’t possibly get any worse! (BOOM!) I was wrong…
• Note that the Tachis have picked up a few tactical points someplace…
• You’ll have to excuse Proto, who’s a little busy right now…
• Meanwhile, Takekura has gotten hungry and ordered a sub… with American cheese and extra meatballs.
• To sum up: The Yankee sub fires a nuke missile, it triggers the plutonium Section 9 smuggled in, white noiseless flash, and it’ll all be blamed on the refugees.  And after the fallout clears, Takekura and his American buttbuddies pull off a coup in more ways than one!
• Aramaki knew he’d be spared because of his position… and who wants to pat down a wrinkly old man?  Now the other two…
• Here… here… here… there!  POING!
• Don’t worry… I’m ooooookay!
• “Proto” as in “prototype”?  And all this time I figured you were Greek!
• With that coordinated attack, Kuze may as well have a neon arrow pointing to him.  But if the Major can find him, that means…
• The first team out seems to have forgotten something.  S-bomb number two!
• They knew the place was a war zone, but they didn’t expect it to be haunted.  Or maybe they aren’t dealing with your average covert ops team.
• Thrills, chills, and spills in the next ep.  You can tell by the theme music.

[matrixman124]

[aspiker]

[scoobdog]

Ah, hell... I can't remember any of this episode.

Could CV pantomime it for us?

[ben0119]

Vlad's diligent, hard work should not go to waste! Newbies, read this thread as you watch the show and prepare for good times!  You can only read Vlad's reviews if you want but please check this stuff out!  It is gold!

Edit - Vlad, you think they should move this to GITS section, maybe?  Slackers... -_-;

Message Edited by ben0119 on 09-28-2009 02:58 PM