"Humans who lose the capacity to think become creatures whose existance has no value. Think! you humans who are split into two worlds. Unless you want that gulf between humans to expand into oblivian. You must think!" -Schwarzwald
Just a reminder, this is a spoiler free thread. Please respect the people who are still new to the show.
I had a hard time picking a quote for this act. Between act 15 and the exposive act 20-6 story arch I tend to glaze over this episode when analyzing the various archs but there's a lot of good stuff in here; nice Swartzy monologues, Roger searching for the truth, Alan Gabriel sexually charged power plays, the Leviathan's mysterious attraction to Dorothy, Alex playing up his god-complex, and Dastun's frustration with all the corporate beuracracy in the Paradigm Company. Fantastic character work, but there's nothing that really it all these things together. The leviathan is at the very least a poor attempt to connect these things but doesn't do a very good job of it. All the little character micro-plots are tied into the Leviathan but there's so many of them it's easy to loose track of them. Had Konaka been allowed to do the show the way he wanted the things we saw in this episode would probably have been spread acroos several episodes instead of clumped together like this.
I really love the Big O dub, it's the best I've seen. There are animes I just won't watch the dubb of if I can help it but everything about Big O's rocks. It occured to me while watching this episode that the reason the translation is so close to the original is probably because the dubbers only occasionally have to deal with lip flap. For example in the scene underground where Roger and Alex are going at it the camera is just wondering around on it's own accord, checking out the area. Even when the characters are shown often their mouths are not in the shot. But there are about three times in the series when the dubb makes me cringe. This episode has one of them. Alex's line 'It represents a symbol' makes me wince everytime. Represents a symbol? Maybe it's three years of heavy english and creative writing training but that's just painful. Even the sub says 'It's a symbol'. Ow, it burns!
Anywho! On a less painful subject. Did any one else think it was funny that there was a '4' above F- ::is gagged by Zopwx2 and ParadigmDog:: heh heh, I mean the white meagdeus? Those crazy animators! Did you notice the older Angel, Norman, Dorothy, and bum Roger? ^_^
Our next episode is act 18. Yea! It's 'The Greatest Villian'! Yea! It guest stars B- ::is gagged by Zopwx2 and ParadigmDog:: Eh heh ^_^; It's a hilarious episode. Somebody should be shot for the way Dorothy is drawn 
but it's a great little piece 
so I don't mind so much. Can't say as much for act 19 but Dorothy's going to be absolutely gorgeous from act 20 on so I'm okay.
-Dork
Message Edited by Dorks_wuv_Geeks on 02-16-2005 12:49 AM
A good character episode indeed.
While it does seem to lack an obvious point, unlike other episodes which have so eloquently had them, it was satisfying for the reasons Dork listed. I think the dialogue was quite good. Especially Alex.
On the picture: Googling Leviathan, to Wikipedia - Leviathan, to Wikipedia - Behemoth, showed me that the Schwarzwald pamphlet photo is a (slightly different) reproduction of a William Blake woodcut 'Behold now Behemoth which I made from thee' from some Book of Job illustrations. (That series also featuring the classic 'hi-res woodcut of Job blighted with boils'.)
If you extrapolate from the metaphor, I think that means that they are going to eat your suculent robot bits at the second coming, Big O! (Hah.)
I really liked Leviathan's attack, by the way. And the visible physics of buildings and Big O sliding down from gravity were well-done.
Alex said that he was born with the ability to pilot a Megadeus, unlike Roger. He seems to hint that Rogers abilities were implanted, and are somehow less genuine. BUT, the idea that Rosewater was born with the knowledge to pilot a Megadeus seems silly. His statement is sensible on an ego-inflating "I qualify to pilot a Big" level, since they may in fact "choose a pilot", but not on a "I know how to do it well" level. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Insane Speculation
What should one make of Schwarzwald's remarks about Leviathan where he says (roughly): "each person's desires, jealousies, and fears are small when alone... together becoming an enormous whole that will take shape," and also a bit about Leviathan as "a mirror"?
Is he speaking literally or metaphorically? This intrigues me because I don't think it can be explained why Megadeuses act on their own, or why they exist, or how they relate to Memories -- yet. I was going to 'go off' on a literalist Mage: The Ascension subjective reality idea, that the collective unconscious god-will of Paradigm City might be creating, attracting, or programming giant robots... (Haha, because Memory = Imagination, right?) But I realized there are simpler explanations.
I can find a more reasonable explanation of the statement from what was in that radioplay (thanks for the link last thread). It suggested that Megadeus's had their Memories erased 40 years ago, and so have an Identity crisis. So maybe Schwarzwald saw Leviathan as a mirror because it was looking for Memories. In this case, it invovled assimilating Dorothy. (Nooo!)
And now that I think of that, the subtle haggling between Alex/Roger/Schwarz about the 'purpose' of the Megadeuses makes more sense. Because of what happened 40 years ago, or because of a lack of new programming, a Megadeus might not be aware of its own purpose. And knowing their 'true nature' becomes important since, by all accounts, they probably destroyed the world.
I argue that they are weapons of destruction first and foremost, and 40 years ago they were quite sentient. Schwarz acknowledges that this is their true nature, and put Big Duo to that purpose. Alex is totally **bleep**, and sees a self-empowerment religious angle to them. And Roger seems to see them pragmatically as 'just tools' used my just or unjust people.
An idea at least. I'm still a little fuzzy about Schwarz's Leviathan comments. Maybe he was just talking about the old 'dark heart of man'. Maybe he means that everyone in PC wants to forget the whole idea of war and violence, and that's why they shy away from 'the past' and underground megadeuses.
Hmm. In a way, a Rosewaterian Angel/Demon heirarchy view of Megadei makes the most sense, just because of its simplicity. If you say that the Megadei are spitirual beings, possibly actually serving God, then their spotty self-determination makes more sense. (As now 'waking up' becomes a rare example of divine/infernal intervention.)
I'm sure I'll be contradicted as things become explained. But the word 'Beck' and 'next episode' puts me into a speculation panic. As that means to me I'm almost certain not to get any major plot advancement tomorrow, and thus for the rest of the week. 
I'll see. Sorry this was so long.
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Kelvena wrote:
These episodes are getting better each time. I think this episode is one of my favorites so far after hearing Schwarzwald. But I have a few things I need clearing up about Big O so far (please1) Why do they say the three robots are foreign?2) Why did Dorothy mumble fast (I can't remember why from the previous episode she did it in3) What was Angel saying about Schwarzwald to Roger in the end?
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