Ghost in the Shell

[Jingai]

  Do you think a "ghost" is just a collection of unique memories from a singularly unique

point of view?

   Is a "ghost" a uniquely constant and evolving interpretation of experiences from the larger

outside world?

  Is a "ghost" a fragment or spark of some sort of divine outside force, uniquely granted to each

living sentient organism as it is born, independent of memories?

  Could a machine ever acquire or develop a "ghost" of its own, or will it remain solely a collection

of memories?

[AsianTrix]

Hmm, some good questions there. What I don't get is, is a ghost made up of memories or is it already there to actually collect memorie?

[Jingai]

 That would depend I suppose on what you choose to define as a "ghost".

If it is some sort of spirit or spark of the divine, then I suppose ti would predate the

acquisition of memories, otherwise I suppose it would be something which would be 

formed as a result of the acquisition of memories.

[-Gaynor79-]

The "ghost" is really a theoretical concept used to describe a machine's ability to "think". This is done by the machine going through the possibilities presented by a situation and using certain keys to determine a logical solution. 

In Ghost in the Shell though, it's easy to forget that although most of the characters are cyberized, they still possess a human mind. So basically, the word "soul" has been adapted to become "ghost". This blurring of the concepts is what causes some confusion.

[BloodwerK]

the soul, more or less...

[Foley_is_Good_149]

To my consideration, it's much like being sentient. I will admit, though, that there are several interpretations of what that entails. I think that the awareness of the three states of self (past, present, and future) are essential. In that, I'd argue that advanced A.I., such as the Tachis, would be capable of attaining "ghosts."

[AnonymousPrime]

Agreed, she explains it in the original movie. It's a consciousness, something that makes you "you". 

[AnonymousPrime]

Sorry, for the double post. You forget, Major is not A.I. Originally she is a human, classified by the fact that she has organic brain cells (Even though she has a cyborg body). Now, at the end of the movie she combines with a highly advanced A.I. creating a new being capable of sustaining itself without the grey matter. She is an anamoly living in a fictional world, therefore anything is possible.

[mmmagus1]

I would say that it's a bunch of electrical impulses in the brain for humans and I don't think that a machine could develop one on its own unless it was made smart enough.

[DRC]

Officially, a Ghost is your Soul and Concience literally transformed into digital data.

[mmmagus1]

That would be way too much data. I think that it would probably be hundreds of terabytes. We are talking about the human mind here. Or am I way off?

[DRC]

Try not to think too hard about it. Just accept that it's your soul in digital form as a result of having a cyberbrain.

[Hobosville782]

---

Jingai wrote:

  Do you think a "ghost" is just a collection of unique memories from a singularly unique

point of view?

   Is a "ghost" a uniquely constant and evolving interpretation of experiences from the larger

outside world?

  Is a "ghost" a fragment or spark of some sort of divine outside force, uniquely granted to each

living sentient organism as it is born, independent of memories?

  Could a machine ever acquire or develop a "ghost" of its own, or will it remain solely a collection

of memories?

---

I normally zone out when the tachikomas start talking, but aren't those the exact questions they ask?

I would interpret a ghost as exactly that, though a ghost doesn't simply react to the outside world, 

I think in GITS they do, which I hate to admit cause the tachikomas bug the crap out of me

In reality... I don't have enough knowledge of the subject to make any valuable guesses

Really i'm more interested in posing questions than answering them

In reality, do you believe that a "ghost" as it is in GITS could be transplanted into a mechanical body, or even into another living organism (as in countless scifi films)

[Spindack]

Honestly, in my view it's a metaphor for the human soul (You know: Can technology generate a soul and feel human emotion? Etc.)

But even if it IS about that, I doubt your typical American fan cares about the Buddhist, Shinto, Taoist, and other spiritual/mystical/Eastern culturally religious aspects of anime.

Deep down, most American viewers really just like to "see criminals get beat up by The Major", and whatnot.

[Spindack]

---

AnonymousPrime wrote:
Agreed, she explains it in the original movie. It's a consciousness, something that makes you "you". 

---

In a phenomenological sense: Consciousness + Soul manifested through Cyborg Prosthetic Metahuman Body = Ghost in a Shell.

That would be how I define it. I am a big fan of GitS existential aspects. That was one of it's initial selling points when critics and fans discovered the franchise in the U.S. right around the mid-90s technically. Nothing wrong with discussing philosophy in anime on the web. Outside of Waking Life, Ghost in the Shell is one of the most existential pieces of animation writing there is.

[HikaruxHaruhi]

i think a ghost is a soul that cant pass on until it does wat it needs to do before it passes on to the next world =) and a machine can have ghost =)

[Jingai]

So, even when people are alive, they have souls with unfinished business and can't pass on? Interesting idea.

[ghostrek]

that one subjects of  ghost in the shell

and i have seen moives  this one great

 the ghost=soul shell=body  and soul can be  your personality  or some thing much deeper

what is a soul that is one of the greatst philosophical and theosophical  

the anime, moive , manga and live action(if they make it) has subject wacth it or  read to find out

[HikaruxHaruhi]

but the difference is that they've left their body =)

[Jingai]

So the unfinished business is only of import after they lose the body with which to finish said business?

[XenopusTex]

IMO, the "ghost" is the soul + what some folks call the "Superconscious."

[KindaLikeSpiderman]

In my opinion, unpredictability, novelty, and interpretation are important aspects. It is consciousness in my opinion, but you must be able to account for you as part of a system or solution, and you must be able to organize yourself and behave in a manor of your choosing. The ability to input data into yourself in a supra-ration manner(such as emotional response, or maybe something even higher than that capable only by the unique conditions that arise with being digital and sentient). Essential, you should evolve your own way to systematize experiences and uniquely respond to them. If you can understand the concept of a self and evolve your thinking, as well as address situations in levels beyond rationality, you in my opinion possess consciousness and what might be termed "The Ghost in the Machine", whether it's your human body or a cybernetic or electronic(i.e. digitalized) web-body of sorts. This more or less agrees with the fictionalized concept of the "Ghost" in Ghost in the Shell, and I particularly think the Puppetmaster would like me definition.