Rants

[desantoos]

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EvilsergE wrote:

I can't believe people trust American news.

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This is bull####. This belief that all American news offers the same perspective or even desires to write in a pro-American perspective.

I mean, come on. Compare this with Russia's news and there's a monumental difference between people who are trying to get what they observe out there and ideological wankery such as RT News.

[desantoos]

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EvilsergE wrote:

Oh, OP, Russia did not terrorize Georgia, Georgia is sht and Russia wants nothing from them. It's Georgia that attacked South Ossetia (sp). And you know what else, the Georgian troops has US logo on their uniforms, oh yes they did. All the footage you've seen on CNN and all this American bs news came from Ossetia, not Georgia.

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Source?

[EvilsergE]

Article written by one of the Ossetian journalists. It does not go great into details, but it outlines the whole thing.

A  video of Putin (translated currentcly) about US support of the Geaorgian attack.

And, of course, a lot of truth in RT news you hate so much. I watched news coming Russia on this, so I know the truth. You watched CNN and FOX bs. I don't know if you remember, but CNN had a little Ossetian girl with her mother for an interview about "Russians attack on Georgia", as soon as she strated to explain that Georgia is attacking Ossetia, they cut her off the air. I watched this live on American news.

This beloved country of yours is no less facked up  the rest of the world.

[EvilsergE]

And you know what else, Putin is a great leader. Russia needs a leader who won't be bought out by the west, Russia needs a leader to put sht in it's places. Yes he's a former KGB, yes he's a communist, but Russia hasn't seen better days in decades. And he doesn't give a flying fack about what US and the UN thinks of them, he doesn't need them controlling his country, Russia never was, and never will be anyone puppet, and this is what ticks America off.

Believe it or not, but Russia is the only country in the world America is afraid of, yes afraid. This is why this country tries to find as much dirt as they can on Russia.

[desantoos]

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EvilsergE wrote:

This beloved country of yours is no less facked up  the rest of the world.

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See, here again is the problem with several of the people in this thread. I am by no means saying that the US is perfect. I've twice mentioned dictators we've propped up. Heck, I'll even admit that in Georgia the US screwed up as well. Obviously they made terrible split-second decisions based upon, at that time, limited information. It is terrible that our leaders cannot err towards peace. But Russia's response was far worse, and that's something you are unwilling to mention.

[Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/30_09_09_iiffmgc_repor
t.pdf ]

I mean you are linking to the LA Times for a pro-Russia perspective. Doesn't that show that the US has an array of perspectives and not just one collective ideological view like other countries do such as Russia, China, North Korea, etc?

[desantoos]

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EvilsergE wrote:
Believe it or not, but Russia is the only country in the world America is afraid of, yes afraid. This is why this country tries to find as much dirt as they can on Russia.

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Nobody is afraid of Russia anymore. Heck, nobody even gives a #### about Russia. China's the big problem for most. Though I argue that Russia's intransigence to long-term peace in middle-eastern countries (along with China's) keeps these stupid conflicts in the reigion going.

Putin's been okay--no question he's better than what came before him, and no question he's the most dashing political leader who, I swear if the 24-hour news networks were actually right, is always topless on the job--but Russia's more than one collective mindset headquartered in Moscow. With the suppression of protestors, rampant propaganda, and lack of a reasonable challenger I don't see how Putin doesn't hold power for another decade. In the US we recognize that there are many people who can lead and it is better if more people lead which is why there are short term limits on presidencies. Otherwise, no matter how popular, it is really just a dictatorship in disguise. Putin's okay but let someone else lead--not merely as a puppet but actually lead--and it will demonstrate that Russia cares about representation and human rights and is okay with difficult political discourse.

[Cepheus84]

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EvilsergE wrote:

This beloved country of yours is no less facked up  the rest of the world.

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I wish people who make comments like this could be airdropped into Nigeria or Sudan and left to fend for themselves.

Then let's see if you actually believe that.

[the_shotgun_rhetoric]

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EvilsergE wrote:
Believe it or not, but Russia is the only country in the world America is afraid of, yes afraid.

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I beg to f--king differ.

[EvilsergE]

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking politics.

The fact that US government hides all the corruption and you all buy it makes it even worse.

[EvilsergE]

And with whom do you think China has been biggest allies with for the past 100 years? Who do you think allowed China to have all the military power it has now, who do you think have been supporting China with all the military supplies up until a year ago?

No other than Russia.

[shutupfatty]

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westpark wrote:

Yeah but Russia's so #### big & diverse ethnically I wonder if it could hold in one piece w/o a dictatorship? Look @ what happened to the Soviet Union. Most states that are that diverse tend not to last very long.

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I agree. Russia's main threat is not to the outside world, but to itself.

[shutupfatty]

meh. Putin's government is pragmatic and responsive, I'll give him that much, but it's based on economic growth wtihout development, capitalism without democracy, and great-power policies without international appeal. It's unsustainable.

[shutupfatty]

also, russia's ranked 142nd in the  press freedom index, while USA is 47th.

[Josey]

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desantoos wrote:

Okay, I've thought about this post for a long while and I still can't think of how this could be true. Putin's reign has no end in sight, unlike any US president since FDR (with which the rules were correctly changed to prevent what could have been a dictatorship). Even with the protests in Moscow right now the propaganda there is so tight that there is no chance Putin loses control for a least another decade?

This is just speculation on your part. Putin respected the law when it came to consecutive terms as president, stepping down to serve as prime minister. What dictator would do that?

Even at an all time low, his popularity is still above 50 percent. The protests are largely trumped up the western media and do not represent Russians at large. As you'll find with several past elections, many of the opposition candidates have ties with western powers or former oligarchs.

Has he been popular? At times, but you look across actual functioning democracies and you'll see that nobody lasts very long in power. The reason is that no single perspective or ideological slant is good enough for a large mass of people. Putin's power as a function of true success is even less plausible when you consider the lag of the counry behind much of the rest of the world.

If you make that argument, you can essentially say the US is a party dictatorship itself, with the media and government essentially dictating who the "real" candidates are. You're not even offering any examples where Russia is lagging, or in reality, where it has lagged but continues improving.

Also, this is total bull####. Look to much of the Middle East and you'll see Russia's influence. Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan. I'm not saying that the US hasn't done its fair job of #### up countries like Yemen and Libyia. I think we need to see a cross-the-board removal of people influencing awful dictators and terorist organizations and right now Russia is doing so and doing so quite often.

Also, I'm pretty sure Russia terrorized Georgia. Maybe RT News called it something different, but that's what it was.

Like a former poster said, Georgia terrorized Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which declared their independence from Georgia as soon as Georgia broke away from the Soviet Union in the early 90s. But even in that short war, Russia didn't destroy Georgia, nor did they even try for a regime change.

It wasn't total bull#### because Russia is not pushing its influence by invading countries. Your call for removing "people influencing awful dictators" is also silly considering it's been key to America's foreign policy since World War II. Same goes for terrorist organizations.  But the current difference between the US and Russia is that the US will intervene to keep its dictators in charge.

You're not offering any solid evidence that Russia is a dictatorship, you're just offering speculation with a lot of prejudice and very little basis.

[shutupfatty]

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Josey wrote:

This is just speculation on your part. Putin respected the law when it came to consecutive terms as president, stepping down to serve as prime minister. What dictator would do that. 

Putin is no despot, but lets not kid ourselves, he has no respect for the law. Remember last december's elections? When Putin's United Russia party didn't even receive more than 50% of the vote? Independent monitors, not the US media, say the actual figure is 15 to 20 percent lower. Exit polls in Moscow suggested he had won less than 30% support. Well, after a long delay the results came in at 46.5%. That reminds me of Stalin's favorite maxim: it's the counting, not the voting, that matters. In some regions Putin recieved more than 140% support. In Chechyna, he got 99.5%. 

You keep repeating how he stepped down. Hardly. His faithful lieutenant Medvedev took his place as Putin became prime minister. And that was only ever meant to be temporary, to keep up the illusion of legitimate government.

Even at an all time low, his popularity is still above 50 percent. The protests are largely trumped up the western media and do not represent Russians at large. As you'll find with several past elections, many of the opposition candidates have ties with western powers or former oligarchs.

It's below 50%...  And the coverage of Russian protests in the US is not very saturated. You make it sound like our corporate media has machinations to inject Russia with a destabilising toxin. They're too concerned with selling consumers to advertisers reeled in from sensational, bull#### stories. Oligarchs and former western powers threatening Russia's sovereignty? Sounds like Putin is looking for enemies on the outside to distract the public.

If you make that argument, you can essentially say the US is a party dictatorship itself, with the media and government essentially dictating who the "real" candidates are. You're not even offering any examples where Russia is lagging, or in reality, where it has lagged but continues improving.

You keep on coming back to the US. Yes, the moneyed interests in our government are extremely troubling. Limitless superpac campaign donations are warping the political debate. And post 911 security apparatus is a monstrosity. However, this thread isn't about our government. Stay on topic.

Like a former poster said, Georgia terrorized Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which declared their independence from Georgia as soon as Georgia broke away from the Soviet Union in the early 90s. But even in that short war, Russia didn't destroy Georgia, nor did they even try for a regime change.

What about Chechyna? Russia's rendered them an environmental wasteland. It's still one of the most land mine dense nations in the world. Don't they deserve their independence? They've been fighting for it for over a 100 years.

It wasn't total bull#### because Russia is not pushing its influence by invading countries. Your call for removing "people influencing awful dictators" is also silly considering it's been key to America's foreign policy since World War II. Same goes for terrorist organizations.  But the current difference between the US and Russia is that the US will intervene to keep its dictators in charge.

Lets not even go into postwar policy. Both the Americans and Russians viewed each other from a pretty hysterical lens.

You're right about recent history. America's post 9-11 foreign policy is pretty horrible. And god help us, the neoconservatives might push us into a war with Iran. At least that would be contrary to public opinion. Americans have soured on national building.

I don't think we're as cynical as you claim. We dropped our support for Murabak out of concern for being on the wrong side of history. And I don't see how you can suggest Russia doesn't prop up its friendly dictators. They've repeatedly blocked the UN from condeming Syria's bloody crackdown on the opposition. And this isn't some Western plot.. The Arab League has been the most vocal proponent of UN pressure. 

You're not offering any solid evidence that Russia is a dictatorship, you're just offering speculation with a lot of prejudice and very little basis.

It's not. Putin does not like to use violence to control people. I think money is his favorite tool. But It's not a democracy either. 

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[the_shotgun_rhetoric]

The China-Russia partnership is considerably overplayed. While they have definite ties politically and militarily they're not nearly as close as you might think.

[GARHUNT05]

but puting got a mountain named after him?