The Big O

[ghostrek]

i think Roger has a thing for Dorothy she is gynoid (female  Android)   how can you fall in love with  machine  dose even have lady parts and just in case thay want kids? pluse i thougth they had big bother/ litte sister tpye realtionship

[TheBigOFan72]

I'd think he has a thing for her as well, but just because she's not human, doesn't mean he can't fall in love with her. Also I doubt he would want kids though.

[Top_Gun]

Ghostrek, your words of wisdom never cease to inspire. :thumbsup:

[XenopusTex]

WTB better typing...

Roger does seem to have a thing for Dorothy.  And, that is where it gets complicated, and I'm not just talking about Droidophilia, or whatever sexual attraction to a 'Droid could be called.  I'm going to stick my neck out on this one and propose that R. Dorothy relates to an unobtainable desire in many ways.  There is obvious tension between Roger and R. Dorothy; yet there is no way to release it.  Note the monologue between Roger and R. Dorothy's inanimate body in "The Big Fight," about if she had been human.

I think the unattainable angle can be taken a step farther when looking at Ep. 14 "Roger the Wanderer."  Particularly the part where Dorothy gets out of the limo and meets somebody who looks like he could play center and both guard positions all by himself.  This also ties into the possibility that the Paradigm City in Ep. 14 was reality and that everything else is repeating delusions of grandeur.

[ghostrek]

you saying roger smith is mentaly ill 

[XenopusTex]

That is one hypothesis, yes.

I am not saying it is the correct or only one.  I am saying it fits some of the things going on in the series.

[Metatronda]

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ghostrek wrote:

i think Roger has a thing for Dorothy she is gynoid (female  Android)   how can you fall in love with  machine  dose even have lady parts and just in case thay want kids? pluse i thougth they had big bother/ litte sister tpye realtionship

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[mgangel1124]

I'm sure he could install a fleshlight in there.

[Metatronda]

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mgangel1124 wrote:
I'm sure he could install a fleshlight in there.

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[Top_Gun]

I like where this is going.

[Ranlsa]

I always felt that way too.

[nslay]

Act 14 never sat right with me. I had trouble discerning if it was the past, reality, or imagined.

The most confusing part is seeing a young Dr. Wayneright getting out of the car just after Dorothy.  Since Roger Smith is only 25, it's hard to believe he's in the past. He'd probably have to be considerably younger (or unborn) to have seen a young Dr. Wayneright.  If it's harsh reality, then how is it possible that he learned of Dr. Wayneright and Dorothy from Big Ear in his fantasy world?

[Top_Gun]

Act 14 really is a mind-bender, isn't it? I did a pretty big write-up on my thoughts about it, which is...somewhere buried in this folder.

[Ranlsa]

Big O is really Twin Peaks-ish isn't it?

[XenopusTex]

There are a few ways of looking at that episode:

1) Roger is a character in a storyline directed by Angel, and attempts to "escape" into another storyline.

2) Ep. 14 represents the real condition of Roger Smith, and the other stuff is his fantasy/hallucinations.

3) Ep. 14 represents the beginning of the degradation/corruption of data in continuous cycling simulation program designed to keep the legacy of humanity alive after a serious your-arse-here type cataclysm. (note Ep.25 dialogue between Gordon Rosewater and Angel/Roger/Vera ... also note the condition of Gordon at the time).

4) A confused clash of storylines compiled by "Angel" who doesn't deal well with life outside her "holodeck" fantasy.  (note the dialogue between "Roger" and "Angel" near the end of Ep 26).

5) Similar to #3 and #4, but from the perspective of "Angel" being the person who caused the annihilation, and her tried to recreate the world she destroyed by some action.

6) I can't remember the exact name of the "theory," but the idea that infinite alternate universes exist.

7) The idea that maybe time isn't as straightforward and linear as was thought.

Try reading parts of the Leviathan.  Just might get some insight into the storyline I think.

Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations hath diverse names -T. Hobbes (Leviathan)

[ghostrek]

ghostrek's theory it just a mind-f#ck like in Neon Genesis Evangelion: Death and Rebirth and The End of Evangelion

some time writers or actor like doing that from time because fan-feed  back is so f#cking  annoying great  example

is  the death of spock in startrek 2: wrath of khan (1982)

[Ranlsa]

Hmm...not bad, Not bad at all.MY own theory about the srious is that Angel is just that- an Angel from Heaven (which explains the marks on her back- those are whre her wings were) but she, like the others, were caught up in the event and her memnories were wiped out as well as her wings, which dropped off,. The villans who somehow regained their memories know she's an angel, and as a result has the power to restore the world to what it once was. Which is why the posed as her parents, filled her with fake memories, and told her she was  an agent fromtheir group.

The old man finally decides he can;t lie to her anymore and tries to tell her the truth but the **grok** with the whip and his son prevented him from doing so. But in the last ep he finslly helps her see what she is and her powers and what she does is rrestore the world to what it was before.

That'smy theory anyway, take it how you will.

[nslay]

I have trouble with (2), but it's possible. I think it's some linear combination of these ...

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that quote. I think imagination and memory are related, but I also think you need to provide your mind with entropy to make good use of imagination. For example, a book worm isn't necessarily imaginative despite the wealth of information he/she posses. Take that same book worm and expose him/her to a variety of experiences ... even as mundane as listening to music or reading a book.

How else can you expect to create anything new purely from what is known? You have to take that memory and think differently about it than 6 billion other people in the world ...

[XenopusTex]

Hmmm... I guess AS bleeps out (female dogs) with whips

Have you read the chapter in Leviathan it comes from?

Here's another possibility based on what we learn from Ep. 25.  What if... Gordon Rosewater the representation of whatever, maybe an AI,  is running a simulation?  He "lives" separate and apart from rest.  Notice that by Ep. 25, as the "world" is going **grok** and falling apart, Gordon is reduced to a feeble old man who can do nothing but try to consume his creations... i.e. eating the "tomato" stew to repair and renew.

[Ranlsa]

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XenopusTex wrote:

Hmmm... I guess AS bleeps out (female dogs) with whips

Have you read the chapter in Leviathan it comes from?

Here's another possibility based on what we learn from Ep. 25.  What if... Gordon Rosewater the representation of whatever, maybe an AI,  is running a simulation?  He "lives" separate and apart from rest.  Notice that by Ep. 25, as the "world" is going **grok** and falling apart, Gordon is reduced to a feeble old man who can do nothing but try to consume his creations... i.e. eating the "tomato" stew to repair and renew.

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Hmm...that'sanother theory.But then how do you explain the marks on Angel's back? Or the fact that it seems like only she can fix everything? (in my theory Roger gives Dorothy that speech cause he doesn't realise what's happening and that she's restoring the world to what it was before.

[Kobun20]

I'm sure we could all think of a lot of things Roger and Dorothy could do to relieve that tension, even if she doesn't have all the "right parts." But the biggest hindrance to that is probably Roger himself, who takes so much time to come to grips with it and figure out how he feels about her (and possibly because he lacks the internet gynoid subculture that we have access to for "ideas"). No theory that ep 14 was just a hallucinatory state from Roger's exertion, blood loss, and lack of food in episode 13? Or that they were some of the memories which had been placed into him when he was a barcode child, rising up again and wreaking some transitory havoc on his psyche as it may have with RD's other victims? I also like the idea that world director Angel switched the stage subconsciously out of her frustration with where the narrative was going, that Roger was the only one who was somehow unaffected, and his refusal to take his new role seriously and his determination to keep playing Roger Smith was what brought the world of Big O back. Maybe I'll have to re-read the old threads, sounds like I missed out on some good times.

[nslay]

No, I have not read that chapter or that book.

Maybe. His tomato analogies are tricky to understand (at least for me).

But Gordon hired Roger Smith to negotiate with whatever runs the show (maybe Angel?). If he was really running the show, then he'd have no reason to hire Roger Smith.

I think there is something to everything you suggested. It's just complicated to piece it all together (at least for me).

The thought of Angel in charge of anything profound sure slipped my mind. But she is obviously important in the last act.

[XenopusTex]

I guess AS also bleeps out the term for certain tree fruits

Could look at that as Angel being an outside presence.  Note that the Soviet chunk of space debris falling from above was called an "Angel."  Even Alex didn't really know what it was.  Perhaps one, in this theory, could look at "Angel" as the programmer.

[Ranlsa]

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nslay wrote:

No, I have not read that chapter or that book.

Maybe. His tomato analogies are tricky to understand (at least for me).

But Gordon hired Roger Smith to negotiate with whatever runs the show (maybe Angel?). If he was really running the show, then he'd have no reason to hire Roger Smith.

I think there is something to everything you suggested. It's just complicated to piece it all together (at least for me).

The thought of Angel in charge of anything profound sure slipped my mind. But she is obviously important in the last act.

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Well in my theory Angel isn't in charge of anything, but being a real abngelfrom Heaven she has the powr to change. You see in the last ep as she;s goung to the computer things that look like wings sprout from the marks on her back.I think Gordon and his accomplice knew that and that's why they decieved her to keep her in the dark about what she really was,and the one he wanted Roger to negotiate with was that woman and his son, cause he wanted to tell Angel the truth, and they wanted to still keep it from her.

[greenleaf]

I think you misunderstand the relationship they have.Even if it were to develop to something more, anything is possible,don't you think?