Ghost in the Shell

[Kaljinyu]

Now me, I love my ecchi and hentai. Fanservice is the service for me, because I am a fan. So naturally I should welcome wholeheartedly the fanservice Git Sack provides, amirite? I mean, despite the pretentious art house slagfest Kamiyama turned it into, Shirow himself was cool enough to supply fanservice when he could. Major Kusanagi is supposed to be hot, and you're supposed to enjoy that. However, there is a mental block keeping me from finding her even remotely attractive. I applaud Shirow's efforts, but there is a very specific reason why I don't find her attractive at all, and why I wonder why anyone does. It's pretty obvious if you think about it.

However, you can opt out of thinking about it because I'm going to tell you right now. You want it? It's because she's a robot. What's more, everyone's brain is a friggin' hard drive. No one is human. Anyone human is only part of a stand-alone episode and is eventually forgotten altogether. Now I understand Motoko being a clicking beeping android is kind of the point of the series, what with there being some people who believe that robots and people in prosthetic bodies and whatnot aren't really humans. That's "bigoted". What's more, lots of people are leaning on the agreement that if you have a ghost, you count as a human. But here's my point. She has a prosthetic body, which means she can change her gender. Batou keeps joking about it even. And not the insubstantial bootleg way we without prosthetic body technology use with gender reassignment surgeries and hormone treatment, no, she could be just as much a man as Batou, save for her "ghost". But who cares about the ghost? You can't bone someone in their ghost. Besides, her having a "female" ghost has no bearing on how much of a man she could be. That's not entirely true yet for us primitive folk. For us, there's still some meaning, some substance, to original gender. But not for Major Kusanagi, or anyone with a prosthetic body. She might as well be a hologram, or a doll to be more apt. Remember the main computer's hologram on X-Tacles? Did anyone watch X-Tacles? It doesn't matter at all what she looks like or what gender she is, just like the hologram. Her hotness doesn't matter because she's mostly an object.

There's also the issue with this disdain I have for yuri, an element that is prevalent in Git Sack. But that's an entirely different shell to crack, and besided, I know Shirow means well.

[RPD]

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Kaljinyu wrote:

Now me, I love my ecchi and hentai. Fanservice is the service for me, because I am a fan. So naturally I should welcome wholeheartedly the fanservice Git Sack provides, amirite?

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not if you don't want to. i don't watch ghost in the shell for fanservice, i watch it because i think it's a good series. i don't find the major hot, to be honest. i like her because she's a cool character...

[Kaljinyu]

So what kind of women do you find attractive? If you have no appreciation for the female form and call yourself a heterosexual male, you really should consider donating your sex organs to someone who needs them more than you.

[Top_Gun]

Can the flames before I lock this outright.

I'm someone who does find the Major to be very attractive, but the presence of fanservice is just about the last reason on the list of why I count the series as among my favorites; I far prefer the world that the show creates, the philosophical issues that it raises, and the sheer skill of its storytelling to whatever low-cut, no-leg outfit the Major might be sporting (as delicious as said outfits may be). Putting that aside, as for why I do find her attractive, that's simple: because she's female, and a strong and intelligent female to boot. Her choice in prosthetic bodies has always been female, her still-organic brain has always been female, and her personality/"ghost" has always been female. In fact, the show goes out of its way to reinforce this, starting with the questioning by Batou that you mentioned and culminating in the reveal of the Major's past in the second season. From the beginning, she's chosen to remain in a female-model body, and a female-model body of a particular design, as a means of reinforcing her humanity, of reminding herself of the flesh-and-blood girl she once was. It's her anchor to reality in a world that, were she to choose to allow it, could easily swallow her up in an infinite sea of data. I feel like you kind of missed a large chunk of what the series is about.

(Oh, and implied yuri is awesome.)

[Kaljinyu]

Alright alright Christ I wasn't intentionally flaming. I was just wondering what kinds of women he found attractive. Where in the ToS does it say I can't do that?

Protecting my threads is top priority, I only came back here to make sure it doesn't get locked. I'll read the post later.

EDIT: By the way, yuri, implied or explicit, is about as awesome as a Cosmo magazine to a Playboy subscriber. You understand where I'm going with this?

Message Edited by Kaljinyu on 04-24-2009 05:08 PM

[Kaljinyu]

Alright, now I'm ready to look over this.

You seem like the kind of person to neglect the value of fanservice, which makes me sad.

But onto Major Kusanagi. It's her desperate and ignorant attempt at clinging to humanity that makes her so un-hot. Real women don't need to constantly do things to affirm their humanity. But she and everyone around her might as well be spoons or toasters or calculators, because they're more tool than user. The "infinite sea of data" is a major point of the series, and it's not a real appetizing one, IMO. I mean, does anyone like it? For any reason at all? Me, I like my scenarios independently and securely human, not susceptible to some junkie hacker with an agenda he's decided to stretch longer than necessary.

[Top_Gun]

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Kaljinyu wrote:
EDIT: By the way, yuri, implied or explicit, is about as awesome as a Cosmo magazine to a Playboy subscriber. You understand where I'm going with this?

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Not really.

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Kaljinyu wrote:
You seem like the kind of person to neglect the value of fanservice, which makes me sad.

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I appreciate it just fine in its proper context, but I also don't go out of my way to assign it some sort of disproportionate value compared to the main intent of a series. (Unless, of course, the main intent of a certain series is fanservice, which is a whole other story.) GITS is primarily a show that addresses the questions of what being "human" truly means and how the advancement of technology impacts society, along with examining the effects of various social/political phenomena. The fanservice that it uses on occasion is ancillary at best to those purposes.

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Kaljinyu wrote:

But onto Major Kusanagi. It's her desperate and ignorant attempt at clinging to humanity that makes her so un-hot. Real women don't need to constantly do things to affirm their humanity. But she and everyone around her might as well be spoons or toasters or calculators, because they're more tool than user. The "infinite sea of data" is a major point of the series, and it's not a real appetizing one, IMO. I mean, does anyone like it? For any reason at all? Me, I like my scenarios independently and securely human, not susceptible to some junkie hacker with an agenda he's decided to stretch longer than necessary.

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First off, Motoko isn't a "real woman" either in her existence as a fictional character or within the confines of the show's universe...and the latter is kind of the whole point of what I said above. There's nothing "ignorant" about what she does; it really is the only thing that can keep her grounded. Her physical structure is that of a biological brain in a mechanical body, and her ghost spends so much time diving the Net (in what one can quite literally call an out-of-body experience), even that original connection has to seem incredibly tenuous to her; this is reinforced all the more by what happens to her at the end of the first season. You actually got it exactly right with the "more tool than user" line, since I think that's exactly what drives many of Motoko's thoughts and actions. From her own viewpoint, there really isn't any concrete proof that she exists as a human being...memories can be overwritten or falsified, and as someone pointed out in the second season, one can't exactly see one's own braincase. If you can put yourself in that sort of situation, the implications can be rather overwhelming.

And secondly, it doesn't really matter whether or not people in that universe like the "infinite sea of data"...that's the way their society has evolved, and for better or worse, they're stuck with it. The negative implications you mentioned are acknowledged loud and clear by the show itself, and are really the core of its commentary on technology shaping society. There are certainly many advantages that come part and parcel with those disadvantages, but that doesn't necessarily make the latter any less disconcerting. The only way to avoid them on a personal level would probably be to completely forgo cyberization in the first place, which carries its own consequences.

[layrebecca]

I'm a heterosexual woman and I think the Major is absolutely sexually arousing.  Just think, she has the option to swap out her cyborg body, to choose a male one and she doesn't.  I think it's great.  The creators must have had a thing for dominatrixes.  Why else would they allow a woman (not to mention a japanese woman) to be in a position of extreme power,strength, intelligence, and control.  This character is highly charasmatic and a great role model for girls.

[RPD]

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Kaljinyu wrote:

So what kind of women do you find attractive?

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anime women? julia from cowboy bebop, saya from blood†, and wedy from death note... a few examples. i see kusanagi not as "fanservice", regardless of some of her attire, but as the more-than-capable leader of section nine...

[NoDanico]

I hear what your saying and think it is a valid argument. The answer that most nerdy otaku would give is "she's a super ninja robot woman".

On side like to think that she IS an object. I think it's comparable to silicone injected porn-stars. She appears as a hot ninja and that just fine for many people. Some like to over-think it and get off on the fact that she is a robot and that's OK too.

Those porn-stars aren't what they once were, what they were born as, but how many men and women get their rocks off on their IMAGE?That's all that matters for them. See seems hot, therefore she is.

 On the other hand, from a unaesthetic standpoint, since she IS a cyborg she is a sexy. "Her hotness doesn't matter because she's mostly an object."  The fact that she IS an object makes her hot. People with a fetish for that kind of thing want her to be.

And then their is the dominating, powerful woman. This is already been covered very well by top_gun and layrebecca so I won't bother discussing it.

All that said, I would like to reiterate the point that the show is not primarily "fan-service" driven. When the major has appears nude, it wasn't so much for "oh my godz she is nudz!!1!". The one exception to this is the lesbian scene in the manga. Which reminds me, sexuality and gender was addressed in the original comic. It's kinda hard to explain but basically because men and women have different parts, they cannot have the same experiences or sensations. I know that seems rudimentary and almost laughable, but  as I said It's not easy to explain. Sorry I didn't mean to talk so long.

[Mormegil84]

I think it's because she has nice boobs.

[LatinoGangsta32]

i really dont kno either!! she is not all that pretty...i mean she is mad cool but i dont see the hotness in her

[RPD]

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LatinoGangsta32 wrote:
i really dont kno either!! she is not all that pretty...i mean she is mad cool but i dont see the hotness in her

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i think that's part of it. she's almost too awesome as a leader and soldier to be thought of as hot...

[Martinman]

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RPD wrote:

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LatinoGangsta32 wrote:
i really dont kno either!! she is not all that pretty...i mean she is mad cool but i dont see the hotness in her

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i think that's part of it. she's almost too awesome as a leader and soldier to be thought of as hot...

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This.  I feel the same way about Balsa from Moribito too.

[LatinoGangsta32]

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RPD wrote:

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LatinoGangsta32 wrote:
i really dont kno either!! she is not all that pretty...i mean she is mad cool but i dont see the hotness in her

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i think that's part of it. she's almost too awesome as a leader and soldier to be thought of as hot...

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i see her more as a man ya kno

[RPD]

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Martinman wrote:

This.  I feel the same way about Balsa from Moribito too.

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it's not that i don't think she's actrative, like physically, but i just don't view her that way. she's much more than eye candy...

[arrancar88]

not all the characters are full cyborgs like togusa so people are still roughly human. i'm not sure i understand your agrument that she is not hot because she can swap bodies. she is hot because of the one she has. she is also intelligent and fierce which makes her an awesome character. (and yes i watched x-tacles)

[Sieg67]

I like the major though for her character and not for her looks. 

Let's take a good look  at what the human body really is.  The outside may be attractive but if you think about what's on the inside(and I don't mean personality) you'll be less likely to find anyone attractive.  Organs, guts, blood, bone and puss.  It's not something people like to think about.  We're basically machines ourselves and can be compared to an gasoline engine.  I could explain but I don't really want to unless you have to ask.

 If your argument is that anybody with a prosthetic body can change genders, we can also say the same for bodies of flesh and blood.

Genders can be changed in the world we live in today.  Hormone treatment and operation.  This gives people the appearance of the opposite gender but few consider them to be the real deal and wont find them sexual appealing.

EDIT: Friggen typos.

Message Edited by Sieg67 on 05-08-2009 01:24 PM

[Donnie420paul]

well reguardless what u say.....we are humans and humans respond to external looks and 1st impressions.....i think shes hot, she could beat up an army, and she smart besides.....shes a triple threat

Message Edited by Donnie420paul on 05-13-2009 07:36 PM (didnt finish my sentance)

Message Edited by Donnie420paul on 05-13-2009 07:37 PM

[PsyFy]

I totally 100% agree with Donnie420paul on this. Humans are animals and we have animal instincts, especially males. We see something with boobs and a relatively nice looking vajayjay and we automatically go into "primal instinct mode". And those of you out there saying that you don't think Motoko is hot, you're only lying to yourself and your hammer.

Message Edited by PsyFy on 05-14-2009 08:41 AM

[Tnvlsrule]

I agree with most of this thread.  However, I think the point Kaljinyu was trying to make was that humans are naturally attracted to other humans that they can have sex with and make babies with.  Sorry to be so blunt, but the major is just a mind and nothing more.  Her body doesn't mean anything.  I never really got anything from the fanservice (of the sexual nature) anyway, though.  I just like the show because it's so awesome in other ways.  I never saw the major as hot.

[Top_Gun]

I'd argue that her body means a whole lot, at least from the visual standpoint (and the tactile too, if that creepy rich dude from Cash Eye was any indication). From a distance, the Major appears no different than any true flesh-and-blood human in her world, unlike someone like Batou or Borma. Since human attraction is first and foremost based on visual appearance, I think it's only natural to view the Major as sexually attractive in that sense.

[DRC]

Her character is classified among female anime characters as the "Femme Fatal". A dangerous and deadly woman who uses her stunning looks as just another weapon in her arsenal. Often has a cold attitude and demeanor, usually caused by some traumatic event from their past. This attitude gives them few problems with carrying out assassinations or orders in general. In Motoko's situation, she barely survived as one of two survivors from a plane crash when she was only 6 years old. Her parents were dead, and she can't even remember what her name was as a result of struggling just to stay alive, and then going through the learning and rehabilitation process of having to use a fully prosthetic body. It is theorized that her brain wasn't able to give her proper emotional learning experience of going through puberty since she just had to switch out of bodies.

Aside from the hot body (which is a mass-produced model from 2027, modified with illegal enhancements granted by the government,) I really like her attitude. I don't care if she's arrogant and bossy. With her traumatic past and military experience, it's completely justified. She knows what she's doing because she knows what she's doing. I love watching her kick *** in hand to hand combat as well. Beneath the cold exterior is a soft side as well. You could say that Motoko is a Tsundere if you wanted.

I also love her voice. Mary Elizabeth McGlynn is SO ****ING HOT! Her voice arouses me! With a few exceptions, She often always plays a powerful-minded woman with an increadibly hot body... in particular, huge breasts. Julia from Cowboy Bebop, Helba from .Hack, Jagura from Wolf's Rain, Jura from Vandread, Cornelia from Code Geass, Hild (The Devil herself) from Ah My Goddes, Jo Carol Brane from Blackjack the Movie, Hot Ice Hilda from Outlaw Star, Kurenai from Naruto (despite not getitng much exposure across the whole series), and others.

I'm still not entirely certain if I want to go so far as to say I support the idea of shipping Batou and Motoko together. I like how thier relationship stands in the series right now. However, being the right physical build to Cosplay as Batou (and the knowledge to create prosthetic costume props out of metal,) really helps out with my own love for her character. People have told me they've never seen a better Batou in their entire lives as con-goers. Anyone who cosplays as Motoko automatically gets my respect as well.

I just love everything about Motoko.

[22-7ForbidKnowledge]

I dunno who said it best but I hurd it in here before... "I'D plow the Major like a stoney field!!" YeYeah!!!    

I LoL  when the Major said that if she kept teasein the old DuDe he would go into Cardiac Arrest.. LoL

[TexVinny]

Reading this forum there appears to be a lot of love for The Major. I don’t see her as a female superhero, I see her as a superhero who is a female. In other words, she has a job to do as any person, but she is a female. Most super heroes have a power and a cause, The Major got to her position using her brain and because she is the best at what she does. For me, there is more of a reality to the sci fi story line then others, and that really draws me in to the GITS story. No magic powers and spells junk.

DRC  – you’re right, that plane crash did mess up her head and her life and sent her on the journey that is her life story. I believe The Major has a death wish from this. I don’t think she cares to live, but is too intelligent to simply give up in life. That is why I see her going into the situations with a no holds barred attitude. To her it doesn’t matter. If she doesn’t come out of the situation she doesn’t have to live with the memory if that plane crash and losing her love ones forever.  One day I should post on here my own short story on that final approach and plane crash. I’ll make you ball your eyes out.

Mormegil84 – yes in deed, she has very nice boobs!  God, I hope they do her some justice in 2011. Not just a T+A movie. This lady is just to in depth for a dumb T+A movie. And it should be an R rated movie. This story line is for adults, not kids. That means nice booby shots!!!

Top_Gun – As long as we have highlight films, the K man will always live!