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ChatManMat
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Registered: 08-22-2006
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48716228


doxiedachsie wrote:
:smileyindifferent: Well, It might explain some things, but it is not canon.

  Its definitely a nice idea.  Here is an interesting observation, though.  Midoriko resides in the limestone cave in the demon slayers village.  She was, in life, an amazingly powerful priestess, and maybe, just maybe was helped by none other than Kirara.  However, I would think that if Kikyo was the reincarnation of Midoriko, that Kirara would have stayed with Kikyo, and not Sango's family.

 

Also, the Shikon Jewel was formed where Midoriko expelled it from her stomach.  She still, however has the power to keep anyone she wants from entering the cave; if she can keep people out of the cave, couldn't she have kept the Shikon Jewel from leaving the cave?  This would have eliminated the need for Kikyo's involvement, and would have eliminated the risk of the jewel falling into the hands of those who would corrupt it.

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ChatManMat: Proudly ranking at the speed of evolution since 06 :smileyvery-happy:

Watch this space for a link to the "Inuyasha 3 Word story," in document form, in it's entirety... Yep, it may take a couple months, but I'm putting it together all in one place, in honor of those who helped make it as popular as it was!

Thanks to Crushrose for helping me with this new and improved sig2.0!

"He who laughs last took the longest to get the joke." -Me

"Will you bear my children?" -Miroku, Inuyasha

""We stand in awe before that which cannot be seen. And we respect with every fey which cannot be explained" -Rukia, Bleach

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." -Yoda, Star Wars TESB
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

[ Edited ]

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48718003


ChatManMat wrote:

doxiedachsie wrote:
:smileyindifferent: Well, It might explain some things, but it is not canon.

Its definitely a nice idea. Here is an interesting observation, though. Midoriko resides in the limestone cave in the demon slayers village. She was, in life, an amazingly powerful priestess, and maybe, just maybe was helped by none other than Kirara. However, I would think that if Kikyo was the reincarnation of Midoriko, that Kirara would have stayed with Kikyo, and not Sango's family.

Also, the Shikon Jewel was formed where Midoriko expelled it from her stomach. She still, however has the power to keep anyone she wants from entering the cave; if she can keep people out of the cave, couldn't she have kept the Shikon Jewel from leaving the cave? This would have eliminated the need for Kikyo's involvement, and would have eliminated the risk of the jewel falling into the hands of those who would corrupt it.


OK. The episode has come & gone. I guess we can show everyone some really good points. About Kirara, I think she would have had to be able to find Kikyo & recognize her as the reincarnation (which I do not think she was, based on events in the manga that happened after the "end" of the anime).

 

My reason to eliminate Kirara is different. Both the anime & the manga show Kirara being overwhelmed by the Magatsuhi amalgam that finally killed Midoriko. If Kirara were really by her side then, would not the same thing have happened? The alternative is for Kirara to abandon Midoriko. She would never do that. Hence, I can't believe that Kirara was once Midoriko's companion, however romantic that thought is.

 

If Midoriko had a demon aide, I imagine that it would be a powerful demon with a soul that apparently needed little or no purification from her. A warrior like herself. A general among demons. Someone who lived to protect humans. Anyone like that come to mind? Remember, this is speculation based on the premise that Midoriko needed / wanted a companion, which in itself may be a stretch. Perhaps all that occurred was a random meeting that resulted in the awakening of sentiments in the Demon that led to an affinity for humans & a desire to protect them (could that be the true nature of Midoriko's "purification" ).

 

Both the manga & anime agree that the jewel's presence in the cave is enough to reawaken the demon spirits that Midoriko has imprisoned there. She would not want it in the cave.

 

The fact that Midoriko's soul is split into multiple fragments (like the jewel is presently) means that pieces of her soul can be anywhere. That is where my wild speculations come in.

 

As for Midoriko's fragmented soul, I speculate that parts of it were reincarnated into various different people.

 

What if that "something extra" that Kagome's soul seems to possess actually came from Midoriko? That would explain its immense size & the fact that Kagome's powers seem so much stronger than Kikyo's, what little of them she is able to call up.

 

What if all of the four human companions each inherited a bit or aspect of Midoriko's soul? After all, it was Kagome who recognized the value of each of the companions and who united them & saved them from loneliness when no one else would have done so.

 

Perhaps that is the Destiny that drew them together. Perhaps that is part of the bond that seemed to exist between Inuyasha & Kagome even before they met. Kagome was born with the jewel inside her. Her family was guarded & protected by the Goshinbuko tree for ages. It was the same tree that preserved Inuyasha while spellbound. It was also old enough to have been a sapling during Midoriko's lifetime. Also, it took Kagome to draw Tessaiga from its place & give it to Inuyasha.

 

Maybe the human half of Inuyasha's soul came from Midoriko. That would explain his incredible strength of will & courage when in human form.

 

Maybe Miroku's incredible capacity for absorbing knowledge and his ability to observe & deduce came from inheriting that aspect of Midoriko's soul.

 

Maybe Sango's intense ability to love, & use that love to pass through trial after trial with her brother, came from Midoriko.

 

If so, then Midoriko had been working for centuries, even millenia, to reunite her soul & create the power it would take to combat the evil within the jewel.

 

The odd-man-out was Sesshomaru; and he was drawn into the fray by Tenseiga and his father's wish that he be reconciled with his brother. Perhaps the old general had a clairvoyant premonition that his sons would be tied into the final battle to decide the destiny of the world; or, like Kaede so many years later, he recognized something in one of his sons that needed to be both protected & fostered, a piece of the soul he had met once before. . .

 

We know so little about the living Midoriko, or Inuyasha's father for that matter. It seems likely that they were contemporaries, or that their lives overlapped. The fact that there are "good" demons in the world (angels?) means that it was possible for the natural & the supernatural to unite for the good of all.

 

Could they have met? Yes. 

 

Did they meet? Who knows? It was never mentioned in canon, or anywhere else.

 

The fact that the events of so many centuries ago, and so many centuries to come, converge into the events of the story implies that there was come kind of cosmic connection that had been established then and which was to play out over time. The creation of the great evil demon, the creation of Naraku; Midoriko as a samurai-priestess wielding a sword, the bond between the halfling warrior & the almost-priestess united by a sword, prayer beads, a sacred tree, and the Shikon no Tama. All of these are history replaying itself, maybe in the hope of getting it right, this time?

 

Message Edited by doxiedachsie on 03-08-2009 05:37 PM

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48725072

On a lighter note, did anyone notice that either Richard Cox flubbed a line, or the screenwriter had a hangover that day?  When Inuyasha is looking at Midoriko, he says "she has it in her jaws". 

 

The correct line should have been "it has her in its jaws".

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48714159

Actually, I'm closer to calling Tessaiga a person.  It/he does seem to be alive, having been forged using Inuyasha's father's fang & therefore containing his DNA.  Also, have you noticed the way it reacts to the thoughts of the person holding it?  Yes, you're right about poor Inuyasha.  I've always thought that that necklace he is stuck wearing reminded me of the old Roman slave collars.  The poor boy is indentured to his fate as a savior of the earth.  Destiny will not let him turn the role down.

 

As for Kikyo, she made the collar for him and, in death, seems to have no more regard for him than as for a possession she could not take with her beyond the grave.  Of course, we know that will change, but how & when is a big spoiler.

 

I just had to add a little something to this answer to ChatMan.  The obvious reference for Inuyasha's necklace is its resemblance to a dog collar.   That is probably some Takahashi humor.  It sort of makes the "great & terrible warrior" look like a possession, little more than a pet.  And that is exactly the accusation that gets thrown at him by almost every foe he meets in battle.

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crushrose
Posts: 80,972
Registered: 06-30-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48726023

I wish they would've shown more of Midoriku's life and how she lived with the

villiger's or how she would battle the demons...although she would resemble

Kikyo but with greater power's..Only I do still wonder if Kirara was with her

in a later truthfull way



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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to crushrose - Message ID#: 48731453

Both Kirara & Myoga's hallucination were filler elements only found in the anime.  To believe Kirara was there is also to believe that Inuyasha was fully Midoriko's reincarnation.  While it is possible to speculate that he got a small part of her soul, he is definitely not her reincarnation.

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crushrose
Posts: 80,972
Registered: 06-30-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48731953

yeah thats true and one thing is we don't want a filler:smileywink:



Kei Pirate
ChatManMat
Posts: 4,939
Registered: 08-22-2006
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48725072

OK. The episode has come & gone. I guess we can show everyone some really good points. About Kirara, I think she would have had to be able to find Kikyo & recognize her as the reincarnation (which I do not think she was, based on events in the manga that happened after the "end" of the anime).

 

- Good point.  Kirara would have to recognize Kikyo as a reincarnation.  I agree with you though.  Even based on the anime alone, I know for sure that Kikyo is not Midoriko's reincarnation, and for more than one reason.  Kagome is undeniably a reincarnation of Kikyo; at first, Inuyasha thinks that Kagome is Kikyo because they look and smell similar.  Kagome seems to possess the same abilities a Kikyo, as well, at least to some extent; true, there are some powers that Kikyo possesses that we see later in the series SPOILER - for instance, she erects the tree in "Stampede of the Countless Demon Rats - END SPOILER that Kagome doesn't possess, but she most likely would be able to do this at some point in the future.  If this is any indication, it seems likely that a reincarnation would have the same abilities as their predecessor.

 

Therefore, a reincarnation of Midoriko should be able to purify the souls of a demon, rendering them harmless.  Neither Kikyo nor Kagome have that ability; they can purify the jewel/ jewel shards, but they can't purify the soul of a demon.  If Kikyo had that ability, she could have just purified Inuyasha's soul instead of pinning him to the tree and putting him under a spell.  Here is the real nail in the proverbial coffin, though.   Kagome is Kikyo's reincarnation not simply because she resembles and smells similar to Kikyo, but because she has Kikyo's soul.  When Urasue resurrected Kikyo, she couldn't do it without Kagome because, and I quote, "the soul has already been reincarnated in another body..."  So you have to have the soul of someone to be their reincarnation.  The fact is that Midoriko's soul is still battling with the demon's soul inside the sacred jewel.  This means that she cannot have a reincarnation, because we know for a fact that her soul resides in the jewel, not in another body.

 

My reason to eliminate Kirara is different. Both the anime & the manga show Kirara being overwhelmed by the Magatsuhi amalgam that finally killed Midoriko. If Kirara were really by her side then, would not the same thing have happened? The alternative is for Kirara to abandon Midoriko. She would never do that. Hence, I can't believe that Kirara was once Midoriko's companion, however romantic that thought is.

 

- Great point there.  Kirara would never have abandoned Midoriko. (I agree that Kirara wasn't Midoriko's companion, but I just decided to play devil's advocate there, is all; I mean, it is theoretically possible, just not likely.)  Actually, I have no facts to base this on, its just speculation, but I think they show Kirara there to be symbolic of the type of companion Midoriko may have had if she did in fact have someone helping her, and that is speaks more to the qualities that are present in Kirara than as an indication of Kirara being Midoriko's vassal in the past.  Kirara is brave, intelligent, loving, and protective of those she cares for.  If Midoriko needed or desired a companion, her companion would probably have had these same qualities, and Kirara's relationship with Sango, at this point, is similar to that relationship.

 

If Midoriko had a demon aide, I imagine that it would be a powerful demon with a soul that apparently needed little or no purification from her. A warrior like herself. A general among demons. Someone who lived to protect humans. Anyone like that come to mind? Remember, this is speculation based on the premise that Midoriko needed / wanted a companion, which in itself may be a stretch. Perhaps all that occurred was a random meeting that resulted in the awakening of sentiments in the Demon that led to an affinity for humans & a desire to protect them (could that be the true nature of Midoriko's "purification" ).

 

- ::jaw drops:: OMG, Inupapa and Midoriko?!  That would be one incredible duo.  Batman and Robin, eat your heart out!  I know its just speculation, but that is an awe inspiring thought!

 

Both the manga & anime agree that the jewel's presence in the cave is enough to reawaken the demon spirits that Midoriko has imprisoned there. She would not want it in the cave.

 

- Yes, you're right.  :smileyhappy: (It had been a while since I watched that episode.)  I completely forgot about the jewel shard that Myoga brought in the cave, and that it reawakened the demon spirits.  My bad!  Yeah, she definitely would not want to keep it in the cave under those conditions.

 

The fact that Midoriko's soul is split into multiple fragments (like the jewel is presently) means that pieces of her soul can be anywhere. That is where my wild speculations come in.

 

As for Midoriko's fragmented soul, I speculate that parts of it were reincarnated into various different people.

 

What if that "something extra" that Kagome's soul seems to possess actually came from Midoriko? That would explain its immense size & the fact that Kagome's powers seem so much stronger than Kikyo's, what little of them she is able to call up.

 

What if all of the four human companions each inherited a bit or aspect of Midoriko's soul? After all, it was Kagome who recognized the value of each of the companions and who united them & saved them from loneliness when no one else would have done so.

 

 - I like this idea.  Indeed, when they were talking about the four souls that make up the Shikon No Tama, Aramitama (courage), Nigimitama (friendship), Kushimitama (wisdom) and Sakimitama (love), it is the gang we see pictures of representing each soul.

 

Perhaps that is the Destiny that drew them together. Perhaps that is part of the bond that seemed to exist between Inuyasha & Kagome even before they met. Kagome was born with the jewel inside her. Her family was guarded & protected by the Goshinbuko tree for ages. It was the same tree that preserved Inuyasha while spellbound. It was also old enough to have been a sapling during Midoriko's lifetime. Also, it took Kagome to draw Tessaiga from its place & give it to Inuyasha.

 

Maybe the human half of Inuyasha's soul came from Midoriko. That would explain his incredible strength of will & courage when in human form.

 

Maybe Miroku's incredible capacity for absorbing knowledge and his ability to observe & deduce came from inheriting that aspect of Midoriko's soul.

 

Maybe Sango's intense ability to love, & use that love to pass through trial after trial with her brother, came from Midoriko.

 

If so, then Midoriko had been working for centuries, even millenia, to reunite her soul & create the power it would take to combat the evil within the jewel.

 

The odd-man-out was Sesshomaru; and he was drawn into the fray by Tenseiga and his father's wish that he be reconciled with his brother. Perhaps the old general had a clairvoyant premonition that his sons would be tied into the final battle to decide the destiny of the world; or, like Kaede so many years later, he recognized something in one of his sons that needed to be both protected & fostered, a piece of the soul he had met once before. . .

 

We know so little about the living Midoriko, or Inuyasha's father for that matter. It seems likely that they were contemporaries, or that their lives overlapped. The fact that there are "good" demons in the world (angels?) means that it was possible for the natural & the supernatural to unite for the good of all.

 

-Especially given the lifespan of demons!

 

Could they have met? Yes. 

 

Did they meet? Who knows? It was never mentioned in canon, or anywhere else.

 

-Perhaps only Takahashi, and even she may not know either (she may not have considered it).

 

The fact that the events of so many centuries ago, and so many centuries to come, converge into the events of the story implies that there was come kind of cosmic connection that had been established then and which was to play out over time. The creation of the great evil demon, the creation of Naraku; Midoriko as a samurai-priestess wielding a sword, the bond between the halfling warrior & the almost-priestess united by a sword, prayer beads, a sacred tree, and the Shikon no Tama. All of these are history replaying itself, maybe in the hope of getting it right, this time?

 


 

Outstanding, well thought out observations, doxie!  I love the comparisons of the main characters attributes to Midoriko's soul.  It really does seem like it may be history repeating itself and Midoriko, realizing this, trying to take steps to provide for a better outcome than before!

 

Well have a nice night, all!

My ASMB home
ChatManMat: Proudly ranking at the speed of evolution since 06 :smileyvery-happy:

Watch this space for a link to the "Inuyasha 3 Word story," in document form, in it's entirety... Yep, it may take a couple months, but I'm putting it together all in one place, in honor of those who helped make it as popular as it was!

Thanks to Crushrose for helping me with this new and improved sig2.0!

"He who laughs last took the longest to get the joke." -Me

"Will you bear my children?" -Miroku, Inuyasha

""We stand in awe before that which cannot be seen. And we respect with every fey which cannot be explained" -Rukia, Bleach

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." -Yoda, Star Wars TESB
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48733232


ChatManMat wrote:
OK. The episode has come & gone. I guess we can show everyone some really good points. About Kirara, I think she would have had to be able to find Kikyo & recognize her as the reincarnation (which I do not think she was, based on events in the manga that happened after the "end" of the anime).

 

- Good point.  Kirara would have to recognize Kikyo as a reincarnation.  I agree with you though.  Even based on the anime alone, I know for sure that Kikyo is not Midoriko's reincarnation, and for more than one reason.  Kagome is undeniably a reincarnation of Kikyo; at first, Inuyasha thinks that Kagome is Kikyo because they look and smell similar.  Kagome seems to possess the same abilities a Kikyo, as well, at least to some extent; true, there are some powers that Kikyo possesses that we see later in the series SPOILER - for instance, she erects the tree in "Stampede of the Countless Demon Rats - END SPOILER that Kagome doesn't possess, but she most likely would be able to do this at some point in the future.  If this is any indication, it seems likely that a reincarnation would have the same abilities as their predecessor.

 

I thought about comparing Kagome's powers to Kikyo's.  It turns out that Kagome does have powers that Kikyo lacks & at least one of them is comparable to Midoriko's abilities.   SPOILER -   In the last anime episode, Kagome purified "demon" Inuyasha when he was overcome by the feedback of the oni while trying to use the jewel shard on Tessaiga to escape from its belly.  Kagome did not touch Tessaiga or the shard.  She held on to Inuyasha.  She purified him & nothing else.  He, in turn, purified the jewel through Tessaiga.  What was left was a few awe-inspiring moments of a full-demon, fully in control, and complete with his own soul, Inuyasha.  The wish he wanted to make on the Shikon jewel had come true; and it was solely due to his bond with Kagome, nothing else.  As I mentioned in my speculation about Midoriko, her purification of demons may have been like this.  She removed the evil.  That's all.  The manga implies this more than the anime.  Also, Kagome, in the manga, learned how to shoot a sacred arrow through an obstacle to its intended target.  That means she could shoot at Inuyasha & have the arrow go through him without harm to the target behind him.  Kikyo never showed this ability.   - END SPOILER  

 

Therefore, a reincarnation of Midoriko should be able to purify the souls of a demon, rendering them harmless.  Neither Kikyo nor Kagome have that ability; they can purify the jewel/ jewel shards, but they can't purify the soul of a demon.  If Kikyo had that ability, she could have just purified Inuyasha's soul instead of pinning him to the tree and putting him under a spell.  Here is the real nail in the proverbial coffin, though.   Kagome is Kikyo's reincarnation not simply because she resembles and smells similar to Kikyo, but because she has Kikyo's soul.  When Urasue resurrected Kikyo, she couldn't do it without Kagome because, and I quote, "the soul has already been reincarnated in another body..."  So you have to have the soul of someone to be their reincarnation.  The fact is that Midoriko's soul is still battling with the demon's soul inside the sacred jewel.  This means that she cannot have a reincarnation, because we know for a fact that her soul resides in the jewel, not in another body.

 

> Kagome had been in contact with the jewel her entire life.  That means she had Midoriko's soul inside her since before her birth.  It's not a big stretch to imagine her getting more of Midoriko than just the part of her in the jewel.  SPOILER - In the manga, she & Naraku were supposed to replace Midoriko & Magatsuhi inside the jewel.  - END SPOILER

 

Part of Midoriko's soul is still inside the cave, maintaining the barrier.  To me, that means she fractured her soul when she created the jewel.  That is why I can speculate that pieces or aspects of her soul were able to transmigrate to new bodies. 

 

Also, the timing from Midoriko's to Inuyasha's time is between 700 & 300 years.  500 years is right in the middle & is equal to the amount of time it took for Kikyo's soul to return.  The manga says that Inuyasha's father was an aging demon (i.e., past his prime).  If (and I say IF) he ever met Midoriko, it would have been either as a young demon or during his prime, and definitely before Sesshomaru was born.  Therefore, we have no living memory or record of those events.  However, there are so many coincidences here that this speculation is as valid as any.

 

It would explain Father's sentiments.  It would explain his almost psychic prescience about his children's futures.  And it would possibly explain his ability to hold on to his domain.  A benevolent ruler would attract many willing followers.

 

My reason to eliminate Kirara is different. Both the anime & the manga show Kirara being overwhelmed by the Magatsuhi amalgam that finally killed Midoriko. If Kirara were really by her side then, would not the same thing have happened? The alternative is for Kirara to abandon Midoriko. She would never do that. Hence, I can't believe that Kirara was once Midoriko's companion, however romantic that thought is.

 

- Great point there.  Kirara would never have abandoned Midoriko. (I agree that Kirara wasn't Midoriko's companion, but I just decided to play devil's advocate there, is all; I mean, it is theoretically possible, just not likely.)  Actually, I have no facts to base this on, its just speculation, but I think they show Kirara there to be symbolic of the type of companion Midoriko may have had if she did in fact have someone helping her, and that is speaks more to the qualities that are present in Kirara than as an indication of Kirara being Midoriko's vassal in the past.  Kirara is brave, intelligent, loving, and protective of those she cares for.  If Midoriko needed or desired a companion, her companion would probably have had these same qualities, and Kirara's relationship with Sango, at this point, is similar to that relationship.

 

If Midoriko had a demon aide, I imagine that it would be a powerful demon with a soul that apparently needed little or no purification from her. A warrior like herself. A general among demons. Someone who lived to protect humans. Anyone like that come to mind? Remember, this is speculation based on the premise that Midoriko needed / wanted a companion, which in itself may be a stretch. Perhaps all that occurred was a random meeting that resulted in the awakening of sentiments in the Demon that led to an affinity for humans & a desire to protect them (could that be the true nature of Midoriko's "purification" ).

 

- ::jaw drops:: OMG, Inupapa and Midoriko?!  That would be one incredible duo.  Batman and Robin, eat your heart out!  I know its just speculation, but that is an awe inspiring thought!

 

Both the manga & anime agree that the jewel's presence in the cave is enough to reawaken the demon spirits that Midoriko has imprisoned there. She would not want it in the cave.

 

- Yes, you're right.  :smileyhappy: (It had been a while since I watched that episode.)  I completely forgot about the jewel shard that Myoga brought in the cave, and that it reawakened the demon spirits.  My bad!  Yeah, she definitely would not want to keep it in the cave under those conditions.

 

The fact that Midoriko's soul is split into multiple fragments (like the jewel is presently) means that pieces of her soul can be anywhere. That is where my wild speculations come in.

 

As for Midoriko's fragmented soul, I speculate that parts of it were reincarnated into various different people.

 

What if that "something extra" that Kagome's soul seems to possess actually came from Midoriko? That would explain its immense size & the fact that Kagome's powers seem so much stronger than Kikyo's, what little of them she is able to call up.

 

What if all of the four human companions each inherited a bit or aspect of Midoriko's soul? After all, it was Kagome who recognized the value of each of the companions and who united them & saved them from loneliness when no one else would have done so.

 

 - I like this idea.  Indeed, when they were talking about the four souls that make up the Shikon No Tama, Aramitama (courage), Nigimitama (friendship), Kushimitama (wisdom) and Sakimitama (love), it is the gang we see pictures of representing each soul.

 

> You're right.  It also explains the composition of the gang.  One for each soul, plus Shippo reflecting Kagome's aspect (friendship) from the world of the demons (Midoriko's purification?), and Kagome doing double duty as the magnet that brings them together.  All of them divided into 2 couples that bond closely as soul mates, and later, as physical mates.  This is another reason that I think Kagome got something extra from Midoriko.

 

Perhaps that is the Destiny that drew them together. Perhaps that is part of the bond that seemed to exist between Inuyasha & Kagome even before they met. Kagome was born with the jewel inside her.   Her family was guarded & protected by the Goshinbuko tree for ages. It was the same tree that preserved Inuyasha while spellbound. It was also old enough to have been a sapling during Midoriko's lifetime. Also, it took Kagome to draw Tessaiga from its place & give it to Inuyasha.

 

Maybe the human half of Inuyasha's soul came from Midoriko. That would explain his incredible strength of will & courage when in human form.

 

Maybe Miroku's incredible capacity for absorbing knowledge and his ability to observe & deduce came from inheriting that aspect of Midoriko's soul.

 

Maybe Sango's intense ability to love, & use that love to pass through trial after trial with her brother, came from Midoriko.

 

If so, then Midoriko had been working for centuries, even millenia, to reunite her soul & create the power it would take to combat the evil within the jewel.

 

The odd-man-out was Sesshomaru; and he was drawn into the fray by Tenseiga and his father's wish that he be reconciled with his brother. Perhaps the old general had a clairvoyant premonition that his sons would be tied into the final battle to decide the destiny of the world; or, like Kaede so many years later, he recognized something in one of his sons that needed to be both protected & fostered, a piece of the soul he had met once before. . .

 

We know so little about the living Midoriko, or Inuyasha's father for that matter. It seems likely that they were contemporaries, or that their lives overlapped. The fact that there are "good" demons in the world (angels?) means that it was possible for the natural & the supernatural to unite for the good of all.

 

-Especially given the lifespan of demons!

 

Could they have met? Yes. 

 

Did they meet? Who knows? It was never mentioned in canon, or anywhere else.

 

-Perhaps only Takahashi, and even she may not know either (she may not have considered it).

 

The fact that the events of so many centuries ago, and so many centuries to come, converge into the events of the story implies that there was come kind of cosmic connection that had been established then and which was to play out over time. The creation of the great evil demon, the creation of Naraku; Midoriko as a samurai-priestess wielding a sword, the bond between the halfling warrior & the almost-priestess united by a sword, prayer beads, a sacred tree, and the Shikon no Tama. All of these are history replaying itself, maybe in the hope of getting it right, this time?


Outstanding, well thought out observations, doxie!  I love the comparisons of the main characters attributes to Midoriko's soul.  It really does seem like it may be history repeating itself and Midoriko, realizing this, trying to take steps to provide for a better outcome than before!

 

Well have a nice night, all!


You made some really, really great points.  I just felt I had to explain my reasons for my conclusions a little more thoroughly to account for them.  It's great to have a discussion with a contrasting opinion based on keen observations.  Keep up the thoughtful, challenging work!

 

kienasai! eien ni!
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ChatManMat
Posts: 4,939
Registered: 08-22-2006
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48736588


doxiedachsie wrote:

 

I thought about comparing Kagome's powers to Kikyo's.  It turns out that Kagome does have powers that Kikyo lacks & at least one of them is comparable to Midoriko's abilities.   SPOILER -   In the last anime episode, Kagome purified "demon" Inuyasha when he was overcome by the feedback of the oni while trying to use the jewel shard on Tessaiga to escape from its belly.  Kagome did not touch Tessaiga or the shard.  She held on to Inuyasha.  She purified him & nothing else.  He, in turn, purified the jewel through Tessaiga.  What was left was a few awe-inspiring moments of a full-demon, fully in control, and complete with his own soul, Inuyasha.  The wish he wanted to make on the Shikon jewel had come true; and it was solely due to his bond with Kagome, nothing else.  As I mentioned in my speculation about Midoriko, her purification of demons may have been like this.  She removed the evil.  That's all.  The manga implies this more than the anime.  Also, Kagome, in the manga, learned how to shoot a sacred arrow through an obstacle to its intended target.  That means she could shoot at Inuyasha & have the arrow go through him without harm to the target behind him.  Kikyo never showed this ability.   - END SPOILER  

 

- RESPONSE TO SPOILER (my response refers to things said in the spoiler, hence its own alert) - You raise a very good point there, doxie; Kagome did indeed purify 'demon' Inuyasha without touching the shard or the Tessaiga.  I agree, it was undeniably awesome, in the truest sense of the word; something which is capable of insiring awe and or reverence.  His wish came true, thanks to Kagome, and he didn't need the jewel to do it.

 

I've got a question, though.  When I watched the last episode I saw this as being an example of the power of Kagome's bond with Inuyasha (similar to the kiss they share in the second movie [at least I think its the second movie] that reverses his full demon form [Kagome somewhat literally is Inuyasha's better half, and it is only through her that he can reach his full potential]) rather than being a power that Kagome has against demons in general.  Here is where the question comes in.  You'd know this better than I would, because I've only read the manga up to the end of anime, but is this something Kagome can do to other demons, as well, like Midoriko could?  I was thinking that it was only Inuyasha that she could do this to, which to me would be more indicitive of that same bond with Kagome that grants his wish than of a power persay.  You would know better than me, though.  Oh, by the way, I know I've gone into a lot of detail here, and I know sometimes with that much detail it can be easily misconstrued as being argumentitive, or even worse hostile, so I truly hope this doesn't come across as me being disrespectful of your opinion, becasue that couldn't be further from my intentions; I just want to understand your point of view on this better.  :smileyhappy:  Also, Kagome can shoot through Inuyasha to hit a target behind him?!!  Omg, I can't wait until I get to that part of the manga! - END SPOILER

 

> Kagome had been in contact with the jewel her entire life.  That means she had Midoriko's soul inside her since before her birth.  It's not a big stretch to imagine her getting more of Midoriko than just the part of her in the jewel.  SPOILER - In the manga, she & Naraku were supposed to replace Midoriko & Magatsuhi inside the jewel.  - END SPOILER

 

- Thats an outstanding observation!  I never even thought about that, until now, but you are completely, unequivicaly right!  Midoriko's soul (well, part of it, anyways) is indeed still battling the demons inside the jewel, like I was pointing out earlier, but it is also undeniable that the jewel was inside of Kagome, and that she carried it with her since before her birth.  It is not hard to imagine that Midoriko could have had some, if not a profound influence on Kagome's life, albeit somewhat by proxy.  By the way, come to think of it, you would have thought that a jewel would have come up on an ultrasound, wouldn't you?!  "Uh, Mr. and Mrs. Higurashi, there's no need to be alarmed.  Your daughter is in good health, developing fine, but ... well, how do I put this? She's ... she's carrying a jewel inside her body!" :smileyvery-happy:

 

 

Part of Midoriko's soul is still inside the cave, maintaining the barrier.  To me, that means she fractured her soul when she created the jewel.  That is why I can speculate that pieces or aspects of her soul were able to transmigrate to new bodies. 

 

- This makes Midoriko perhaps the only case where it is possible to have a reincarnation without having the entire soul of the predessor be relocated into the reincarnate's body.  After considering what was pointed out in the post I'm now replying to, I'd like to ammend what I said earlier to say that in most cases, a soul would have to move to the reincarnate's body, but this is the exception to the rule, because as you said, doxie, Midoriko's soul was "fractured" when she created the jewel, which would explain her presence in the jewel itself (doing battle against the demon soul), her ability to maintain the barrier, her existence inside Kagome as part of the jewel itself, and the way that many characters in the story seem to embody her traits.  Perhaps a good way of thinking about those people who seem to have parts of Midoriko's soul in theirs is that they are 'partial reincarnations' of Midoriko.  By this I mean that while they were most likely not Midoriko in a past life and don't possess her entire soul as most true reincarnations do, they have part of her spirit living within them, guiding them and, when they meet up with others that likewise reflect different aspects of Midoriko's soul, allowing them to complete each other and work in harmony as a whole.

 

Also, the timing from Midoriko's to Inuyasha's time is between 700 & 300 years.  500 years is right in the middle & is equal to the amount of time it took for Kikyo's soul to return.  The manga says that Inuyasha's father was an aging demon (i.e., past his prime).  If (and I say IF) he ever met Midoriko, it would have been either as a young demon or during his prime, and definitely before Sesshomaru was born.  Therefore, we have no living memory or record of those events.  However, there are so many coincidences here that this speculation is as valid as any.

 

It would explain Father's sentiments.  It would explain his almost psychic prescience about his children's futures.  And it would possibly explain his ability to hold on to his domain.  A benevolent ruler would attract many willing followers.

 


 

 - I like this idea.  Indeed, when they were talking about the four souls that make up the Shikon No Tama, Aramitama (courage), Nigimitama (friendship), Kushimitama (wisdom) and Sakimitama (love), it is the gang we see pictures of representing each soul.

 

> You're right.  It also explains the composition of the gang.  One for each soul, plus Shippo reflecting Kagome's aspect (friendship) from the world of the demons (Midoriko's purification?), and Kagome doing double duty as the magnet that brings them together.  All of them divided into 2 couples that bond closely as soul mates, and later, as physical mates.  This is another reason that I think Kagome got something extra from Midoriko.

 

- You know, doxie, I think you really have something there.

You made some really, really great points.  I just felt I had to explain my reasons for my conclusions a little more thoroughly to account for them.  It's great to have a discussion with a contrasting opinion based on keen observations.  Keep up the thoughtful, challenging work!

 


Thank you.  :smileyhappy:  I appreciate that.  You made some outstanding points as well (in fact, you made me reevaluate my opinion on Midoriko's reincarnation, and I now see that topic in I way I hadn't before ... thank you for that, as well.)  I agree; its great to have a dissussion where there is a free flowing exchange of ideas, especially if those ideas are somewhat different than another persons (wouldn't it be boring, if everyone agreed with everyone else all the time and simply said the same things time and time again?)  :smileyhappy:  It is only through having different opinions and sharing them freely and respectfully that we as a society can gain a deeper understanding of our own views, and perhaps even adopt a different point of view.  Keep up the thoughtful, challenging work too!

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ChatManMat: Proudly ranking at the speed of evolution since 06 :smileyvery-happy:

Watch this space for a link to the "Inuyasha 3 Word story," in document form, in it's entirety... Yep, it may take a couple months, but I'm putting it together all in one place, in honor of those who helped make it as popular as it was!

Thanks to Crushrose for helping me with this new and improved sig2.0!

"He who laughs last took the longest to get the joke." -Me

"Will you bear my children?" -Miroku, Inuyasha

""We stand in awe before that which cannot be seen. And we respect with every fey which cannot be explained" -Rukia, Bleach

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." -Yoda, Star Wars TESB
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48507461

I'm replying to the message where I went through Inuyasha's duality of spirit for easy reference (just click the message # above to read it).  Here is the point of that post.  Now that we know the true nature of the Shikon no Tama, it becomes obvious that Inuyasha is the living analog of it.  They're exactly the same.  They both contain demon and human spirits, both have a constant internal battle between those spirits, etc.  In an odd way, Inuyasha is the jewel, personified.  Another Takahashi parallelism, I guess.  This becomes clearer as we see more aspects of Inuyasha manifest themselves and learn more about the role one of the links between Inuyasha & Kagome, the Tessaiga, plays in all of this.

kienasai! eien ni!
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ChatManMat
Posts: 4,939
Registered: 08-22-2006
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48748881

::Notices the three or four posts concerning Midoriko:: Wow, crush and I were right when we agreed that doxie chose a really good topic when she decided to write about Midoriko.  Just look at the great disscussion its generated! :smileyhappy:
My ASMB home
ChatManMat: Proudly ranking at the speed of evolution since 06 :smileyvery-happy:

Watch this space for a link to the "Inuyasha 3 Word story," in document form, in it's entirety... Yep, it may take a couple months, but I'm putting it together all in one place, in honor of those who helped make it as popular as it was!

Thanks to Crushrose for helping me with this new and improved sig2.0!

"He who laughs last took the longest to get the joke." -Me

"Will you bear my children?" -Miroku, Inuyasha

""We stand in awe before that which cannot be seen. And we respect with every fey which cannot be explained" -Rukia, Bleach

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." -Yoda, Star Wars TESB
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48755407

Wait'll you see the response I've been preparing all day.  Just give me a little while to cut & paste it into a post.

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48748881


ChatManMat wrote:

doxiedachsie wrote:

 

I thought about comparing Kagome's powers to Kikyo's.  It turns out that Kagome does have powers that Kikyo lacks & at least one of them is comparable to Midoriko's abilities.   SPOILER -   In the last anime episode, Kagome purified "demon" Inuyasha when he was overcome by the feedback of the oni while trying to use the jewel shard on Tessaiga to escape from its belly.  Kagome did not touch Tessaiga or the shard.  She held on to Inuyasha.  She purified him & nothing else.  He, in turn, purified the jewel through Tessaiga.  What was left was a few awe-inspiring moments of a full-demon, fully in control, and complete with his own soul, Inuyasha.  The wish he wanted to make on the Shikon jewel had come true; and it was solely due to his bond with Kagome, nothing else.  As I mentioned in my speculation about Midoriko, her purification of demons may have been like this.  She removed the evil.  That's all.  The manga implies this more than the anime.  Also, Kagome, in the manga, learned how to shoot a sacred arrow through an obstacle to its intended target.  That means she could shoot at Inuyasha & have the arrow go through him without harm to the target behind him.  Kikyo never showed this ability.   - END SPOILER  

 

> There is a caveat to this.  This information comes from Chapter 511 in the manga.  NEW SPOILER - An awful lot of information is presented there.  Some of it actually turns out to be a red herring.  But the point of the chapter is that Kagome can access abilities without exuding any spiritual power and she has little control over them.  That is, her powers are bound.  By whom is unknown at the time.  - END NEW SPOILER <
 

 

- RESPONSE TO SPOILER (my response refers to things said in the spoiler, hence its own alert) - You raise a very good point there, doxie; Kagome did indeed purify 'demon' Inuyasha without touching the shard or the Tessaiga.  I agree, it was undeniably awesome, in the truest sense of the word; something which is capable of insiring awe and or reverence.  His wish came true, thanks to Kagome, and he didn't need the jewel to do it.

 

I've got a question, though.  When I watched the last episode I saw this as being an example of the power of Kagome's bond with Inuyasha (similar to the kiss they share in the second movie [at least I think its the second movie] that reverses his full demon form [Kagome somewhat literally is Inuyasha's better half, and it is only through her that he can reach his full potential]) rather than being a power that Kagome has against demons in general. 

 

> You're absolutely right on this point; but it goes further than that.  The effect is mutual.  Inuyasha enhances Kagome's powers as well.  There are numerous canon incidents that reinforce this. 

1) When Kikyo was first reawakened, she shot Inuyasha with a sacred arrow.  It would certainly have destroyed him totally.  But the comatose Kagome heard his scream of distress, roused her powers & took her soul back from Kikyo, thus saving him (much like he awakened when she was in danger from Mistress Centipede). 
2) When the bound & paralyzed Kagome saw Kikyo dragging Inuyasha to hell, she again roused & drove Kikyo's "borrowed" souls away, thus breaking Kikyo's hold over both "victims".  This allowed her to use her voice to break Inuyasha's spell.  What is interesting here is that Kikyo was so powerful she could incapacitate Kagome with just a touch; but when Kagome's power was invoked, it was much stronger.

The 2nd movie kiss, however, is non-canon fan service.  So we can't rely on that for proof of anything. It's purpose in the story was to give Inuyasha a stronger reason to stay a half-demon than to become a full one.

However, Inuyasha & Kagome are definitely depicted as two halves of a greater whole.  Each one reinforces & enhances the other.

Contrast this with Inuyasha's relationship with Kikyo.  Each one diminished the other.  She lost her power and devolved into an ordinary human.  He was about to sacrifice all of his power to become an ordinary human, as well. 

This is purely a personal opinion; but they were about to destroy themselves anyway, without Naraku's help.  Don't you think that, after a little while, Inuyasha was going to wind up hating Kikyo for doing that to him?  And once she no longer had a miko's obligations, she would not be so lonely & would suddenly have nothing in common with him, an uncouth, rude, violent, street kid with no social skills?

Their powers defined their lives and were the cause of the loneliness that drove them together.  Their relationship was based only on their loneliness, nothing else.  Without that, they had no reason to be together.  (This whole topic deserves its own post.) 
<

 

Here is where the question comes in.  You'd know this better than I would, because I've only read the manga up to the end of anime, but is this something Kagome can do to other demons, as well, like Midoriko could?  I was thinking that it was only Inuyasha that she could do this to, which to me would be more indicitive of that same bond with Kagome that grants his wish than of a power per se. 

 

> Good point.  We really don't know for sure; but here is a SUPER spoiler, SUPER SPOILER -  Kagome's powers are bound, much like Inuyasha was for 50 years.  She has been that way since birth. That implies she may have that power once she is unbound & trained.  - END SUPER SPOILER  Right now, it works with Inuyasha because of the bond between them. <

 

You would know better than me, though.  Oh, by the way, I know I've gone into a lot of detail here, and I know sometimes with that much detail it can be easily misconstrued as being argumentitive, or even worse hostile, so I truly hope this doesn't come across as me being disrespectful of your opinion, becasue that couldn't be further from my intentions; I just want to understand your point of view on this better.  :smileyhappy: 

 

> Any well thought out point of view is welcome!  That is how we learn & understand better.  No offense will ever be taken for something like that.  :smileyhappy:  <

 

Also, Kagome can shoot through Inuyasha to hit a target behind him?!!  Omg, I can't wait until I get to that part of the manga! - END SPOILER

 

> Kagome had been in contact with the jewel her entire life.  That means she had Midoriko's soul inside her since before her birth.  It's not a big stretch to imagine her getting more of Midoriko than just the part of her in the jewel.  SPOILER - In the manga, she & Naraku were supposed to replace Midoriko & Magatsuhi inside the jewel.  - END SPOILER

 

- Thats an outstanding observation!  I never even thought about that, until now, but you are completely, unequivicaly right!  Midoriko's soul (well, part of it, anyways) is indeed still battling the demons inside the jewel, like I was pointing out earlier, but it is also undeniable that the jewel was inside of Kagome, and that she carried it with her since before her birth.  It is not hard to imagine that Midoriko could have had some, if not a profound influence on Kagome's life, albeit somewhat by proxy. 

 
> Unfortunately, the alternative is also true.  The evil inside the jewel can also affect Kagome.  (See spoiler above.) <

 

By the way, come to think of it, you would have thought that a jewel would have come up on an ultrasound, wouldn't you?!  "Uh, Mr. and Mrs. Higurashi, there's no need to be alarmed.  Your daughter is in good health, developing fine, but ... well, how do I put this? She's ... she's carrying a jewel inside her body!" :smileyvery-happy:

 

> I thought about that, too.  Then I realized that the jewel is made up of soul.  It can be absorbed into the body in the same way that the demons who swallowed it were able to absorb it (carrion crow, for example).  The proximity of the centipede demon & Inuyasha are probably what re-crystallized it in the first episode.  (Or maybe, its own will did that once it got back to Sengoku Jidai.)  Anyway, it would probably be invisible under those circumstances.  That is also why I think the something "extra" that Kagome has over merely being Kikyo's reincarnation came from Midoriko.  <
 

 

Part of Midoriko's soul is still inside the cave, maintaining the barrier.  To me, that means she fractured her soul when she created the jewel.  That is why I can speculate that pieces or aspects of her soul were able to transmigrate to new bodies. 

 

- This makes Midoriko perhaps the only case where it is possible to have a reincarnation without having the entire soul of the predessor be relocated into the reincarnate's body.  After considering what was pointed out in the post I'm now replying to, I'd like to ammend what I said earlier to say that in most cases, a soul would have to move to the reincarnate's body, but this is the exception to the rule, because as you said, doxie, Midoriko's soul was "fractured" when she created the jewel, which would explain her presence in the jewel itself (doing battle against the demon soul), her ability to maintain the barrier, her existence inside Kagome as part of the jewel itself, and the way that many characters in the story seem to embody her traits.  Perhaps a good way of thinking about those people who seem to have parts of Midoriko's soul in theirs is that they are 'partial reincarnations' of Midoriko.  By this I mean that while they were most likely not Midoriko in a past life and don't possess her entire soul as most true reincarnations do, they have part of her spirit living within them, guiding them and, when they meet up with others that likewise reflect different aspects of Midoriko's soul, allowing them to complete each other and work in harmony as a whole.

 

> You're on the right track.  SPOILER:  In the manga, Kikyo goes to Midoriko to absorb her soul because she can no longer exist otherwise.  So, the last piece of Midoriko's soul goes into Kikyo. I won't detail the circumstances. SPOILER

 

Also, the timing from Midoriko's to Inuyasha's time is between 700 & 300 years.  500 years is right in the middle & is equal to the amount of time it took for Kikyo's soul to return.  The manga says that Inuyasha's father was an aging demon (i.e., past his prime).  If (and I say IF) he ever met Midoriko, it would have been either as a young demon or during his prime, and definitely before Sesshomaru was born.  Therefore, we have no living memory or record of those events.  However, there are so many coincidences here that this speculation is as valid as any.

 

It would explain Father's sentiments.  It would explain his almost psychic prescience about his children's futures.  And it would possibly explain his ability to hold on to his domain.  A benevolent ruler would attract many willing followers.

 


 

 - I like this idea.  Indeed, when they were talking about the four souls that make up the Shikon No Tama, Aramitama (courage), Nigimitama (friendship), Kushimitama (wisdom) and Sakimitama (love), it is the gang we see pictures of representing each soul.

 

> You're right.  It also explains the composition of the gang.  One for each soul, plus Shippo reflecting Kagome's aspect (friendship) from the world of the demons (Midoriko's purification?), and Kagome doing double duty as the magnet that brings them together.  All of them divided into 2 couples that bond closely as soul mates, and later, as physical mates.  This is another reason that I think Kagome got something extra from Midoriko.

 

- You know, doxie, I think you really have something there.

You made some really, really great points.  I just felt I had to explain my reasons for my conclusions a little more thoroughly to account for them.  It's great to have a discussion with a contrasting opinion based on keen observations.  Keep up the thoughtful, challenging work!

 


Thank you.  :smileyhappy:  I appreciate that.  You made some outstanding points as well (in fact, you made me reevaluate my opinion on Midoriko's reincarnation, and I now see that topic in I way I hadn't before ... thank you for that, as well.)  I agree; its great to have a dissussion where there is a free flowing exchange of ideas, especially if those ideas are somewhat different than another persons (wouldn't it be boring, if everyone agreed with everyone else all the time and simply said the same things time and time again?)  :smileyhappy:  It is only through having different opinions and sharing them freely and respectfully that we as a society can gain a deeper understanding of our own views, and perhaps even adopt a different point of view.  Keep up the thoughtful, challenging work too!



You need to know I am a scientist by training.  If someone finds a hole in a published theory, then it is time to re-examine that theory.  It is an accepted fact of life for scientists to do that.  So don't worry about thoughtful criticism.  It only makes things better in the end.

kienasai! eien ni!
Your Moribito and Inuyasha HELPeR.
Moribito Episode Viewing going on right now in the Moribito Folder!!

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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48757063

ChatMan,     The response to your comments is in the post above.

kienasai! eien ni!
Your Moribito and Inuyasha HELPeR.
Moribito Episode Viewing going on right now in the Moribito Folder!!

Kei Pirate
ChatManMat
Posts: 4,939
Registered: 08-22-2006
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48757063


doxiedachsie wrote:


> You're absolutely right on this point; but it goes further than that.  The effect is mutual.  Inuyasha enhances Kagome's powers as well.  There are numerous canon incidents that reinforce this. 

 

- I agree.  It is a mutual effect.  I didn't mention it earlier, because I was more focusing on an alternative to Kagome's effect on Inuyasha being a power, persay, but you are absolutely right.  It is a two way street, as far as enhancing each others abilities is concerned.

 

1) When Kikyo was first reawakened, she shot Inuyasha with a sacred arrow.  It would certainly have destroyed him totally.  But the comatose Kagome heard his scream of distress, roused her powers & took her soul back from Kikyo, thus saving him (much like he awakened when she was in danger from Mistress Centipede). 
2) When the bound & paralyzed Kagome saw Kikyo dragging Inuyasha to hell, she again roused & drove Kikyo's "borrowed" souls away, thus breaking Kikyo's hold over both "victims".  This allowed her to use her voice to break Inuyasha's spell.  What is interesting here is that Kikyo was so powerful she could incapacitate Kagome with just a touch; but when Kagome's power was invoked, it was much stronger.

 

- I think even Kikyo realizes that this is true of Kagome's power, later in the anime. SPOILER - I know this isn't a canon episode, but in the episode "Kikyo and Kagome Alone in a Cave,"  Kikyo would have just given up and (for lack of a better word) died in the priestess sealer's stomach; even when Kagome was determined to save both of them, Kikyo thought it was a useless venture and was amazed when Kagome had enough power to defeat the priester sealer and escape.  - END SPOILER  Now, I know this isn't canon, but I do think it reinforces the idea that Kagome is more powerful than Kikyo and that Kikyo may be cognisant of this.

 

The 2nd movie kiss, however, is non-canon fan service.  So we can't rely on that for proof of anything. It's purpose in the story was to give Inuyasha a stronger reason to stay a half-demon than to become a full one.

 

-Thats a good point.  I actually only mentioned it to give me something to compare with the what we see in the spoiler, but I concur. It definitely doesn't constitute proof.

 

However, Inuyasha & Kagome are definitely depicted as two halves of a greater whole.  Each one reinforces & enhances the other.

Contrast this with Inuyasha's relationship with Kikyo.  Each one diminished the other.  She lost her power and devolved into an ordinary human.  He was about to sacrifice all of his power to become an ordinary human, as well. 

This is purely a personal opinion; but they were about to destroy themselves anyway, without Naraku's help.  Don't you think that, after a little while, Inuyasha was going to wind up hating Kikyo for doing that to him?  And once she no longer had a miko's obligations, she would not be so lonely & would suddenly have nothing in common with him, an uncouth, rude, violent, street kid with no social skills?

 

- I agree, it very well could have been a self-destructive relationship.  Of course all we can do is speculate, because this never has the chance to happen, but personally I could see that relationship ending tragicly even without Naraku's interference.  I don't think that Inuyasha would have resented Kikyo for turning him into a human, because it is clear that he genuinely wants to use the jewel to become human and be with Kikyo, who he truly does love, but he could end up hating her for talking him into giving up his heritage for a relationship that could very well fall apart.  Now, I also should mention that I feel Kikyo truly loves Inuyasha as well.

 

She would most likely stay with Inuyasha for a long time, and try to change him into the good person she sees that he has the potential to be; she wants to do for him what Kagome ends up doing for Inuyasha.  As Kikyo herself says, "If I had lived, I would have been the one to heal his heart."  However, we all know how frustrated Kagome can become while trying to change Inuyasha for the better!  How many times has she gone home to her own time out of frustration?  Kikyo would have lived in the same time as Inuyasha, and there would be nowhere for her to go, no place to cool down and vent for an extented period.  This could very well have led to them breaking up. 

 

Their powers defined their lives and were the cause of the loneliness that drove them together.  Their relationship was based only on their loneliness, nothing else.  Without that, they had no reason to be together.  (This whole topic deserves its own post.)  <

 

-Great way of putting this! Very well said.  I agree, also, that their loneliness brought them together.  I won't delve into this too much, since at present it would be off topic, but it definitely could be its own, in depth post. 


> Good point.  We really don't know for sure; but here is a SUPER spoiler, SUPER SPOILER -  Kagome's powers are bound, much like Inuyasha was for 50 years.  She has been that way since birth. That implies she may have that power once she is unbound & trained.  - END SUPER SPOILER  Right now, it works with Inuyasha because of the bond between them. <

 

- Oh, ok!  That is very interesting, and I can definitely see where you're coming from with your theory (without going into any spoiler event-specific details) that Kagome could very well be able to do this with other demons, which would be indictative of a shared power with Midoriko as opposed to being an example of the bond with Inuyasha.  Without knowing what will happen when this state is reversed, we are left tantilizingly close to having a definite answer.

 

You have a very good theory here, although it wouldn't hold up to the scientific method, I'm afraid, because there is no repeatable result, as of yet (the repeatable result in this case would be Kagome repeating this action with a demon other than Inuyasha.)  Its comparable to Einstein's theory of relativity, before that fateful solar eclipse.  It could be a legitimate power, and the super spoiler certainly lends a great deal of merit to that effect, but it could still be a one time occurence with Inuyasha.  I'm kind of on the fence right now, I could go either way.  I think both options are very possible, especially given what you just told me, and at the moment, its just too close to call either way, for me.

 

> Any well thought out point of view is welcome!  That is how we learn & understand better.  No offense will ever be taken for something like that.  :smileyhappy:  <

 

- I agree.  Its good to know that you see it that way as well. :smileyhappy:  Truth be told, I'm somewhat of a philosopher; I have always enjoyed studying religions, mythology, science, psychology ( I actually took enough courses in psychology in college to complete a minor in it) and a myriad of other topics, and find myself delving into each, and I do a lot of in depth analysis and observation (as you've no doubt noticed, lol :smileyvery-happy:).  I've found, though, that some people find a detailed response to what they've written or said to be an assault on what they believe, so I'll often let people know that I'm not trying to be confrontational.  (I was almost one hundred percent certain that you wouldn't think I was disrepecting your views, but you never can be entirely sure how an individual will see something until after the fact, and it's always better safe than sorry.) :smileyhappy:

 
> Unfortunately, the alternative is also true.  The evil inside the jewel can also affect Kagome.  (See spoiler above.) <

 

- Indeed.  Everyone has the capacity for both good and evil, and Kagome is only human.  A certain infant (and I won't go into any further detail because this is far in the future) was able to prove that this was true, in a certain way.  (Sorry to be so cryptic, but those who have seen the episode will understand this but those who haven't don't have any real information that could spoil it for them.) So yes, Kagome can be affected by evil in the jewel as well.  Most of the time though, the part touched by Midoriko pervails.

 

> I thought about that, too.  Then I realized that the jewel is made up of soul.  It can be absorbed into the body in the same way that the demons who swallowed it were able to absorb it (carrion crow, for example).  The proximity of the centipede demon & Inuyasha are probably what re-crystallized it in the first episode.  (Or maybe, its own will did that once it got back to Sengoku Jidai.)  Anyway, it would probably be invisible under those circumstances.  That is also why I think the something "extra" that Kagome has over merely being Kikyo's reincarnation came from Midoriko.  <
 

- Lol, I was just making a joke about it.  I didn't really give it any serious thought.  :smileyvery-happy: 

 

It is interesting observation though.  I'm not sure that the jewel would be invisible to a machine.  When it is absorbed by demons who swallow it or otherwise add the jewel to their body, it does dissapear from a human's view.  When we see the shards embedded in a demon as Kagome sees them though, they seem to be in a crystallized form even before being removed and recollected.  It could be that in the manga and anime they are just drawing the jewel shard in the place where it has been absorbed for our benefit, but if Kagome does see them as a solid object inside the host body, it would seem like a machine that can see inside a human would be able to see the shard or jewel as well.  Also, though it isn't canon, SPOILER - in the end of "Tragic Love Song of Destiny" part 2, we see Kagome as a new born, and you catch a quick glimse of the Shikon no Tama inside her.  Then again, the anime also shows us Kirara by Midoriko's side, and that probably is something that shouldn't and can't bee taken at face value either. - END SPOILER


- This makes Midoriko perhaps the only case where it is possible to have a reincarnation without having the entire soul of the predessor be relocated into the reincarnate's body.  After considering what was pointed out in the post I'm now replying to, I'd like to ammend what I said earlier to say that in most cases, a soul would have to move to the reincarnate's body, but this is the exception to the rule, because as you said, doxie, Midoriko's soul was "fractured" when she created the jewel, which would explain her presence in the jewel itself (doing battle against the demon soul), her ability to maintain the barrier, her existence inside Kagome as part of the jewel itself, and the way that many characters in the story seem to embody her traits.  Perhaps a good way of thinking about those people who seem to have parts of Midoriko's soul in theirs is that they are 'partial reincarnations' of Midoriko.  By this I mean that while they were most likely not Midoriko in a past life and don't possess her entire soul as most true reincarnations do, they have part of her spirit living within them, guiding them and, when they meet up with others that likewise reflect different aspects of Midoriko's soul, allowing them to complete each other and work in harmony as a whole.

 

> You're on the right track.  SPOILER:  In the manga, Kikyo goes to Midoriko to absorb her soul because she can no longer exist otherwise.  So, the last piece of Midoriko's soul goes into Kikyo. I won't detail the circumstances. SPOILER

 

Also, the timing from Midoriko's to Inuyasha's time is between 700 & 300 years.  500 years is right in the middle & is equal to the amount of time it took for Kikyo's soul to return.  The manga says that Inuyasha's father was an aging demon (i.e., past his prime).  If (and I say IF) he ever met Midoriko, it would have been either as a young demon or during his prime, and definitely before Sesshomaru was born.  Therefore, we have no living memory or record of those events.  However, there are so many coincidences here that this speculation is as valid as any.

 

It would explain Father's sentiments.  It would explain his almost psychic prescience about his children's futures.  And it would possibly explain his ability to hold on to his domain.  A benevolent ruler would attract many willing followers.

 

- I agree; it would explain Inutaisho's sentiments, and with so many coincidences, it's almost as easy as reading between the lines.  It is not a stretch either, becuase we know how many allusions Takahashi uses in the story.  Inuyasha is rich with symbolism, forshadowing, and literary allusions; there is no way to deny that it is a story with many layers and with ample references to and use of mythology and religion.  It is not at all hard to imagine her leaving something for the readers to find that is not explisitly mentioned!

 



You need to know I am a scientist by training.  If someone finds a hole in a published theory, then it is time to re-examine that theory.  It is an accepted fact of life for scientists to do that.  So don't worry about thoughtful criticism.  It only makes things better in the end.


Don't worry, I'm not worried about thoughtful criticism.  :smileyhappy:  Like I said, it is only through having different opinions and sharing them freely and respectfully that we as a society can gain a deeper understanding of our own views. 

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ChatManMat: Proudly ranking at the speed of evolution since 06 :smileyvery-happy:

Watch this space for a link to the "Inuyasha 3 Word story," in document form, in it's entirety... Yep, it may take a couple months, but I'm putting it together all in one place, in honor of those who helped make it as popular as it was!

Thanks to Crushrose for helping me with this new and improved sig2.0!

"He who laughs last took the longest to get the joke." -Me

"Will you bear my children?" -Miroku, Inuyasha

""We stand in awe before that which cannot be seen. And we respect with every fey which cannot be explained" -Rukia, Bleach

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." -Yoda, Star Wars TESB
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
0

Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to ChatManMat - Message ID#: 48764056

1) When Kikyo was first reawakened, she shot Inuyasha with a sacred arrow.  It would certainly have destroyed him totally.  But the comatose Kagome heard his scream of distress, roused her powers & took her soul back from Kikyo, thus saving him (much like he awakened when she was in danger from Mistress Centipede). 
2) When the bound & paralyzed Kagome saw Kikyo dragging Inuyasha to hell, she again roused & drove Kikyo's "borrowed" souls away, thus breaking Kikyo's hold over both "victims".  This allowed her to use her voice to break Inuyasha's spell.  What is interesting here is that Kikyo was so powerful she could incapacitate Kagome with just a touch; but when Kagome's power was invoked, it was much stronger.

 

- I think even Kikyo realizes that this is true of Kagome's power, later in the anime. SPOILER -I know this isn't a canon episode, but in the episode "Kikyo and Kagome Alone in a Cave,"  Kikyo would have just given up and (for lack of a better word) died in the priestess sealer's stomach; even when Kagome was determined to save both of them, Kikyo thought it was a useless venture and was amazed when Kagome had enough power to defeat the priester sealer and escape.  - END SPOILER  Now, I know this isn't canon, but I do think it reinforces the idea that Kagome is more powerful than Kikyo and that Kikyo may be cognisant of this.

 

 

 You did some great research on this, but I was sure that Kikyo was aware she was dealing with a greater power the instant Kagome did "the impossible" by taking back her soul to stop Kikyo from killing Inuyasha.  She ran away to the cliff edge to escape Kagome & wouldn't let Inuyasha take her back.  I think she also realized that Kagome's contol over those powers was non-existent because she approached & over-whelmed her so many times.  It took an extreme stimulus to awaken Kagome's powers & she could only access them indirectly & for a very short time.  That was probably the start of Kikyo's jealousy.  That upstart girl didn't just have her man, she was also potentially a greater miko & didn't weaken because of love.

 

 

 

> Good point.  We really don't know for sure; but here is a SUPER spoiler, SUPER SPOILER -  Kagome's powers are bound, much like Inuyasha was for 50 years.  She has been that way since birth. That implies she may have that power once she is unbound & trained.  - END SUPER SPOILER  Right now, it works with Inuyasha because of the bond between them. <

 

- Oh, ok!  That is very interesting, and I can definitely see where you're coming from with your theory (without going into any spoiler event-specific details) that Kagome could very well be able to do this with other demons, which would be indictative of a shared power with Midoriko as opposed to being an example of the bond with Inuyasha.  Without knowing what will happen when this state is reversed, we are left tantilizingly close to having a definite answer.

 

You have a very good theory here, although it wouldn't hold up to the scientific method, I'm afraid, because there is no repeatable result, as of yet (the repeatable result in this case would be Kagome repeating this action with a demon other than Inuyasha.)  Its comparable to Einstein's theory of relativity, before that fateful solar eclipse.  It could be a legitimate power, and the super spoiler certainly lends a great deal of merit to that effect, but it could still be a one time occurence with Inuyasha.  I'm kind of on the fence right now, I could go either way.  I think both options are very possible, especially given what you just told me, and at the moment, its just too close to call either way, for me.

 

Right now, it's only a theorem, based on logical assembly of various clues.  But the red herring in the chapter 511 revelation is this:  SPOILER- Everyone assumed it was Kikyo  binding Kagome's powers; but it turned out to be the jewel itself.  Also, in the end game, Inuyasha winds up inside the jewel fighting demons & learns that Kagome was supposedly born to take Midoriko's place in it, fighting demons (is it that bond?, again).  That implies she was born with powers comparable to Midoriko.  As a side note, there are interesting images of Inuyasha fighting the demons inside the jewel & meeting Midoriko for an instant, a Midoriko with a demon replacing a part of her left arm (biting it off?) and wielding a very large sword.  The physical resemblance to both a certain demon & his half-brother is impressive.  It is also the closest we ever get to hearing Inuyasha say those 3 words he successfully evaded for the entire manga.  Read chapter 555 to find out how he says it. -END SPOILER  Of course, none of this can be taken to say that Midoriko was reincarnated; but it does imply that there are certain powers common to priestesses and the stronger they are, the more of those powers they exhibit.  Since Kagome's purification trick with Inuyasha was done in a very stressful situation, and we know that extreme stress over danger to Inuyasha triggers Kagome's powers, then it is possible to speculate that she does posses the power, but cannot use it normally.

 

However, it's good to stay on the fence for now. 

 

 > Unfortunately, the alternative is also true.  The evil inside the jewel can also affect Kagome.  (See spoiler above.) <

 

- Indeed.  Everyone has the capacity for both good and evil, and Kagome is only human.  A certain infant (and I won't go into any further detail because this is far in the future) was able to prove that this was true, in a certain way.  (Sorry to be so cryptic, but those who have seen the episode will understand this but those who haven't don't have any real information that could spoil it for them.) So yes, Kagome can be affected by evil in the jewel as well.  Most of the time though, the part touched by Midoriko pervails.

 

My bad for this, I gave the impression that I meant the jewel could inject evil into her.  What I meant was that the jewel could physically affect her abilities & powers, the same way Midoriko's soul could.  Again, the spoiler above explains some of this.

 

It is interesting observation though.  I'm not sure that the jewel would be invisible to a machine.  When it is absorbed by demons who swallow it or otherwise add the jewel to their body, it does dissapear from a human's view.  When we see the shards embedded in a demon as Kagome sees them though, they seem to be in a crystallized form even before being removed and recollected.  It could be that in the manga and anime they are just drawing the jewel shard in the place where it has been absorbed for our benefit, but if Kagome does see them as a solid object inside the host body, it would seem like a machine that can see inside a human would be able to see the shard or jewel as well.  Also, though it isn't canon, SPOILER - in the end of "Tragic Love Song of Destiny" part 2, we see Kagome as a new born, and you catch a quick glimse of the Shikon no Tama inside her.  Then again, the anime also shows us Kirara by Midoriko's side, and that probably is something that shouldn't and can't bee taken at face value either. - END SPOILER

 

When the complete jewel is absorbed, it appears to be much more difficult to find than a shard.  Kagome had to search hard in Mistress Centipedes remains to find the spot.  That was after she was dead.  The jewel is soul, crystallized spirit.  If it joins with its "host" it may disperse to the point where a mechanical device couldn't detect it.  It actually becomes part of the body & indistinguishable.  Kagome & Kikyo seem to interact with it.  That is why they can see it when it is hidden.  It even starts to glow (for them) when they approach it.  Remember, no one else can see it clearly unless it is isolated.   Even Kaede did not have that power, although she had the power to see Yura's hair.  I also suspect that the shards tend to stay localized while the complete jewel would behave differently & disperse.  That is probably why it shattered when Kagome shot the crow.  She shattered the crow with its own claw & the jewel broke up, too.  Because it had contacted her spiritual energy, it just flew off in every direction.  There may be more to it than that; but there would be so many multiple major spoilers involved that I will stay with the simple explanation.

 

 

Well this was fun.  Feel free to bring up any points you think I missed.  It is always stimulating to test the depths of my understanding.  Maybe later, I will try to make a summary post of the Inuyasha - Kikyo couple vs. the Inuyasha - Kagome couple.  That looks to be another rich topic.

 

Isn't is amazing how a mummified corpse can play such a large role in this saga?  I have to go back to my analysis books to try to figure out what kind of folktale role she plays.  It should be interesting. 

 

 

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008

Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

[ Edited ]

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48766728

I felt it was time to start a new topic.  Kikyo & Inuyasha, was the relationship doomed regardless of outside interference?

I think so.  They would have self-destructed even if Naraku had not interfered.  Their relationship was based on their individual isolation.  It was not normal.

Inuyasha had grown up totally alone from early childhood.  From the moment his mother died, he was persona non grata in any human habitation.  In all likelihood, he was literally stoned out of the castle, the village and even the nearby fields & forests.  Even his older brother abandoned him.  He had to learn to survive on his own.  Who knows how many times he was chased, injured & nearly killed while trying to stumble through the forests & find food.  The flashbacks of his childhood are filled with fear & hiding.  He probably learned his crude language skills by hiding in trees near bandit camps, listening to them & waiting for them to fall asleep so that he could steal food.  He probably endured the night of the new moon hiding in abject terror of being discovered.  Everyone, demon & human, was an enemy after his life.

In the middle of this, he overhears talk about the Shikon jewel and realizes it can grant him power, to be stronger than ever before, strong enough that all would fear him and no longer attack him.  It might even make him a true demon and allow him to become accepted by his true demon brother.  It was his way to safety and acceptance, and companionship.  It was his salvation. 

But the  jewel has a protector, a powerful miko (Shinto priestess).  He must get past her to reach the jewel.

Kikyo had grown up being trained as a priestess.  She was set apart from the rest of humanity by her powers and her calling.  She knew she was very powerful, more so than the average miko.  But her position kept her isolated from other humans.  She was kind & loved children; but was likely to never have a romance, never have children of her own and never share the camaraderie that the rest of the village shared.  Into her life came the obligation of protecting the Shikon jewel.  It was a thankless, 24 hour a day job.  She always had to be on her guard.  She always had to be suspicious of any stranger who came to town, possibly to steal the jewel.  She was growing weary of the responsibility she had accepted.  The stress, the constant vigilance, the battles, all of them sapped her energy and she wished she could be rid of them.  She was alone in her obligation and wanted out.  So alone; and taking care of a young sister in addition to protecting the jewel.  So alone; and she could not show fear or weakness.  She could not show any emotion.

Then the persistent half-demon boy showed up.

It was the proverbial match made in heaven.  She sensed his loneliness and desperation.  She couldn't bear to kill him.  He was rough & crude; but he was also innocent & lonely.  She was sad & lonely, and he was just like her.  One day, she decided to talk to the one other person in the world who was like her, the lonely half-demon boy.

One thing led to another and they became closer & closer.  But Kikyo had one flaw that would destroy her and their relationship.  It was the Greek Tragedy Hero's flaw, hubris.  She was very aware of the strength of her powers and presumed that she knew how to control & master the Shikon jewel simply because she could purify it.  That was a big mistake.  In her pride, she assumed that she could both purify the jewel & use it for a selfish purpose.  She hatched a plan to turn the half-demon boy all-human instead of all-demon.  She thought that would destroy the jewel and allow her to go to the life of an ordinary human.  All the powers, and the obligations that went with them, would be gone & she would be free.  With nothing to confirm that she might be right, she proposed the plan to him; and he agreed.  Basically, she was going to wimp out with his help.

Inuyasha had never been treated kindly by anyone except his mother.  He met the first human who actually was willing to hold a conversation with him.  She was so sad that she made him feel guilty for the first time in his life because he tried to steal the jewel from her.  She filled a huge void in his soul.  He craved love & affection and returned it generously.  He wanted companionship so badly that he was willing to give up the thing he wanted more than anything else in life, becoming a full demon like his brother & father, to become the thing he feared being most, a full human.  Did he ever think of the consequences of such a decision?  It's doubtful.  When did he ever do so?

Now the big question.  Did Kikyo love Inuyasha?  Really, really love him, and not just be infatuated with him.  She certainly did not give any consideration to his needs when she asked him to become human.  She asked him to sacrifice everything he had left in life for her sake.  That's a rather selfish thing to do.  He agreed for her sake, not his own.  That is an unselfish thing to do.  That made their love unequal.  The fact that she asked such a thing of him indicates that she probably harbored a hidden prejudice against half-demons.  After all, they were almost demons, the things she was sworn to destroy.  This boy was somehow an exception, but she preferred to remove his demon part and have nothing but a human.  It didn't seem to trouble her that she was amputating half of his identity, in a sense emasculating him.  My conclusion is that she didn't love him in the true sense of the word.  She was just too willing to use him to achieve her own ends.

Was she hoping to redeem him and teach him how to get along in human society?  It doesn't seem that likely.  She hadn't really seemed to have done much in that area in all the time she knew him.  She made some halfhearted motions of inviting him to socialize with her and the village children, but never pressed the issue. She controlled him through guilt and his desire to be with her.  Would she ever have been able to trust him with her life?  It's doubtful.  Did she give him a reason to trust her?  Not much, although she did spare his life; but that was because she sensed his similarity to her.

Their relationship was destroyed in a matter of minutes by an outside force.   Neither one had developed enough trust in the other to question what was happening. She couldn't trust Inuyasha enough to tell him of the bandit she was protecting.  For someone who was supposedly willing to trust him near the village children, she was quick to believe that he would be violent towards her.


Inuyasha was so quick to believe she had turned on him that he forgot everything that had gone on between them.  He didn't notice that the ace archer he knew missed him an awful lot when she was trying so hard to kill him.  He didn't even bother to notice that her scent on the arrows was different.  His natural mistrust of everything quickly resurfaced.  Their love evaporated so quickly it seemed to never have been there at all.

What would  have happened had Naraku not interfered?  She would have tried to use the jewel to make Inuyasha human.  It might have worked, it might not.  If it had, Inuyasha would have been forced to spend the rest of his life as the thing he most dreaded to be, a human.  In all likelihood, his brother would have killed him for renouncing his father's heritage.  If not, he would probably have begun to miss the strength he enjoyed from his demon DNA.  Would he even have been as interesting to Kikyo in this form.  Neither of them knew, because he had never before felt he could trust her seeing him in this form.  And what about the jewel?  We know with hindsight that making Inuyasha human would not have destroyed the jewel.  Kikyo was wrong.  What she assumed in her arrogance was totally wrong.  Now, there would be no one to defend & protect the jewel.  It would have fallen into the wrong hands & disaster would have ensued.  Chances are, both would have been killed by whatever got its hands (claws?) on the jewel.

If it had not worked, she would have been instrumental in corrupting the jewel by making a selfish wish & disaster would have ensued anyway.  She would no longer be able to purify the jewel & the result would have been the same as if Tsubaki had taken possession of it.

If by some miracle, they would have survived with a human Inuyasha, how long would it have taken for him to become aware that she had used him and destroyed his life?  His loyalty would have made him stay, but he would have resented the existence she forced on him.  Would she have loved him after she had gotten her desire to leave the life of a miko behind?  Maybe.  But she would have inherited the job of being his teacher.  Although slightly less work than protecting the jewel, she still would have tired of it in the same way.  He would go from savior to liability.  The jewel would still exist.  She would probably still have to defend it; but how?  And any potential help she could have taught Inuyasha to give her would be gone, along with his demonic strength.

Besides all that, Kikyo's powers were weakening the more she associated with Inuyasha.  This was probably a self-fulfilling prophecy.  They weakened because she believed they would.  Her relationship with him was making her existence more difficult.

So here it is.  Because of their relationship, Kikyo was growing weaker, Inuyasha would soon wind up stripped of his demon heritage & strength for her sake, and the jewel would become corrupt & probably wind up in evil hands before long.  Nothing was right about this.  The two of them only got to relieve their loneliness a little in each other's company.  That was not a strong basis for a lifetime relationship.  It was doomed from the start.

What actually happened to Kikyo & Inuyasha was probably the least damaging of all the possible outcomes.  Like a Greek Tragedy, Kikyo paid for her hubris with her life, and Inuyasha was punished for being a willing accessory to her sin.  He escaped with the lesser punishment because he was acting unselfishly and only to help her.

As a matter of fact, despite the hatred soaked into her bones at the moment of her death, Kikyo  probably learned to love Inuyasha more after her resurrection than she ever had in life.  She said that herself after throwing the jewel shards at Naraku.  In death she was freer to love than ever before.  But the man she loved after death was not the boy she knew and used in life.  He was better because something had happened to him in the interim.

Inuyasha, in the meantime, had met the person who actually completed him and enhanced his strength to levels he never thought he could achieve, Kagome.

Message Edited by doxiedachsie on 03-12-2009 01:57 AM

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48778287

Inuyasha & Kagome.  Were they two halves of a whole?  Based on the interactions we see between them, it looks like it. As early as the Royakan battle, Kagome seemed to infuse Inuyasha with a strength he couldn't muster on his own.  To reciprocate, Kagome's powers only seemed to awaken in Inuyasha's presence.

But what was different about them?  Kagome was Kikyo's reincarnation, but she had a totally different personality.  She had something that was uniquely her own, despite inheriting Kikyo's soul.  Whatever that "something" was, it enabled her to relate to Inuyasha in a way Kikyo never could. 

She saw his halfling identity as a good thing.  She admired his strength, she met his crude behavior head on and matched his temper with her own.  Kikyo would never stoop to giving him the satisfaction of an argument.  Kagome sparred with him in a battle of wits (although she was the superior one in that area).  If things went too far, if she felt that he had totally crossed the line of good behavior, if she just wanted him to grow up & stop acting like a kid, she would use the Word of Subjugation.  He understood that because he understood strength in battle.

Most of all she didn't try to manipulate him with guilt.  If she thought he needed a lesson, she would just correct him and hoped he would see the pattern & start to learn on his own.  She saw the kindness, the honesty, and the desire to help others that he tried to keep hidden.  Little by little, she got him to recognize them as strengths. 

She also gave him something of herself.  She let him know that he was a person of value.  She brought him companions & friends and let him deal with the emotions that went along with being close to others.  She worried about him, she missed him when he was gone, and she didn't want to lose him.  She gave him her emotions, all of them.  In return, she wanted his thoughts & emotions. 

She surprised him.  He never thought telling someone about his hard life would make them happy that he was willing to share something he had previously kept so private.  She trusted him with her life, and asked him to trust her with his.  He once told her he wasn't meant to be happy and she simply said that she wanted him to be happy, like he deserved it.  She was something he had never encountered before, a true friend who was almost more concerned about his well-being than she was about her own.

She never asked him to make a sacrifice for her sake, but he found himself willing to do so anyway.  As a matter of fact, she expressed displeasure that he would take risks on her behalf.  No one had ever valued him so highly before

That was her secret.  She was interested in him, not just his companionship. That is what softened his heart.  That is what gave him a happiness he had never before known in his life.  She made his days interesting and asked only that he try to improve himself in return.  She valued him, a lot. 

He enjoyed teasing & insulting her just to get her reaction.  Interacting with her became his stimulus, his reason for getting up in the morning.  She was the spitting image of the woman he had loved, then hated; but he had to learn to move past that and see the different person underneath.  He enjoyed what he saw.  He even enjoyed goading her to the point where she would activate the necklace that pounded him into the ground. 

She was feisty & gutsy and could be brought to a point that he understood from long experience.  He was a warrior, who expressed himself best through fighting.  The relatively harmless arguments he started with her were something he could understand.  She would meet him on his own terms and put him in his place.  But if he should be really hurt, she would rush to his aid.

Kagome was able to do what Kikyo could not because she was different.  She had grown up in a very social milieu.  She developed the ability to perceive personalities & subtle social interactions.  She got Inuyasha's trust by simply accepting him & working with him.

Inuyasha, in return, formed an attachment to her that he was too proud to admit (perceived weakness).  But she meant more to him than anyone had ever met before.

Imagine his confusion to see his original love return.  Imagine his guilt to learn she was not responsible for his betrayal.  Imagine his guilt at learning that it was his presence in her life that caused her death.  His hatred was gone.  But he now loved two women in different ways, or was it the same woman?  More confusion.  He needed to protect them both.  But he couldn't, not at the same time.  He would have to send one away.  She went.  Then she returned, gave him his freedom, and promised to stand by him anyway.

Little by little, he began to sort out his affairs.  He owed one his guilt, but the other was his companion and his reason to get up in the morning.

Now, here is the question.  Could a reserved, unemotional priestess have earned Inuyasha's trust?  Not likely.  Neither Inuyasha nor Kikyo had ever given each other a reason for trust.  Kagome, instead, sought him out and shared her lunch with him within 2 days of meeting him, even after he had tried to kill her.  Now that's trust.  It didn't hurt that she had the enchanted necklace to help her; but just the same she went to him in kindness; and she wanted to get to know him. 

By contrast, Kikyo never did more than talk to him.  She let him fend for himself.  She had hoped to change him, but she did not know how.  He loved her for merely paying a little attention to him. 

How much more should he love someone who valued him more highly than herself?  Inuyasha had an incredible capacity for love.  He would give it to almost anyone who showed him kindness.  In the case of his first love, he perhaps loved neither very wisely nor well enough.  In the case of his second love, he immersed himself in it completely.

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
Posts: 31,024
Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48694289

Here are Sunday morning's episodes:

 

27  The Lake of the Evil Water God

28  Miroku Falls Into a Dangerous Trap


This Sunday, we see the end of the 1st Season and the first episode of the 2nd Season.

 

Just a quick thing or two to look for.  Miroku finally makes a move on Sango in episode 27.  Inuyasha performs his first Wind Scar in episode 28.  Something to look forward to this weekend.  :smileyhappy:

 

kienasai! eien ni!
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Mensch64
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Registered: 01-27-2009
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48803199

Can't wait to see a healthy Sango in action.
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crushrose
Posts: 80,972
Registered: 06-30-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to Mensch64 - Message ID#: 48816331

well today/tomorrow comes the day to see her in action with the water god episode can

can't wait till it starts...



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doxiedachsie
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Registered: 12-07-2008
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48803199

27  The Lake of the Evil Water God

 

This is the final episode of the first season.  Inuyasha has come so far as to be the one who invites Sango into the group.  Of cousre, he then doesn't waste much time picking a fight with her.   But he would never have done such a thing 20 episodes ago; and Kagome is responsible.

 

He is also quickly willing to fight at Sango's side as a tag team.   Our boy has grown up a little.

 

It is also obvious that Kagome is his first priority, even to the point of being drowned by a stronger opponent. 

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

Reply to doxiedachsie - Message ID#: 48825445

Episode 27 contains a few firsts. 

 

It's the first time we see Kagome's arrow harm a demon by just making casual contact (hints of the sacred arrow to come).

 

Miroku first hits on Sango and gets slapped when "innocent".

 

Inuyasha first fights tag team style with another member of the gang for a common goal.

 

The gang is finally complete. 

kienasai! eien ni!
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doxiedachsie
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Re: INUYASHA!! First timers

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28  Miroku Falls Into a Dangerous Trap

 

Miroku lets his vice draw him away from the team.  But we get to see how completely he has been accepted into the group; and also, how loyal to him Inuyasha has become.  The one-time rival is now a valued friend.  So much so that Inuyasha could not bear the guilt of failing to protect him.

 

Inuyasha's natural reserve prevents him from giving Miroku a happy greeting; but his actions to save him & overcome the demon possessing the monk who raised Miroku speak much louder than anything he could have said.

 

Best of all, for the first time, Inuyasha accidentally finds & invokes the Wind Scar, literally exploding a cloud of demons into scraps.  He has now shown that he has the potential to draw upon all of Tessaiga's power.  He must now learn how.

 

That will be one of the major themes for this second season.  Inuyasha will begin to really develop his power in many ways, and learn some important lessons about himself.  The pace that reached a peak during the battle with Royakan in the last seasonis now picking up to a new height.

 

kienasai! eien ni!
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