Lucy, Daughter of the Devil

[ilovetoki]

I like the show, I think its funny, but I think it would be kinda offensive to Catholic and Christians. I'm not saying that I hate it and I want it canceled, but I think that the idea of that glamorouises the face of Satan. 

[ChicagoViewer]

I'm Catholic--even went to Catholic grammar and high school--and I don't see it. It's a cartoon. There's plenty more offensive in the world than this.

[itsacoaster]

I think that, at worst, it trivializes some of the characters with closest ties to Christianity--the Special Clergy, Judas, DJ Jesús, and Satan. But really, no Christians are being made fun of in the show, nor is Christianity directly criticized via satire. The show did entertain the idea of the real Jesus' temptations, but I really don't believe that the show pokes fun at either the religion itself or its followers. Rather, it gives the devil a particular personality, and we see how he deals with this "second coming" idea.

Then again, I'm really not offended by much of anything.

[Peachy_Keen]

I didn't know Cosby sweaters were glam.

[Alia]

To be offensive, a show has to have a message; it has to be saying something, typically making some negative remark about a race/religion/creed/etc.

The trouble with this show is that it really doesn't say anything. Which is also, what makes it kind of boring.

Moral Orel on the other hand, I see as having a really pointy finger shoved up the arse of Christianity. Which is why it's funnier because people can relate to it, and you know some of them are thinking, "Heh, real religious people so do that." Unlike the flock of sadistic or maladjusted clergy on Lucy, Mrs. Censoritall represents an actual aspect of a steriotype people have been known to apply to Christianity. Exaggerated, but poignant. Lucy really has nothing to do with religion at all. In my opinion, they are dull characters given fantastic names and faces, and that's pretty much it.

So, honestly, it's a tradeoff.

[breakout2317]

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Peachy_Keen wrote:
I didn't know Cosby sweaters were glam.

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Ch. Shows what you know. Why do you think Cosby wore 'em?



And no. I think it, if anything, takes the bible as literature and uses the characters, then tweaks them.

[ChicagoViewer]

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Alia wrote:

The trouble with this show is that it really doesn't say anything. Which is also, what makes it kind of boring.

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Hmmm, I think the show does say something, specifically about human nature. However, I don't know that the show is meant to make a statement about religion, per se--I don't think there are necessarily value judgements about right and wrong unless perhaps you really are looking for them. In many cases, the "good" characters have faults and act "evil" while the "evil" characters have the same human flaws and can act "good" (although, mostly, they choose not to because it's too hard/involves work).

Moral Orel hits the religious theme over the head--hard--while Lucy is much more subtle with levels/layers.

I find the exploration of human nature anything but boring, and I enjoy witty subtlety vs. over-the-top parody, but to each his/her own.

[Alia]

I watch both, but I don't know that there is any message to Lucy except what you're willing to read into it. Everyone probably sees something different if they look that hard.

I kind of get the picture of someone being assaulted because others label them as evil and another person getting out of every bad situation and having everything he does considered good because he's labeled Good... And I see how along those lines having a lot of popular approval is equated to being a DJ... But once I start thinking about that I think I may be reading too much into the show. But like you said, if this is so, it may be pointing a finger at Human nature and giving a Nelson-ish "Ha ha!" and I really don't think Lucy has anything to do with religion.

...While Moral Orel is clearly satirizing religion, or at least how people who follow it can sometimes act.

[the_raytownian]

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ChicagoViewer wrote:

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Alia wrote:

The trouble with this show is that it really doesn't say anything. Which is also, what makes it kind of boring.

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Hmmm, I think the show does say something, specifically about human nature. However, I don't know that the show is meant to make a statement about religion, per se--I don't think there are necessarily value judgements about right and wrong unless perhaps you really are looking for them. In many cases, the "good" characters have faults and act "evil" while the "evil" characters have the same human flaws and can act "good" (although, mostly, they choose not to because it's too hard/involves work).

Moral Orel hits the religious theme over the head--hard--while Lucy is much more subtle with levels/layers.

I find the exploration of human nature anything but boring, and I enjoy witty subtlety vs. over-the-top parody, but to each his/her own.

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I wouldn't say MO "hits the religious themes over the head", personally. MO, to me, is more about human nature than anything. It's about how people manipulate religion to fit their own veiws. It isn't an insult to religion, only the people who exploit it and, ultimately, limit themselves unneccessarily because of it. But the themes of religion on their own are not usually the only thing, or specifically what's being made fun of.

Also, I don't see much of anything (at all) that could be insulting about "Lucy". The characters could have been exchanged with any archetype for for good and evil... There is not a whole lot that goes on as far as religious commentary. Obviously, they make jokes based on the speciffic roles they chose to place into the G v E archetype, but there would be "specialised" jokes for whatever they decided upon...

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And about what Alia said: I don't believe everything requires a message to be "insulting". If someone belched in your face "just 'cuz, whatever..." it might very well be insulting... There's not much meaning behind that sort of thing. Some people think Jerry Springer is offensive/insulting... and it's basically the T.V. equivalent of a big, fat belch...

[Alia]

I kind of meant on TV.

I doubt a show with nothing but a big belching guy on for fifteen minutes would prove very insulting to anyone. Please, [AS], don't take that idea and use it for Tim and Eric... 'cause it kind of seems like you would.

[The_Printz]

well, not plot wise. hell! thought it would be a bit intimadating to some christan republicans like 'Morel Orel' but the way the show goes. there aren't A LOT of offensive stuff to offend religious peeps (aside from Killer Nun Mary "WHICH IS ONE OF THE COOLEST OF THE THREE SPECIAL FAJAS!")

[ilovetoki]

sorry guys, my little bro got my password and wrote that crap. i love this show. don't worry... i love this show and i would NEVER put it down.

[itsacoaster]

Thank your little bro for an interesting discussion, though.

[DRD2001]

Your brother didn't put the show down. He merely posed a question. And while I don't find it offensive, my co-workers would. The don't believe that the Bible, Jesus, God or evil is anything to be made fun of or taken lightly. They're really nice people. But that is their views on their religion. I've learned not to discuss [as] shows around them.

[Alia]

But this show isn't even making fun of God, the Devil, ** dragon breath **, or Evil.

This show is just presenting normal characters and dressing them in religious faces and names. The nuns don't even act like nuns. They act like the Mob. If you want a show that's actually making fun of religion, check out Moral Orel.

If I got some guy to change his name legally to God, then shot him dead, would that act be any more inherently blasphemous than regular murder?

[itsacoaster]

I have a hard time believing that God wouldn't have a sense of humor, anyway. I've always pictured God as the self-deprecating kind.

[episodenoin]

What show on the [as] comedy block isn't offensive?

[Alia]

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episodenoin wrote:
What show on the [as] comedy block isn't offensive?

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Despite the fact that everything's probably offensive to someone, remember that they actually ran Peewee Herman for a while.

[ChicagoViewer]

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Alia wrote:

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episodenoin wrote:
What show on the [as] comedy block isn't offensive?

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Despite the fact that everything's probably offensive to someone, remember that they actually ran Peewee Herman for a while.

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Hmmm, you mean with the guy who was caught touching his pee wee in a nudie theater? Yeah, you're right, not offensive at all.

[Alia]

Well I had no idea that happened but I always thought he was kind of creepy.

Wait, what about Saved by the Bell?

(For some reason, I do know about the Screech porn, but I don't see how that's really realted to the show itself.)

Message Edited by Alia on 09-11-2008 03:12 AM

[Dark_Lord_Khrima]

More Catholics should have this mentality. It's just a cartoon folks. Anyone who's offended by a comedy cartoon is being over-sensitive. Just like how people don't shouldn't find it offensive when someone shoots a guy in a cartoon even though it's wrong, people shouldn't find it offensive when someone glorifies Satan in a cartoon even though some might say it's wrong (if I'm being honest, I don't care either way what people want to do).

[Alia]

Now hold on a tock...

A show can indeed go too far. I just don't think this is one of them.

[Dark_Lord_Khrima]

As far as visuals go yes. But you have to really be trying to go too far with language/stereotypes.

[IndulgentIndecency]

Kudos to your bro... great convo topic!

In my opinion, far too many Christians/Catholics are much too easily offended. I blame the Pope... he really needs to lighten up. It seems as though the Jewish faith is the one of the few that really knows how to laugh at itself (tastefully, of course). Although as a Pagan, that's just my third-party view of it.

[Alia]

I really don't see how this show could even offend those oversensitive individuals.

They're not Satan, the Antichrist, Hesus, etc... They're normal boring people with normal borning lives who have been given mythic names and characters.

It is the Mythic, reduced to the Mundane. But it is, in the end, mundane. It really has very little to do with Satan, Hesus, etc. If anything at all. I mean come on, Satan does not wear a sweater.